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Subject: So many plot holes in the Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey


Posted by: Aang the Avatar

Posted by: hammy111
Wow just wow... Read the bloody books man!


*Facepalm*

*Facenuke*

  • 12.24.2012 3:02 PM PDT


Posted by: Mr Reaganomics
Oh hey, there is Erebor off in the distance! Instead of taking you there, let us drop you all off on this massive vertical rock that will be extremely difficult for you to get off of.


Well in the book...alright I'll stop.

[Edited on 12.24.2012 3:03 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2012 3:03 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: M4L1K jr
So, let me get this straight. You went to the cinema expecting the movie to explain every piece of lore? That would only extend the length of the film. I'm not sitting my ass in a cinema waiting for a possibly six hour movie to finish, I've got better things to do.
Well that's the problem isn't it?

They can explain things, and make an already unfocused and padded movie even more so, damaging it further. Alternatively, they can leave it as it was and let it raise questions like the OP's. Either way, it can be damaging to the movie, rock and a hard place.

  • 12.24.2012 3:04 PM PDT

"I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle- victorious"

Posted by: Forever MS

Posted by: M4L1K jr
Posted by: Forever MS

Posted by: M4L1K jr
Why can't people like you understand that the Eagles have their own -blam!- to do. The eagles actually have a king as well. The king eagle decides whether or not they should aid a cause. Also, the only reason why the eagles helped Gandalf was because both Gandalf and the eagles are Maiar.


Tell me when this was explained in the movie?

If you noticed, the title of this thread is "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" plot holes. I am talking about the movie plot holes.


So, let me get this straight. You went to the cinema expecting the movie to explain every piece of lore? That would only extend the length of the film. I'm not sitting my ass in a cinema waiting for a possibly six hour movie to finish, I've got better things to do.


No they don't have to explain every piece of lore they should have given a short explanation for things that currently don't make sense IN THE MOVIE.


These "short explanations" for the plot holes would only, yet again, extend the movie. These "short explanations" would also confuse the viewer. The average lotr fan/ normal person wouldn't have any knowledge about the lore. For a proper understanding or explanation of these so called plot holes, a detailed/ lengthy scene would be needed. Peter Jackson would have to delve deep into the story so the average viewer can understand the movie. And you would probably complain about the scene being too long.

  • 12.24.2012 3:16 PM PDT


Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: M4L1K jr
So, let me get this straight. You went to the cinema expecting the movie to explain every piece of lore? That would only extend the length of the film. I'm not sitting my ass in a cinema waiting for a possibly six hour movie to finish, I've got better things to do.
Well that's the problem isn't it?

They can explain things, and make an already unfocused and padded movie even more so, damaging it further. Alternatively, they can leave it as it was and let it raise questions like the OP's. Either way, it can be damaging to the movie, rock and a hard place.


Most people were able to accept that some things were left unanswered though.

  • 12.24.2012 3:17 PM PDT

Break down, every single one of you.


Posted by: Forever MS

Posted by: xAT 117x

Posted by: Forever MS
I am dying of laughter from all you dummies who think reading a book is a requirement to understand the movie.

Stay intelligent Flood.


And I'm literally amazed how you seem to deem not reading a book a sign of intelligence.

If you are not intelligent enough to spot plot holes and move past them realising that it would make for a boring story without them, then I would advise you refrain from spouting your nonsense.


Did all of you somehow miss one of the only actual intelligent posts in this thread?

"The books and the movie are two separate things. If an adaptation can't stand on its own then it fails, in any medium."
However, Middle-Earth has a very rich and detailed history. In books, authors can take the time to explain the history and why everything happens. In movies, it is very hard to do without boring the audience since explaining such things could take an extra 15 minutes of almost pure dialogue.

For example, the wizards are Valar. The Valar are spirit creatures created by the god before the creation of the world. A while after the world was created and the Enemy made his way to Middle-Earth, five of the Valar (the wizards) were sent to aid and guide the races against the enemy. However, they were instructed to not use force to oppose the enemy. Basically, there restricted to only guide the races in their efforts. That is why Gandalf only acts himself when he absolutely needs to.

As to the Hobbits, they can be valiant, but they have lived for hundreds of years in almost absolute peace. That tends to make people go soft. It is also said in the books that they have slow building courage. So it takes them a while to gather their will in battle. AS for pickpocketing the trolls, Biblo only did that because they would have been unable to travel quickly without them. It was necessary.

