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  • Subject: What Gives america the right to intervine in other countries affairs?
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervine in other countries affairs?

Assuming they arnt on a campaign with the soul objective of slaughtering (hitler) yea, I would do nothing. The situation in the middle east unfortunately escalated to the point where civilians were killed. That doesnt give us the right to just butt our butt into their business. Need I remind you of the countless middle-eastern civillian deaths that have been caused by america? That doesnt give, I dont know, england, the right to "step in" and attack us for doing, as you say, what the country thinks is right. They have their right. They believe what they are doing is right.
Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: JohnyRL
Did I ever mention feeling? I believe if he isnt breaking international law, then he can do what he wishes within the grounds of his country's laws. Nothing to do with feeling. I FEEL for those hundreds of middel eastern soliders fighting for what they believe is right to be 'murica'd for the sake of their ambitions conflicting with ours.

[quote]Posted by: AgentCOP1
[quote]Posted by: JohnyRL
If hitler was obeying the laws of his own country in his acts and not attacking other nation then yea, there would be nothing "wrong" what he was doing. The fact is. Internationally speaking, it isnt wrong. YOU think its wrong. But that's your own opinion. If they believe what they are doing is right, and they you dont, then what makes you better than them? Nothing. Right and wrong and totally subjective.
[quote]Posted by: AgentCOP1
[quote]Posted by: JohnyRL
Again. Hold your own opinion. Every country has the right to hold true to their own moral principles and not have those of others enforced onto them. YOU think its horrible.


That's... just....

wow man. So you would do absolutely nothing. If you had the power to save millions of people, you would do nothing. You would just sit there in your throne of power, look over at your neighbor killing millions of people and wouldn't even lift a finger to save even just a few. I just can't believe how heartless you would have to be to be like that.

  • 12.24.2012 10:22 PM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervene in other countries affairs?

Generalizations.
Helping idiots hate other idiots since people have existed.


Posted by: JohnyRL
I guess I am arnt I.
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: JohnyRL
If hitler was obeying the laws of his own country in his acts and not attacking other nation then yea, there would be nothing "wrong" what he was doing. The fact is. Internationally speaking, it isnt wrong. YOU think its wrong. But that's your own opinion. If they believe what they are doing is right, and they you dont, then what makes you better than them? Nothing. Right and wrong and totally subjective.


So is your point of view. Your point of view is subjective as well.
What YOU think is "right" (not intervening) is just as subjective as what he thinks is moral.

You're being a hypocrite.


Indeed.

This may seem off-topic, but are you familiar with the theory of relativity?
Basically, everything is relative to the observer. Dimensional space, the duration of time; it's different depending on the observer. Time passes differently here on Earth and how it passes in a spaceship traveling 99% of the speed of light. There is no one single "correct" perspective of the universe that accurately applies to everything in it.

Now apply this to our aspects of morality.
There is no one single correct view of morality. In fact, this view in itself is a paradox, as I pointed out earlier.
There's no point debating a paradox, because it's impossible to answer.

[Edited on 12.24.2012 10:27 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2012 10:26 PM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervine in other countries affairs?

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Posted by: JohnyRL
Assuming they arnt on a campaign with the soul objective of slaughtering (hitler) yea, I would do nothing. The situation in the middle east unfortunately escalated to the point where civilians were killed. That doesnt give us the right to just butt our butt into their business. Need I remind you of the countless middle-eastern civillian deaths that have been caused by america? That doesnt give, I dont know, england, the right to "step in" and attack us for doing, as you say, what the country thinks is right. They have their right. They believe what they are doing is right.
Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: JohnyRL
Did I ever mention feeling? I believe if he isnt breaking international law, then he can do what he wishes within the grounds of his country's laws. Nothing to do with feeling. I FEEL for those hundreds of middel eastern soliders fighting for what they believe is right to be 'murica'd for the sake of their ambitions conflicting with ours.

