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  • Subject: AK-47 or M16 Platform?
Subject: AK-47 or M16 Platform?
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: AgentCOP1
When you're in basic training, they will usually give you .22 long rifle rounds. The M16 is meant to use the .223. The 22s are smaller than the .223s and can jam in the clip mechanism as it comes to the breach. If you would just get the appropriate .223s, this problem would be greatly reduced.

What? I would love to see your source for this.

There are .22 LR conversion kits for the AR-15 frames, but I am unaware of any military training that uses them.

Training soldiers to fire a weapon with a cartridge other than what the weapon fires in real use would be counter-productive. The main reason that civilians will get the .22 conversion kits is that .22 LR is incredibly cheap compared to 5.56 NATO. Military training is not looking to save pennies on ammunition.

But they are so different ballistically that there would be no reason for and plenty of reasons against using .22 LR for rifle training.

[Edited on 12.26.2012 1:32 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2012 1:32 PM PDT

Meepzoid

LOL CoD influences the kids of today like no other.

The M16 was a horrible gun. They jam like no other. The AK47 is one of the most influential weapons because it's fairly cheap and effective.

What's your next question going to be, "Is the Commando from CoD Black Ops better then a Ar-15?!" lol

  • 12.26.2012 1:32 PM PDT

Recon seems to be the only one who knows their stuff ITT

Personally I'd go with the AR. More versatile and the reliabilty isn't a huge issue nowadays.

If it's good enough for these guys, it's good enough for me. Linky

  • 12.26.2012 1:52 PM PDT

Octavia is best pony.

AK. It's cheap, reliable, powerful, and ubiquitous.

  • 12.26.2012 1:54 PM PDT

The strongest Rivals are also the strongest allies.


Posted by: Koolen
m16 proven worthy in battles and wars? Have you ever shot with one? Have you ever operated one in (simulated) combat? They jam the whole time and are pretty much useless with even a slight amount of sand in the valve. I consider them more accurate then the AK-47 but that's about it.

i can ask you the same question.
A weapon that can not hit anything past 400m is useless as a military weapon.

[Edited on 12.26.2012 1:56 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2012 1:55 PM PDT

anybody who says ak47 over m16 has never shot both guns, in real life (not cod :0) the ak47 has way to much recoil and is just overall bad

  • 12.26.2012 1:55 PM PDT

http://dictionary.reference.com/
http://thesaurus.com/
http://grammar.com/

Wheres the "other" option?

  • 12.26.2012 1:58 PM PDT

Posted by: Taconomicon
Posted by: bobcast
On a related note, ******'s mom has really nice boobs, and it doesn't take much booze or encouragement to get her to let the puppies out of the pen...if you know what I mean...

LMAO


Posted by: Lord Pyro

Posted by: Chelloz THE one
M16! With a bipod and extended mag it's really useful while the AK 47 has really bad recoil.


Oh look, another CoD or BF3 noob in a real life gun thread.

b8td m8

  • 12.26.2012 2:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: pac_sun_girl
I agree with Cobra and Der.

Posted by: coink13
anybody who says ak47 over m16 has never shot both guns, in real life (not cod :0) the ak47 has way to much recoil and is just overall bad


I have fired both in real life.

I find the recoil not that different between the two, neither being that harsh.

- Der

  • 12.26.2012 4:14 PM PDT
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personally i like the AR platform. it's more comfortable, and you can customize it how YOU like it.

[Edited on 12.26.2012 4:31 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2012 4:27 PM PDT

M16, seeing how I'm experienced in AR-15s and understand the M16's design much more and have more access to AR-15 parts and accessories than the AK.

  • 12.26.2012 4:30 PM PDT

About me: I am a vicious wolf of a man.

But really am sweet at heart. =)


Posted by: tha man
LOL CoD influences the kids of today like no other.

The M16 was a horrible gun. They jam like no other. The AK47 is one of the most influential weapons because it's fairly cheap and effective.

What's your next question going to be, "Is the Commando from CoD Black Ops better then a Ar-15?!" lol


Lol, saying CoD influences kids when you have the same opinion as them.

My Remington based AR has never jammed on me, even when I buried the damn thing in mud I was still able to put a mag and a half through it before the action seized totally. (Was a fun day and a half of cleaning).

But the fact is mister CoD kiddie that if you knew anything about the history of the weapon, you'd know the weapon only jammed in Vietnam because they told the soldiers carrying it that it didn't need to be cleaned, and the barrel wasn't chromed.

And guess what? As soon as soldiers started cleaning it, it worked like a dream! Just like how the AK can double feed all the time, and jam all the time, and even explode if you don't do a basic job of maintaining the firearm.

And the AK isn't even as effective as the AR, AK rounds go right through you, plenty of guys have been hit in the shoulder and it's gone right through, causing no damage, and a lot of them can even be stopped by body armor or a combination of a rucksack and their metal plates.

