Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: I like Halo 4, but Reach was the pinnacle of Halo.
  • Subject: I like Halo 4, but Reach was the pinnacle of Halo.
Subject: I like Halo 4, but Reach was the pinnacle of Halo.

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

Posted by: Pahat Pojat
Posted by: flamedude
I have no idea how you managed to rank H3 as the worst Halo. H2 has a terrible Campaign, H4 has the worst multiplayer. H3 is, for me, probably the best all-around Halo game of them all.

What's so good about Halo 3? The campaign was pretty bad (it was short, very easy and easily the worst storyline after Reach) It's multiplayer was far worse than Halo: CE's or Halo 2's in any area I can think of.


Well the multiplayer is well balanced, the equipment doesn't adversely affect the gameplay (one use only is great), the maps are very well designed. Custom game options are excellent and Forge was ground-breaking. Map DLC like Rats Nest and Sandbox were amazing too. Oh and there is Assault.

Also the Campaign was fun. Fighting a Scarab with 3 Scorpions? Not bad.

My only issue with the entirety of H3 multiplayer is that the Spartan Laser single-handedly ruins vehicle combat.

I would agree that H3 has a "worse" multiplayer than H1 or H2, but really this is like comparing works of art and saying which one is better. Good is good no matter what way you slice it. All I would say is Halo 3 is not as good as H1 or H2 multiplayer, its the wording see?

For me H4 has the most boring rinse-repeat Campaign of any Halo game, even more boring (but less frustrating) than the H2 Campaign. It's multiplayer is, and I'm sorry for the cliche, the least-Halo like Halo game I've ever played and is rife with problems, bugs, issues and a lack of energy and charisma.

  • 12.22.2012 1:47 PM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R
What house has a rocket pod, has legs, and has a long narrow barrel that probably shoots something powerful?

Sounds like you're describing the lower half of my body, actually.

Posted by: Soul drinker108
And finally, I just feel like Bungie and the community werent as involved with Reach. I had WAY better forge and custom memories from 3 than from Reach.

Bungie was just as involved with Reach as the other past games. They would bring out BWU every week and the community was involved. You must have never been on this site during the Reach times because I can tell. They would make matchmaking tweaks every so often due to community feedback.

[Edited on 12.22.2012 1:56 PM PST]

  • 12.22.2012 1:54 PM PDT

Reach was pretty good. What I miss most about halo was not having sprint though. Like valhalla felt fine in 3 but in 4 it feels like a small map since I can just sprint. The sprint really took away the "Large" feeling of maps.

  • 12.22.2012 1:55 PM PDT

Formerly darkbrute (no I was not perma-banned.)

Posted by: Bradllez
Members here dont get banned.

They just go missing in action.

No.

  • 12.22.2012 1:56 PM PDT

The sublime is disappointingly elusive.

Reach was my favorite, but I'm afraid Halo 4 has to be my least favorite out of the entire series.

Not counting Halo Wars because that just doesn't count.

[Edited on 12.22.2012 1:57 PM PST]

  • 12.22.2012 1:57 PM PDT

Formerly darkbrute (no I was not perma-banned.)

Posted by: Bradllez
Members here dont get banned.

They just go missing in action.

My problem with Reach is that I was way too hyped for that game. Don't get me wrong, Bungie did go out with a bang. But for me personally I didn't see it as the best of the series.

  • 12.22.2012 1:57 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R
Posted by: Soul drinker108
And finally, I just feel like Bungie and the community werent as involved with Reach. I had WAY better forge and custom memories from 3 than from Reach.

Bungie was just as involved with Reach as the other past games. They would bring out BWU every week and the community was involved. You must have never been on this site during the Reach times because I can tell. They would make matchmaking tweaks every so often due to community feedback.


People can have whatever opinions they want about Reach but they cannot say Bungie was not involved with Reach. They were heavily involved with the Community and listened to us. It's much more than what can be said about 343 and Halo 4.

  • 12.22.2012 1:57 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Aang the Avatar

Posted by: Flood Emperor
10/10 trolling.