[quote]Posted by: AgentCOP1
[quote]Posted by: JohnyRL
If hitler was obeying the laws of his own country in his acts and not attacking other nation then yea, there would be nothing "wrong" what he was doing. The fact is. Internationally speaking, it isnt wrong. YOU think its wrong. But that's your own opinion. If they believe what they are doing is right, and they you dont, then what makes you better than them? Nothing. Right and wrong and totally subjective.
[quote]Posted by: AgentCOP1
[quote]Posted by: JohnyRL
Again. Hold your own opinion. Every country has the right to hold true to their own moral principles and not have those of others enforced onto them. YOU think its horrible.


That's... just....

wow man. So you would do absolutely nothing. If you had the power to save millions of people, you would do nothing. You would just sit there in your throne of power, look over at your neighbor killing millions of people and wouldn't even lift a finger to save even just a few. I just can't believe how heartless you would have to be to be like that.

You and I both agree that simply killing a few civilians here and there doesn't warrant a full on assault, but if a country were just doing a mass execution, despite of the goal, I just can't imagine why you wouldn't do anything. MILLIONS of people, and you wouldn't do anything....

that just astounds me. I'm sorry man but I can't keep talking with you. That's just sickening.

  • 12.24.2012 10:27 PM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervene in other countries affairs?

I understand, and I agree.
You sure you're in High school?
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: JohnyRL
I guess I am arnt I.
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: JohnyRL
If hitler was obeying the laws of his own country in his acts and not attacking other nation then yea, there would be nothing "wrong" what he was doing. The fact is. Internationally speaking, it isnt wrong. YOU think its wrong. But that's your own opinion. If they believe what they are doing is right, and they you dont, then what makes you better than them? Nothing. Right and wrong and totally subjective.


So is your point of view. Your point of view is subjective as well.
What YOU think is "right" (not intervening) is just as subjective as what he thinks is moral.

You're being a hypocrite.


Indeed.

This may seem off-topic, but are you familiar with the theory of relativity?
Basically, everything is relative to the observer. Dimensional space, the duration of time; it's different depending on the observer. Time passes differently here on Earth and how it passes in a spaceship traveling 99% of the speed of light. There is no one single "correct" perspective of the universe that accurately applies to everything in it.

Now apply this to our aspects of morality.
There is no one single correct view of morality. In fact, this view in itself is a paradox, as I pointed out earlier.
There's no point debating a paradox, because it's impossible to answer.

  • 12.24.2012 10:27 PM PDT

Generalizations.
Helping idiots hate other idiots since people have existed.


Posted by: JohnyRL
I understand, and I agree.
You sure you're in High school?
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: JohnyRL
I guess I am arnt I.
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: JohnyRL
If hitler was obeying the laws of his own country in his acts and not attacking other nation then yea, there would be nothing "wrong" what he was doing. The fact is. Internationally speaking, it isnt wrong. YOU think its wrong. But that's your own opinion. If they believe what they are doing is right, and they you dont, then what makes you better than them? Nothing. Right and wrong and totally subjective.


So is your point of view. Your point of view is subjective as well.
What YOU think is "right" (not intervening) is just as subjective as what he thinks is moral.

You're being a hypocrite.


Indeed.

This may seem off-topic, but are you familiar with the theory of relativity?
Basically, everything is relative to the observer. Dimensional space, the duration of time; it's different depending on the observer. Time passes differently here on Earth and how it passes in a spaceship traveling 99% of the speed of light. There is no one single "correct" perspective of the universe that accurately applies to everything in it.

Now apply this to our aspects of morality.
There is no one single correct view of morality. In fact, this view in itself is a paradox, as I pointed out earlier.
There's no point debating a paradox, because it's impossible to answer.


I think I would know if I wasn't, lol.

  • 12.24.2012 10:30 PM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervine in other countries affairs?