5.56 rounds tumble on impact, causing severe internal injuries as shockwaves travel through soft organs.

Finally, the Colt Commando was a shortened carbine version of the M16A1, so yes it's fair to compare it to an AR-15, it's like comparing the AK74 series to the 100 series.

  • 12.26.2012 4:32 PM PDT

Skwid


Posted by: BOB THE DOCTER

Posted by: Koolen
m16 proven worthy in battles and wars? Have you ever shot with one? Have you ever operated one in (simulated) combat? They jam the whole time and are pretty much useless with even a slight amount of sand in the valve. I consider them more accurate then the AK-47 but that's about it.

i can ask you the same question.
A weapon that can not hit anything past 400m is useless as a military weapon.

Okay, so by that statement we will just have to bring back the M1903 Springfield. That has a max range of 600M, give or take.

Most (not all) of combat engagements occur within 300M. So call me crazy, but for the most part either weapon would be enough. And for times when that it isn't enough, a marksman could engage the longer distance target.

On topic, AK-47 platform is the better choice for me.

  • 12.26.2012 4:39 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.

A tried and true variant utilized by American Special Forces or a gun that is only popular among stoners/CoD fans...

Hmmm.... the decision is so very tough.

[Edited on 12.26.2012 4:41 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2012 4:40 PM PDT

Currently studying Computer Science & Software engineering. Hope to work on mobile devices of the future! When a certain game's credits roll, look out for my name! ;)

You will -blam!- bricks when you see what game it is! =)


Posted by: FatherlyNick
Just watch this.




























































  • 12.26.2012 4:41 PM PDT
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GrownPrism is NOT my gt. Happened when signing into my xbox live account. My real gt is here:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Default.aspx?player=SYNTHES lS&sg=0

HK-47

  • 12.26.2012 4:42 PM PDT

Just remember that no matter how terrible you feel, or how much you want to let go, there are people who care about you and love you.

I like the Ak-47 better.

  • 12.26.2012 4:43 PM PDT

If then pen is mightier than the sword, then why do actions speak louder than words?

Most current thread - http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76233031
Good for a laugh - http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=74028139

Seeing as the longest range kill with a rifle is 2,475m with a L115A3 I doubt people are using assault rifles at 3,000m.
Posted by: Gottalovec4
Posted by: Koolen
m16 proven worthy in battles and wars? Have you ever shot with one? Have you ever operated one in (simulated) combat? They jam the whole time and are pretty much useless with even a slight amount of sand in the valve. I consider them more accurate then the AK-47 but that's about it.



Yeah...much more accurate. It has an effective range of about 3 times that of an AK platform. I would never take one of those hunks of metal with me into combat.

AKs can jam just as often as an M16, considering that the machining on them is subpar at best, when fired rapidly they can double feed almost every other burst, yeah they're durable, but their worthless for that reason as well.

Look at it this way, in Afghanistan, troops are engaging targets something like 1000 meters to 2000 meters away, and an AK47 or AKM has an effective range of 400 meters, compared to an M16's 1500 to 3000 meters, and that's only of the Marine or soldier doesn't have a zoom optic or ACOG, which makes it much easier to engage.

In addition, the M16 platform can adopt many more optics and systems than the AK47, which is limited to a few Soviet era optics, and being able to tape two magazines together.

Finally, it is much easier to stay on target with the M16 because the 5.56 round is based on .223 civilian, which kicks like a .22LR, while it's nearly impossible to stay on target with the awful Soviet 7.62 and 5.45.

In the end, not even "jamming" can be used as a measure to discuss which is better because any self respecting soldier will clean his weapon, even Taliban run motor oil through their AKs every once in a while because they jam too. Oh, and that "dust in the valve" can be stopped by closing this thing called a "dust cover" on the right side, that has been on the weapon since the A2.


[Edited on 12.27.2012 11:24 AM PST]

  • 12.27.2012 11:22 AM PDT

Xbox LIVE gamertag: Dat3lessNutella
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You know this to be true.
ALL HAIL GABEN

AK-47 dominates the M16 irl.

  • 12.27.2012 11:31 AM PDT

The Spartan Special Ops - Now with more LOLgasms!

Posted by: EnragedElite67
"The problem with quotes on the internet is 95% are made up." - Socrates


Posted by: crispychicken49


Cons: M16
-Horrid Reliability





This is actually not true anymore, and it wasn't really true back then either.

The M-16A1s just needed love. The GIs were sent into the jungle and told that they did not need to service their rifles. So they didn't. The rifle got gunky and dirty, and then jammed.

Once they started servicing the A1s, they were a great platform.

The A2s fixed many reliability problems, as did the A3 and A4.

The current gen M16A4 is a fantastic rifle. It still requires some lube and cleaning, but it will work it's self to death.

I've see people take AR-15s (which is just a semiauto M16) and literally fire them till they were on fire, and it would still run.