Lol at all these retards responding


The only one looking "retarded" right now is you, because you don't know what trolling is.
Keep going, This thread is entertaining me.

  • 12.22.2012 1:59 PM PDT

Reach definitely had the best engineering / networking, but I feel it fell short in many other areas.

In general, the campaign failed to capture the true feeling of a planetary invasion. The beginning of the 4th Mission was the only time I felt like I was in the middle of a planetary battlefield, everything else felt rather lonely and isolated. The story of the campaign suffered because of the fact that The Fall of Reach wasn't written to sustain a videogame story that would come out ten years after the book was written. It's difficult to balance the need to have an interesting videogame story and to obey canon when you shot yourself in the foot ten years previously, so I can't blame Bungie too much in that regard, with better planning they can avoid problems like that with their next intellectual property.

Multiplayer was soured and mediocre for many of the reasons people have no doubt brought up in the thread, but the custom game options and forge are definitely top notch, and only the core mechanics of the game get in the way of them truly shining.

  • 12.22.2012 1:59 PM PDT


Posted by: Pahat Pojat

Posted by: AK FROST

Posted by: Pahat Pojat

Posted by: flamedude
I have no idea how you managed to rank H3 as the worst Halo. H2 has a terrible Campaign, H4 has the worst multiplayer. H3 is, for me, probably the best all-around Halo game of them all.

What's so good about Halo 3? The campaign was pretty bad (it was short, very easy and easily the worst storyline after Reach) It's multiplayer was far worse than Halo: CE's or Halo 2's in any area I can think of.
I can name tons of things minus the spread br. Button combos.

Like what? Better maps? lol. Better movement or strafe? lol. More skill? lol. Better custom games? lol.
lol it was a newer game on a better system it was smoother maps were better
IMO. Gameplay felt right and it wasn't a glitch feat involving button combos like quad shotting and Bxr all game. The ranking system worked
Much better than halo 2 40 plus was cheaters only.

  • 12.22.2012 2:00 PM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R
What house has a rocket pod, has legs, and has a long narrow barrel that probably shoots something powerful?

Sounds like you're describing the lower half of my body, actually.


Posted by: AK FROST
Reach had broken elements like bloom

I want to talk about this for a second. Bloom was made because of feedback from the br spread from Halo 3. The BR spread was just as random as bloom. Except it gets love?

Bungie wanted the player to be in control of whether or not they want to shoot straight or all over the place. Remember the BR spread was just as random as bloom. No one can deny it. It was a coin flip.

  • 12.22.2012 2:01 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: AK FROST

Posted by: Pahat Pojat

Posted by: AK FROST

Posted by: Pahat Pojat

Posted by: flamedude
I have no idea how you managed to rank H3 as the worst Halo. H2 has a terrible Campaign, H4 has the worst multiplayer. H3 is, for me, probably the best all-around Halo game of them all.

What's so good about Halo 3? The campaign was pretty bad (it was short, very easy and easily the worst storyline after Reach) It's multiplayer was far worse than Halo: CE's or Halo 2's in any area I can think of.
I can name tons of things minus the spread br. Button combos.

Like what? Better maps? lol. Better movement or strafe? lol. More skill? lol. Better custom games? lol.
lol it was a newer game on a better system it was smoother maps were better
IMO. Gameplay felt right and it wasn't a glitch feat involving button combos like quad shotting and Bxr all game. The ranking system worked
Much better than halo 2 40 plus was cheaters only.


LMAO with every post your grammar seems to be falling apart even more. Getting a little to enraged by the topic I see.

  • 12.22.2012 2:03 PM PDT

This world wants to drag you down... And the weight, that guilt they want to hang around your neck, you don’t have to carry it one more step. You think they won’t let you rest, but it’s not up to them. It never was.

I just played Reach earlier today. I still enjoy the game, but man that bloom. It's not as intrusive in Halo 4 and TU Reach, but in vanilla Reach it's so bad. I'm not sure why anyone dislikes the TU considering all the points of contention (e.g. bleedthrough) were dealt with. It only improves the game.

  • 12.22.2012 2:03 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I do not want to stop asking. I do not ask to stop wanting.