You're jumping to a lot of conclusions. if this person was carrying out said horrible act in his country where the law justifies it. Where the person believes what they are doing is right within the laws of their country, then it isnt my right to DO ANYTHING. Not because I agree with it, but its their right. If the victims rebel and ask for assistance, that's different. But I cant just barge in for the sake of justice and intervene in the business of others. THAT's bad. But as I said. "Bad is subjective"
Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: JohnyRL
Assuming they arnt on a campaign with the soul objective of slaughtering (hitler) yea, I would do nothing. The situation in the middle east unfortunately escalated to the point where civilians were killed. That doesnt give us the right to just butt our butt into their business. Need I remind you of the countless middle-eastern civillian deaths that have been caused by america? That doesnt give, I dont know, england, the right to "step in" and attack us for doing, as you say, what the country thinks is right. They have their right. They believe what they are doing is right.
Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: JohnyRL
Did I ever mention feeling? I believe if he isnt breaking international law, then he can do what he wishes within the grounds of his country's laws. Nothing to do with feeling. I FEEL for those hundreds of middel eastern soliders fighting for what they believe is right to be 'murica'd for the sake of their ambitions conflicting with ours.

[quote]Posted by: AgentCOP1
[quote]Posted by: JohnyRL
If hitler was obeying the laws of his own country in his acts and not attacking other nation then yea, there would be nothing "wrong" what he was doing. The fact is. Internationally speaking, it isnt wrong. YOU think its wrong. But that's your own opinion. If they believe what they are doing is right, and they you dont, then what makes you better than them? Nothing. Right and wrong and totally subjective.
[quote]Posted by: AgentCOP1
[quote]Posted by: JohnyRL
Again. Hold your own opinion. Every country has the right to hold true to their own moral principles and not have those of others enforced onto them. YOU think its horrible.


That's... just....

wow man. So you would do absolutely nothing. If you had the power to save millions of people, you would do nothing. You would just sit there in your throne of power, look over at your neighbor killing millions of people and wouldn't even lift a finger to save even just a few. I just can't believe how heartless you would have to be to be like that.

You and I both agree that simply killing a few civilians here and there doesn't warrant a full on assault, but if a country were just doing a mass execution, despite of the goal, I just can't imagine why you wouldn't do anything. MILLIONS of people, and you wouldn't do anything....

that just astounds me. I'm sorry man but I can't keep talking with you. That's just sickening.

  • 12.24.2012 10:31 PM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervene in other countries affairs?

hehe. Well, hold tight onto that brain man. It'l help you a lot.
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: JohnyRL
I understand, and I agree.
You sure you're in High school?
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

Posted by: JohnyRL
I guess I am arnt I.
[quote]Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

[quote]Posted by: JohnyRL
If hitler was obeying the laws of his own country in his acts and not attacking other nation then yea, there would be nothing "wrong" what he was doing. The fact is. Internationally speaking, it isnt wrong. YOU think its wrong. But that's your own opinion. If they believe what they are doing is right, and they you dont, then what makes you better than them? Nothing. Right and wrong and totally subjective.


So is your point of view. Your point of view is subjective as well.
What YOU think is "right" (not intervening) is just as subjective as what he thinks is moral.

You're being a hypocrite.



I think I would know if I wasn't, lol.


[Edited on 12.24.2012 10:37 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2012 10:35 PM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervine in other countries affairs?

Signatures are for little kids.

Just after going into Afghanastan (sp?), America found some very rich mineral deposits that could be used in computers.

I remember reading about it in the paper and thinking 'Wow, they don't just send soldiers, they send geologists to find ways to exploit the land and make money'.

Smart, very smart.

  • 12.24.2012 10:35 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Posted by: JohnyRL
You're jumping to a lot of conclusions. if this person was carrying out said horrible act in his country where the law justifies it. Where the person believes what they are doing is right within the laws of their country, then it isnt my right to DO ANYTHING. Not because I agree with it, but its their right. If the victims rebel and ask for assistance, that's different. But I cant just barge in for the sake of justice and intervene in the business of others. THAT's bad. But as I said. "Bad is subjective"

Well alright, I guess that makes more sense then. So just tell me, yes or no, if the victims were being killed against their will and they wanted help, you would try to do something to help them? Doesn't have to be a direct action.