Now to the Eagles. The Eagles are proud and noble. The leader of the Eagles eventually becomes the king of all birds. They are not in the business of ferrying people around. They only reason they carried the dwarves at all is because they were in the area and it was Gandalf, and because of who he was, that called for their aid. Had it been anyone else, they would not have come. Also, they hate goblins and orcs. Anything that would anger the orcs was worth doing to them.

Now what I have said is a very brief overview of of these subjects. Imagine having to take the time in the movie to explain all of the and keep the audiences. It would take a while and would be hard to do. Tolkien didn't even include all this information in th LoTR or the Hobbit. The history of Middle-Earth had to be gathered posthumously by Tolkein's son in the book The Silmarillion. That is why you saw these "plot holes." Because they couldn't take the time in the movie to explain everything.

[Edited on 12.24.2012 3:19 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2012 3:17 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: Technoxious
Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: M4L1K jr
So, let me get this straight. You went to the cinema expecting the movie to explain every piece of lore? That would only extend the length of the film. I'm not sitting my ass in a cinema waiting for a possibly six hour movie to finish, I've got better things to do.
Well that's the problem isn't it?

They can explain things, and make an already unfocused and padded movie even more so, damaging it further. Alternatively, they can leave it as it was and let it raise questions like the OP's. Either way, it can be damaging to the movie, rock and a hard place.

Most people were able to accept that some things were left unanswered though.
Which is why they chose to take that direction.

  • 12.24.2012 3:17 PM PDT

"I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle- victorious"

Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: M4L1K jr
So, let me get this straight. You went to the cinema expecting the movie to explain every piece of lore? That would only extend the length of the film. I'm not sitting my ass in a cinema waiting for a possibly six hour movie to finish, I've got better things to do.
Well that's the problem isn't it?

They can explain things, and make an already unfocused and padded movie even more so, damaging it further. Alternatively, they can leave it as it was and let it raise questions like the OP's. Either way, it can be damaging to the movie, rock and a hard place.


Well your post is pretty interesting. If PJ were to explain the plot holes in the movie, it would damage the movie further. This wouldn't help the movie in any way. So let me ask you FS, would you be happy with a more -blam!-ier movie?

  • 12.24.2012 3:20 PM PDT

Why did the trolls talk, why as in LOTR they were bigger and animalistic and never talked?

  • 12.24.2012 3:25 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: AK FROST

Posted by: Mr Reaganomics
Oh hey, there is Erebor off in the distance! Instead of taking you there, let us drop you all off on this massive vertical rock that will be extremely difficult for you to get off of.
lmao this.


You want to risk that a near indestructible dragon will burn the eagles into chicken dips?

  • 12.24.2012 3:25 PM PDT

"It is the cruelest fate, to have written words that meant well and see them made wicked and unwise. What was meant to encourage life, used instead to justify taking it."


Posted by: Alfdog
Why did the trolls talk, why as in LOTR they were bigger and animalistic and never talked?

Trolls under orc control are bred to be mindless killing machines, speaking little if at all. Ironically, wild trolls are capable of communication despite their poor intelligence.

  • 12.24.2012 3:27 PM PDT

Break down, every single one of you.


Posted by: Alfdog
Why did the trolls talk, why as in LOTR they were bigger and animalistic and never talked?
The Hobbit was written well before The Lord of the Rings and was a children's book. It was only after Tolkien stated writing the The Lord of the Rings that he decided to turn it into an epic. So some things like talking trolls were in the Hobbit, but dropped in the LotR. Also, maybe they were a different breed of trolls?


Posted by: DngerlyAwkwrd
Trolls under orc control are bred to be mindless killing machines, speaking little if at all. Ironically, wild trolls are capable of communication despite their poor intelligence.
Or this. This works too.

[Edited on 12.24.2012 3:31 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2012 3:29 PM PDT

"I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle- victorious"

Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: AK FROST

Posted by: Mr Reaganomics
Oh hey, there is Erebor off in the distance! Instead of taking you there, let us drop you all off on this massive vertical rock that will be extremely difficult for you to get off of.
lmao this.


You want to risk that a near indestructible dragon will burn the eagles into chicken dips?



Most people don't understand Smaug's power.

  • 12.24.2012 3:30 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

Also, people should realise that the hobbit was written before the LOTR books.

  • 12.24.2012 3:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: hotshot revan II
Also, people should realise that the hobbit was written before the LOTR books.


How is that relevant in any way shape or form?

  • 12.24.2012 3:38 PM PDT
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"Read the books" -The Flood

  • 12.24.2012 3:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Forever MS

Posted by: hotshot revan II
Also, people should realise that the hobbit was written before the LOTR books.