Posted by: the omega man117

Posted by: Gaara444
Reach? That's a funny way of typing Halo 2.


Halo 2 was utter garbage. Reach wasn't considerably better though.

Halo CE is still the most challenging, balanced, and longest Halo game.


Words cannot describe how much I absolutely love you.

IMO:

Campaign Story:

4>CE>=ODST>=2>3>Reach (>= means greater than or equal to)

Campaign Level Design:

CE>2>3>ODST>Reach>4 (Though 4 did the large scale battles almost as well as Halo 3)

Core Gameplay:

CE>ODST>4>3>2>=Reach (I'd put 3 in front of 4, but lolBRspread is preventing me from it)

Multiplayer:

CE>lolallotherHalomultiplayers (Every other Halo was a complete failure multiplayer wise)

  • 12.22.2012 2:04 PM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R
What house has a rocket pod, has legs, and has a long narrow barrel that probably shoots something powerful?

Sounds like you're describing the lower half of my body, actually.


Posted by: ToastyWaffles
I just played Reach earlier today. I still enjoy the game, but man that bloom. It's not as intrusive in Halo 4 and TU Reach, but in vanilla Reach it's so bad. I'm not sure why anyone dislikes the TU considering all the points of contention (e.g. bleedthrough) were dealt with. It only improves the game.

I think 343 should put bleedthrough in all of the playlists in Reach. It logically makes sense than it not being in there.

  • 12.22.2012 2:05 PM PDT


Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R

Posted by: AK FROST
Reach had broken elements like bloom

I want to talk about this for a second. Bloom was made because of feedback from the br spread from Halo 3. The BR spread was just as random as bloom. Except it gets love?

Bungie wanted the player to be in control of whether or not they want to shoot straight or all over the place. Remember the BR spread was just as random as bloom. No one can deny it. It was a coin flip.
back up I never praised bullet spread, hits can in halo 2 worked. So why change what wasn't broken then make it worse with bloom?

  • 12.22.2012 2:05 PM PDT

Reach was amazing. People just nitpick at the stupidest things and then justify it as constructive criticism or say that it breaks the game.

  • 12.22.2012 2:06 PM PDT



Posted by: Pahat Pojat

Posted by: AK FROST

Posted by: Pahat Pojat

Posted by: flamedude
I have no idea how you managed to rank H3 as the worst Halo. H2 has a terrible Campaign, H4 has the worst multiplayer. H3 is, for me, probably the best all-around Halo game of them all.[/quote]
What's so good about Halo 3? The campaign was pretty bad (it was short, very easy and easily the worst storyline after Reach) It's multiplayer was far worse than Halo: CE's or Halo 2's in any area I can think of.[/quote] I can name tons of things minus the spread br. Button combos.

Like what? Better maps? lol. Better movement or strafe? lol. More skill? lol. Better custom games? lol.
lol it was a newer game on a better system it was smoother maps were better
IMO. Gameplay felt right and it wasn't a glitch feat involving button combos like quad shotting and Bxr all game. The ranking system worked
Much better than halo 2 40 plus was cheaters only.


LMAO with every post your grammar seems to be falling apart even more. Getting a little to enraged by the topic I see.
I'm on an iPhone so my grammar will always be bad. Lol at you grammar checking me because you have nOthing else. Try harder.

  • 12.22.2012 2:07 PM PDT


Posted by: Zantaniann
Reach was amazing. People just nitpick at the stupidest things and then justify it as constructive criticism or say that it breaks the game.
No bloom was random and connection dependent like bullet spread you can't argue fact.

  • 12.22.2012 2:07 PM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R
What house has a rocket pod, has legs, and has a long narrow barrel that probably shoots something powerful?

Sounds like you're describing the lower half of my body, actually.


Posted by: AK FROST

Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R

Posted by: AK FROST
Reach had broken elements like bloom

I want to talk about this for a second. Bloom was made because of feedback from the br spread from Halo 3. The BR spread was just as random as bloom. Except it gets love?