  • 12.24.2012 10:37 PM PDT

Yes.

And I'm sorry If my point was not clear enough before. I really didnt mean to offend anyone.
Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: JohnyRL
You're jumping to a lot of conclusions. if this person was carrying out said horrible act in his country where the law justifies it. Where the person believes what they are doing is right within the laws of their country, then it isnt my right to DO ANYTHING. Not because I agree with it, but its their right. If the victims rebel and ask for assistance, that's different. But I cant just barge in for the sake of justice and intervene in the business of others. THAT's bad. But as I said. "Bad is subjective"

Well alright, I guess that makes more sense then. So just tell me, yes or no, if the victims were being killed against their will and they wanted help, you would try to do something to help them? Doesn't have to be a direct action.

  • 12.24.2012 10:40 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Posted by: JohnyRL
Yes.

And I'm sorry If my point was not clear enough before. I really didnt mean to offend anyone.
Posted by: AgentCOP1
Posted by: JohnyRL
You're jumping to a lot of conclusions. if this person was carrying out said horrible act in his country where the law justifies it. Where the person believes what they are doing is right within the laws of their country, then it isnt my right to DO ANYTHING. Not because I agree with it, but its their right. If the victims rebel and ask for assistance, that's different. But I cant just barge in for the sake of justice and intervene in the business of others. THAT's bad. But as I said. "Bad is subjective"

Well alright, I guess that makes more sense then. So just tell me, yes or no, if the victims were being killed against their will and they wanted help, you would try to do something to help them? Doesn't have to be a direct action.

Well alright bro! You were starting to piss me off there for a second lol.

  • 12.24.2012 10:42 PM PDT

Generalizations.
Helping idiots hate other idiots since people have existed.


Posted by: AgentCOP1
if the victims were being killed against their will


Ah yes, here is the key.

Doing bodily harm to someone against their will is unacceptable. Infringing on the rights of others is unacceptable. This is not a moral argument, but a logical one. Go read the works of John Locke.

  • 12.24.2012 10:43 PM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervene in other countries affairs?

I think everyone more or less agrees now. I think that just about wraps up this thread. G'night flood.

[Edited on 12.24.2012 10:49 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2012 10:48 PM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervine in other countries affairs?

I will base the following arguments on this assumption.
-Killing is Evil

If we just use this as the basis of this thought, then yes, America would be evil. After all, we invaded several countries in the middle east and killed thousands of soldiers and insurgents. However, if we look at what the Iraqi regime did in Iraqi Kurdistan, you will find that Iraq was killing more people. These are evidenced in the chemical warfare used against the Kurdish rebels. I am personally a fan of the lesser of two evils.

Back on subject, what gives the US or any other nation the right to force their will upon any other country. Repeatedly the argument that as long as it is lawful in the state, we have no right to force our will upon them. When those who make the laws have made it legal to kill, then that government has, violated the social contract it made with its populace. It is at that point, it ceases to be a nation, and begins to be a despotism. Once this occurs, other governments can take it upon themselves to overthrow said despots. Oftentimes this requires bloodshed, but once again, it is the lesser of two evils, as if the despots are unchecked, could cause more casualties than those from the war itself.

On to why they do it. America, for centuries has been influenced by the "White Man's Burden". I do not use this term in any racist way. This common Western belief is in essence, "We have awesome stuff, those people over there don't. We will give them this awesomeness, because life is worse without it." For better or for worse, this is still in effect.

I hope I have offended nobody with this post.

  • 12.24.2012 11:00 PM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervene in other countries affairs?

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.

Well, a bunch of pretentious college kids told me that America was a bad man so I hate him too.

  • 12.24.2012 11:02 PM PDT

Lets Boogie


Posted by: dazarobbo
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
That is an excellent point. And the fact of the matter is, that we make that call.

There are some things that we all agree on. War Crimes are an example of something that the whole world has agreed to as being evil.
Who is "we"?

what is evil?


It is hard to give a good definition of evil, but i do know when an act/action is evil

Here are examples of evil.