How is that relevant in any way shape or form?


Read the books bk

  • 12.24.2012 3:49 PM PDT

"It will take many bad things to ruin your day, but it only takes one good thing to make it."

"We have a bond that's stronger than any sports team or extra curricular group on campus........combined. This band is our family."

"Tis but the journey, not the destination."

"And that's my contingency plan. Well, it wouldn't be considered 'contingency' if it happens more than half the time..."

Because the books.

  • 12.24.2012 4:12 PM PDT

The Eagles thing is explained in the book. BUT WAIT! If the scenes at their Eyrie were in the movie people would complain that A)Eagles are speaking like people, this is stupid or B) this is padding to make the movie longer. There is no pleasing people. If everything was in the movie, and I do mean EVERYTHING then people would complain about the length and "boring" parts. If the film maker picks and chooses what is and isn't in the movie then people will complain because its A) Not faithful to the source material or B) there are "plot holes" like the ones OP mentions. The problem that OP seems to have isn't with the films but with the process of adapting a book into a movie.

As for Gandalf "calling the eagles" they used the whole "talking to a bug" thing because people who saw the first films would understand what is going to happen. The ONLY reason that was in their was because of the omission of the scenes at the Eyrie and I think Im starting to repeat myself...

  • 12.24.2012 5:01 PM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

At first I avoided clicking on this thread to avoid spoilers, but then I realised that I've already read the book, lol.

  • 12.24.2012 5:03 PM PDT

Posted by: aBlueBookshelf
Goat was famous. Irie was infamous. Gh0st was FaMaS.

My stats in Halol 4

Typical Waypoint post.
no it's "its got to go" you wouldn't say the "it is got to go" would you?

lol and this kid tries to tell people to stop dissing armor in Reach.

  • 12.24.2012 5:04 PM PDT
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GT: Clerks

I have always thought of Gandalf the Grey as a character who is hesitant to directly influence events. He tends to set important events in motion.

  • 12.24.2012 5:06 PM PDT


Posted by: mav1972kit
It's a movie. Stop worrying about this, and enjoy it.

  • 12.24.2012 5:15 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: Forever MS
Gandalf is a wizard from World of Warcraft. He has special abilities that can only be used after cooldowns that are never specified. He can hit the ground with his staff and inflict incredible aoe damage to 1000 goblins around himbut doesn't seem to be able to do it afterwards.
>implying there's a set way wizards have to operate in every instance in lore, literature, and film. He can summon eagles when he is in danger...but only sometimes and not others. Is there an explanation for this? Or do we have to understand that Tolkien's intended plot twist was for future generations to discover that the world of Middle Earth was actually a video game?He uses a butterfly to summon them. How often do you see a butterfly randomly when you're in a tight or dangerous situation? Probably not that often.
Bilbo Baggins is a scared little Hobbit who is afraid to leave the Shire to go on an adventure. Fast forward two days of walking around in a forest and Bilbo encounters the first monsters he ever saw in his life: 3 giant trolls. Most warriors would be scared to go challenge them alone but Bilbo, being the little afraid hobbit that he was portrayed to be so far, is completely nonchalant about sneaking-up behind a 2-ton killing machine to try to pickpocket his giant knife that weighs half of his weight. How is that supposed to work? The whole concept of pickpocketing someone is that it needs to be something small barely attached to a layer of clothing that is not in direct contact with your skin. But Bilbo, in his first encounter with monsters in his life, is trying the Houdiniest pickpocket trick of all time by removing a 1 meter knife from a giant murdering creature's ass crack with the added thrill factor of having two other trolls facing him directly. When did he develop these two balls to rule them all?He was very small. It's like noticing a mouse moving very slowly on the ground while you're looking at someone's face. Also, guess what: this is a children's story turned into an action movie of sorts. Nitpicking it like this is silly.

Since the eagles are the best air taxis in town, and they are taxis since they have to be called upon first, why did Gandalf not ask them for a ride at the beginning of the movie? And why did he not ask them to drop them at the lonely mountain to make it impossible for Peter Jackson to milk a 300 page book into a trilogy?Why would the eagles want to fly them around ALL the time? They're not Gandalf's pets.

[Edited on 12.24.2012 5:34 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2012 5:19 PM PDT

"I am an enforcer man! Don't nothin' go down in my house! This 100% heart baby! Sure, I check a few fools. I give em the pain! But sometimes its about intimidation, though. It's mind games."
-Terry Tate, Office Linebacker

You guys will fight about anything, won't you?

  • 12.24.2012 5:40 PM PDT

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