Bungie wanted the player to be in control of whether or not they want to shoot straight or all over the place. Remember the BR spread was just as random as bloom. No one can deny it. It was a coin flip.
back up I never praised bullet spread, hits can in halo 2 worked. So why change what wasn't broken then make it worse with bloom?

It was broken. Are you denying that it was? Spread only worked in Halo 2 because of the bulletmagnetism and giant hitboxes. It didn't matter where you aimed in Halo 2 because the spread would instantly curve to the enemy player. Halo 3 didn't have a good hitscan.

  • 12.22.2012 2:09 PM PDT

Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R
Posted by: AK FROST
Reach had broken elements like bloom

I want to talk about this for a second. Bloom was made because of feedback from the br spread from Halo 3. The BR spread was just as random as bloom. Except it gets love?

Bungie wanted the player to be in control of whether or not they want to shoot straight or all over the place. Remember the BR spread was just as random as bloom. No one can deny it. It was a coin flip.
There's a difference between the BR Spread and the DMR Bloom though.

First and foremost, tt doesn't matter how fast or how slow you fired your BR, your bullets always behaved the exact same way:In Halo 3, each bullet from the Battle Rifle's three-round burst is networked individually under the cases outlined above. Additionally, each bullet has a different margin of error, with the first round from the Battle Rifle being the most accurate of the three bullets. The first bullet can have an error between 0 and .15 degrees off of the true aiming vector. The third bullet is between 0 and 0.38 degrees, the second bullet falls somewhere between the first and third. It is a mistake to look at where the third bullet lands and assume all three bullets are that inaccurate. The outliers (0.15 on bullet 1 and 0.38 on bullet 3) are the absolute worst-case scenarios. In that context those numbers don't mean a whole lot but in the grand scheme thing of how the Battle Rifle operates, they are pretty meaningful.Second, the angle at which your bullets veered off course was never greater than a fourth of a degree, which made combat at close to medium range consistant, and really only impacted the BR at long range combat, which fit the weapon snugly into it's medium range role.

The problem with the DMR is that your accuracy was directly tied to how fast you were firing the weapon. Ironically, unlike BR Spread, this does absolutely nothing to lower the power level of the DMR in long range combat, because the optimal strategy is to pace your shots to remain as accurate as possible. So in long range combat, a DMR with Bloom is really no different than a DMR with a set firing rate equal to the rate at which you would pace the DMR with Bloom.

All Bloom does is make medium and especially close range combat inconsistant and frustrating. Because accuracy here doesn't matter nearly as much save for the final headshot, the optimal strategy is to spam your DMR to break shields faster than your opponent can. However, the angle at which your bullets can veer when you are spamming your gun is definitely greater than 1% if you are fighting at medium to close range, so you could definitely say that DMR Bloom is far more drastic of an affect than BR Spread because it affects you the most at the ranges at which the gun is supposed to fire.

Tying your accuracy to your firing rate is an added level of complexity, not depth. It only serves to make combat at medium to close range inconsistant, and there's no better way to frustrate your players by making his actions inconsistant. BR Spread is random, yes, but it is only consistantly random at long range. DMR Bloom is random, but it affects your weapon at the ranges at which the gun is supposed to operate.

A little rambly, but does that make sense?

  • 12.22.2012 2:19 PM PDT

Ah come on, how could everyone hate Reach when a blast was to be had playing custom games on forge world maps? I still remember AM Puzzle and eating milk & cookies while a full party of players were working together to solve the puzzle; only inching forward with difficulty. It was like watching an exciting excavation taking place and I wasn't helping at all.

Then I go out and forge a remake of The Door (a map originally forged in Halo 3 based on a short story I wrote) in which the player has to release two locks to open a door to the next area and win the game. How to open these locks was up to your wits. One room had six slots in the floor that you could jump into but you actually needed to find a mongoose hidden in the ceiling and ride into the correct hole as marked by a map on the wall. This worked because a teliporter doesn't teliport vehicles unless you tell it to so only one hole didn't teliport vehicles while every hole teliported players.

The map isn't on my file share so don't bother looking. You'd have to ask me to show you in-game and I don't really feel like firing up Reach after abbandoning the game for so long. It just goes to show how much fun alot of people overlooked. You say LOLZ REACH IS TEH SUX0RS but you never gave the game a chance to begin with. As for me I never complained about Reach. I played it and had fun.