Genocide. Also hurting a specific race simply because of said race existence.

Murder, im not talking about killing in self-defense, or soldiers fighting each other in war, or even collateral damage. A man walking into a house and slaughtering a family, for whatever reason is evil, a boy murdering a bunch of elementry school kids is evil.

raape is evil.

Slavery, treating human beings like animals, is evil.

Should i go on?

Yes some people have opinions that murder (in the context i was referring to), raape, slavery, genocide, are not evil, and believe by doing one of those things, they are doing good, or serving a good cause.

So peoples opinions on what good and evil is vary, but that doesn't mean there isn't a true good or evil. Just because say Hitler or Stalin or Mao, didn't think the slaughter of the innocent wasn't wrong, doesn't make it so.

There is always good and evil.

Good and evil exist.

[Edited on 12.24.2012 11:26 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2012 11:23 PM PDT

Posted by: haloplayer2kill
Yes some people have opinions that murder (in the context i was referring to), raape, slavery, genocide, are not evil, and believe by doing one of those things, they are doing good, or serving a good cause.

So peoples opinions on what good and evil is vary, but that doesn't mean there isn't a true good or evil. Just because say Hitler or Stalin or Mao, didn't think the slaughter of the innocent wasn't wrong, doesn't make it so.
Yet you believe your position on what is good and evil is superior to those who who believe those things you listed "are not evil".

How do you justify that?

  • 12.24.2012 11:51 PM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervine in other countries affairs?
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KiLo SiErRa 13

The US likes to charge in like a white knight to help the third worlders when they dont want help from the US.

All i hear from Arabic friends is that their family overseas hates the US intervention in the middle east. They say its just done more bad then good.

Id understand sending aid packages for the civillians but sending an army over to control the are and promote "peace" is a bit extreme.

The only reason i would understand sending forces into the middle east would be to end the taliban control over some areas. A group of extremists like them should never be allowed to have the power that they do.

  • 12.25.2012 12:29 AM PDT

Just dance 4- Lindsey Stirling

Dead-body-ologist at The U.S. Army 18th Medical Command

Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

That's why.

  • 12.25.2012 12:31 AM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervene in other countries affairs?

william

we're -blam!-s deal with it










sorry

[Edited on 12.25.2012 12:32 AM PST]

  • 12.25.2012 12:32 AM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervine in other countries affairs?

Just dance 4- Lindsey Stirling

Dead-body-ologist at The U.S. Army 18th Medical Command

Posted by: dazarobbo
Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
That is an excellent point. And the fact of the matter is, that we make that call.

There are some things that we all agree on. War Crimes are an example of something that the whole world has agreed to as being evil.
Who is "we"?

Bringing up war crimes just puts us back at square one, because I all I need to do is ask what constitutes a war crime - what is evil?
The UN, NATO, it's pretty much a common opinion on what sort of things are acceptable and what things won't be tolerated.

  • 12.25.2012 12:37 AM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervene in other countries affairs?

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

Posted by: JohnyRL
But in a situation like what is currently going on in the middle east (you know what I'm talking about)


I don't. What are you talking about?

  • 12.25.2012 12:38 AM PDT
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Countries have gotten involved in a countries busniess since the dawn of time, ranging from taking down/restoring monarchs to suit them and creating alliances to keep the balance of power.

Hence why Britain was involved in European affairs.

  • 12.25.2012 12:39 AM PDT

Just dance 4- Lindsey Stirling

Dead-body-ologist at The U.S. Army 18th Medical Command

I don't know about some of you but it infuriates me when a leader takes advantage of his own people, puts them to the sword for -blam!-s and giggles while claiming some ridiculous excuse...I couldn't stand to be on the bench watching.

  • 12.25.2012 12:42 AM PDT
Subject: What Gives america the right to intervine in other countries affairs?
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Main | Connection | Youtube Channel


50s: | Slayer | Doubles | Lone Wolves | SWAT | Snipers |


Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

That's why.


Yep.

  • 12.25.2012 12:49 AM PDT