  • 12.27.2012 11:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: Koolen
m16 proven worthy in battles and wars? Have you ever shot with one? Have you ever operated one in (simulated) combat? They jam the whole time and are pretty much useless with even a slight amount of sand in the valve. I consider them more accurate then the AK-47 but that's about it.



That's bull-blam!-. The M-16/M-4 is extremely proven in battle. It's low recoil aids in quick sight picture adjustment, to allow more rounds accurately to go down range, along with using the 5.56x45mm and a 1/7 r/ht barrel which gives it accuracy up to 600m. Not to mention they hardly jam unless you're doing training with blanks (who's sole purpose is to jam that thing).

I had the same M-4 for ~3 years, you know how many times it jammed? Twice. That's after putting hundreds and hundreds of rounds through it. Proper care and maintenance are key with it. The only two times it did jam were because I had to hand it off to someone else, and when I got it back they didn't clean it.


As for my actual answer.

I'ld take an M-4 anyday over the AK-47. After handling both, and seeing both used in combat by equally trained soldiers, the M-16 series has always been the victor. The fact is the AK vs. AR debate is no different than the 9mm vs. .45 debate.

The .45 side says, "well mine has more knockdown power!" and the 9mm says "I have more ammo!" but what nobody seems to ever know about, or factor in is COMBAT ABILITY. Seriously, it's so overlooked it's ridiculous. A .45 in combat is less useful than a 9mm, just as an AK is less useful than an AR.

The fact, quite simply, is during a gun fight your first instinct is to simply make a louder bang, and more bangs than the other person. This inevaditably results in you emptying your entire first mag in the shortest time possible. For an M-4, that typically sits around 45 seconds (on semi). The big thing to overcome that is training, and training isn't something most people possess.

Then the issue becomes reload time, figuring you're under stress that's a feat. Especially reloading the AK which under stress takes twice as long as the M-16 series, even with equal training on both weapon systems. This is because of the M-16's simple slip up method, compared to the AK's angled way (hard to explain, those who've used both know what I'm saying).

The final issue once you get past that intial surge of adrenaline is to kill your opponent before they kill you (figuring you didn't kill them already). This is done by efficient, well aimed rounds, which in no doubt goes again to the M-16 series. The AK, sadly, barely meets the minimum requirements of the modern battlefield.

The majority of modern firefights occur from 100-500m, and often extend even past that. To put into perspective the ranges involved, hold your hand in front of your face and look at your pinky, then look at your nail. That's roughly how tall someone is at 400m. For an M-16 that's no big deal, but for an AK-47 who's max effective range sits around 300m, that's a toughy, especially while under fire.

The only real thing the AK has over the M-16 is "stopping power" which isn't as big of a deal as you may believe. As an experiment for yourself, go to your head, hit him in the chest with your fist. It'll probably knock him back a bit, but not much else. Now take your pointer finger, and slam it's knuckle into him 10 times as fast as you can. Chances are he's on the ground writhing in pain.

The reason that works is because an AK's accuracy greatly affects it, and in combat it will typically be used with the full automatic mode engaged. Even with the single fire on, going off that rule I stated before, you'll be disregarding aimed shots and try to match every time he shoots, since it takes longer to reaquire your target with a larger caliber weapon such as the AK, you'll never match him.

The AK might get lucky and get a hit in, and while it'll do some damage, it still won't match the same damage a M-16 can do in the same time. In the time 1 round will hit vitals wih the AK, 5-6 accurate rounds can be put in the vitals with an M-16 (tested this, actually). This means more holes, more gore, more death. Not to mention that the modern rounds used actually transfer MORE energy through a 5.56 than a 7.62.

The fact is, while the AK is a long lasting weapon, it's one only good for small countries until it's entirely re-worked. There are some very good variants of it out there (such as the Polish Beryl) but as the standard AK design is the biggest one out there, it can't compare to the M-16.




-Max Eff Range of AK - 300m, M-16-500m

7.62x39mm (AK) Facts
Energy (Muzzle) - 1,525 ft/lbs
@100m - 1,200
@200m - 915
@300m - 690
@400m - 515
@500m - 395
@600m - 280

5.56x45mm (AR) Facts
Energy (Muzzle) - 1,250 ft/lbs
@100m - 970
@200m - 735
@300m - 550
@400m - 405
@500m - 290
@600m - 172




tl;dr - M-16 wins, read facts below.

  • 12.27.2012 12:09 PM PDT

I'm an Indonesian Halo (and other games) gamer!
Bhineka Tunggal Ika!!

I don't really like both

  • 12.27.2012 12:11 PM PDT

Yes, I'm a furry. And yes, I like men. So what?

The Kalashnikov and AR-15 platforms are -blam!-. I prefer the SKS design.

[Edited on 12.27.2012 12:13 PM PST]

  • 12.27.2012 12:11 PM PDT