  • 12.22.2012 2:21 PM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R
What house has a rocket pod, has legs, and has a long narrow barrel that probably shoots something powerful?

Sounds like you're describing the lower half of my body, actually.

Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R
Posted by: AK FROST
Reach had broken elements like bloom

I want to talk about this for a second. Bloom was made because of feedback from the br spread from Halo 3. The BR spread was just as random as bloom. Except it gets love?

Bungie wanted the player to be in control of whether or not they want to shoot straight or all over the place. Remember the BR spread was just as random as bloom. No one can deny it. It was a coin flip.
There's a difference between the BR Spread and the DMR Bloom though.

First and foremost, tt doesn't matter how fast or how slow you fired your BR, your bullets always behaved the exact same way:In Halo 3, each bullet from the Battle Rifle's three-round burst is networked individually under the cases outlined above. Additionally, each bullet has a different margin of error, with the first round from the Battle Rifle being the most accurate of the three bullets. The first bullet can have an error between 0 and .15 degrees off of the true aiming vector. The third bullet is between 0 and 0.38 degrees, the second bullet falls somewhere between the first and third. It is a mistake to look at where the third bullet lands and assume all three bullets are that inaccurate. The outliers (0.15 on bullet 1 and 0.38 on bullet 3) are the absolute worst-case scenarios. In that context those numbers don't mean a whole lot but in the grand scheme thing of how the Battle Rifle operates, they are pretty meaningful.Second, the angle at which your bullets veered off course was never greater than a fourth of a degree, which made combat at close to medium range consistant, and really only impacted the BR at long range combat, which fit the weapon snugly into it's medium range role.

The problem with the DMR is that your accuracy was directly tied to how fast you were firing the weapon. Ironically, unlike BR Spread, this does absolutely nothing to lower the power level of the DMR in long range combat, because the optimal strategy is to pace your shots to remain as accurate as possible. So in long range combat, a DMR with Bloom is really no different than a DMR with a set firing rate equal to the rate at which you would pace the DMR with Bloom.

All Bloom does is make medium and especially close range combat inconsistant and frustrating. Because accuracy here doesn't matter nearly as much save for the final headshot, the optimal strategy is to spam your DMR to break shields faster than your opponent can. However, the angle at which your bullets can veer when you are spamming your gun is definitely greater than 1% if you are fighting at medium to close range, so you could definitely say that DMR Bloom is far more drastic of an affect than BR Spread because it affects you the most at the ranges at which the gun is supposed to fire.

Tying your accuracy to your firing rate is an added level of complexity, not depth. It only serves to make combat at medium to close range inconsistant, and there's no better way to frustrate your players by making his actions inconsistant. BR Spread is random, yes, but it is only consistantly random at long range. DMR Bloom is random, but it affects your weapon at the ranges at which the gun is supposed to operate.

A little rambly, but does that make sense?

Yes it does.

Posted by: DarkSpyda04
The only reason I have less game of customs for Reach is because my buttface friends wanted to only play one gametype constantly. It was a special gametype that could only be made in Reach. I got to play fat kid which was a lot more fun in Reach than Halo 3. For me.

[Edited on 12.22.2012 2:33 PM PST]

  • 12.22.2012 2:26 PM PDT

Posted by: DarkSpyda04
As for me I never complained about Reach. I played it and had fun.
Plenty of us played Reach and had some amount of fun, yours is not a special case. However, plenty of us saw flaws or obvious problems with the game that held the game back from it's true potential, and we have absolutely no problem with calling the game out on those problems. Criticism is how games improve, it is a process that is done internally every single day by developers. Computer Science at it's core is problem solving afterall, and being able to find those problems and come up with solutions is something that passionate gamers should be able to do.

Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R
Yes it does.
Yay!

[Edited on 12.22.2012 2:27 PM PST]

  • 12.22.2012 2:27 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

You seem to be judging halo reach on the amount of content it has.

  • 12.22.2012 2:36 PM PDT