Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: What do you think of gun control?
  • Subject: What do you think of gun control?
Subject: What do you think of gun control?

America needs it desperately.

  • 12.26.2012 4:44 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

All automatic weapons banned.
All semi-automatic weapons banned.
All of those tiny home-defense shotguns and the like banned.

Any experienced hunter [like myself] will tell you that semi-automatics aren't needed for any type of game. There is no reason for anyone to own any of the above types of guns. "I like to shoot targets" is not a reason. You can defend your home with a regular shotgun.

Stop producing handguns, allow possession of them to remain legal. In the long term, this would lead to less gun violence. In 100 or 200 years, handguns would be nonexistent.

All of the above relies on an international effort to stop gun violence around the world. If every single government doesn't buy in, then my ideas are useless. As it were, I don't think the above postulates are so radical that the world wouldn't be able to come to an agreement.

  • 12.26.2012 4:44 PM PDT

Intoxicated Warthawg driver for Hire
Posted by: AquaBlader
CTF is god. Praise his name. For the flag is his holy messiah.

Posted by: Bricypoo Nobody quotes me and puts me in their signatures It makes me sad ... :(
My third montage!


Posted by: Harlow
All automatic weapons banned.
All semi-automatic weapons banned.
All of those tiny home-defense shotguns and the like banned.
*sighs* They already ARE. They can be owned but the process to obtain one is both lengthy and expensive. Plus there is a annual tax just to own one.

As far as the others, that's like saying we don't need sports cars cable of extremely high speeds and should only be obtainable by professional race drivers.

No one NEEDS a corvette or Porche or any other type of sports car. But people still buy them.

  • 12.26.2012 4:48 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: IIx luke xIII
America needs it desperately.

Posted by: AK 47625714
I think a lot of people who comment on gun control aren't informed on current laws and regulations.


[Edited on 12.26.2012 4:50 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2012 4:49 PM PDT

*´¨)---––•(-• Dutchy •-)•–--–-(¨´*
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)••(¨*•.¸ (¨´*•.¸´â€¢.¸
(¸.•´ (¸.•Everything fails•.¸) ´â€¢.¸)


Posted by: Agent Peeps
that's like saying we don't need sports cars cable of extremely high speeds and should only be obtainable by professional race drivers.
Dat equivalency fallacy.

  • 12.26.2012 4:50 PM PDT

Intoxicated Warthawg driver for Hire
Posted by: AquaBlader
CTF is god. Praise his name. For the flag is his holy messiah.

Posted by: Bricypoo Nobody quotes me and puts me in their signatures It makes me sad ... :(
My third montage!


Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: Agent Peeps
that's like saying we don't need sports cars cable of extremely high speeds and should only be obtainable by professional race drivers.
Dat equivalency fallacy.
Fair enough but when people say "You don't need this type of weapon or you don't need a 20 to 30 round magazine", that's why I feel like they are saying.

  • 12.26.2012 4:51 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.


Posted by: destroys u
Posted by: Dark Tyrax
Then something has to be done. It's gotten to the point where there's shootings way too frequently. And don't spout that "gun violence has been done" nonsense. I can point you out to 30+ families in Connecticut who you can try to persuade.
What do you suggest then?

Just to put perspective on things, in the USA, people are more likely to be killed by someone's bare hands than they are to be killed with a rifle.

Here's another interesting bit of numbers to show risks and death associated with another common aspect of modern life.

About 34 million hospitalizations in the US each year. Almost 200,000 of them result in death due to medical errors. Not due to the illness or the disease/injury that brought the patient to the hospital, but deaths due to errors. Those would be preventable deaths that didn't need to happen, but did.

That is a 0.57 percent chance that a particular hospitalization results in a preventable death.

Compare that to 310 million civilian-owned firearms and a total of 11,000 firearm homicides.

Far less people go to the hospital ever year than there are firearms in the US and yet almost 20 times as many people die from improperly performed medicine than due from maliciously wielded firearms every year.

Does that make a firearm death a tragedy? Yes, they still are.
Are there more preventable deaths occurring elsewhere? Depends on who you ask and who's lost a loved one and how.

My maths may be off. Someone else want to run those numbers and verify my percentages and what are the odds of "death from hospitalization" and the odds of "firearm being used in a murder"? And yes, I know the comparison is silly. After all, people go to the hospital to get well. But the claim that every firearm is "meant to kill" is just as silly. The sheer number of firearms compared to the number of deaths caused mean that very FEW firearms are misused to commit murder and most are safely and lawfully owned with no harm or danger to others.

  • 12.26.2012 4:52 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Heroic Member

Hey.


Posted by: XxExpungexX
There really isn't a problem with guns.

Give me a break. The difference between a gun and a car is a gun has ONE purpose. To kill. Yes, you can kill someone with a car, but that's not why they're made.

[Edited on 12.26.2012 4:53 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2012 4:52 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member


Posted by: Agent Peeps
They already ARE.


They can be owned

Are they banned or aren't they banned? Can someone really contradict themselves this obviously and not be aware of it?

Both of those are rhetorical questions, by the way. I know the laws of the United States, as I'm a bit of politics buff and I study this kind of thing in my free time. Not to mention the majority of my family (myself included) owns guns.

As far as the others, that's like saying we don't need sports cars cable of extremely high speeds and should only be obtainable by professional race drivers.

No one NEEDS a corvette or Porche or any other type of sports car. But people still buy them.


This here folks is what we call a false analogy. We call them "fallacies" in philosophy. Basically it's a fancy word for points that make no sense.

Guns are not cars. Next.

  • 12.26.2012 4:54 PM PDT

Signatures are for little kids.

I liked how the NRA made a big statement saying 'Isreal had loads of school shootings till they did something about it and put armed guards in schools'.

Turns out authorities in Isreal can only remember 2 school shootings in the last 40 years.. and those were 'terrorist' happenings related to the political situation there.

Who can take seriously an organization that seems to assume most people are way too dumb to look into what they say?

  • 12.26.2012 4:54 PM PDT

▀▄▀▄ Strategy, Competition, & Achievements for Halo & Beyond ▄▀▄▀
████▓▓▓▓▒▒▒▒░░░░ Mjolnir Battle Tactics ░░░░▒▒▒▒▓▓▓▓████


"Ignorance is a plague."

Close, but the plague killed those infected with it, and the ignorant are still alive.
I wish ignorance was a plague.

Posted by: lime013
Posted by: XxExpungexX
I think AR's should be banned but there are plenty out there. There really isn't a problem with guns. There is a problem with bad people and mental people and security.
They already are in 15 states, but are also very expensive. Only 1% of homicides are committed with ARs.
Actually, legally owned fully automatic weapons (including assault rifles) have been used in murders twice since 1934 in the USA.

PLEASE stop using "AR" to mean "Assault rifle"!!! AR (as in AR-15) stands for Armalite.

  • 12.26.2012 4:55 PM PDT

▀▄▀▄ Strategy, Competition, & Achievements for Halo & Beyond ▄▀▄▀
████▓▓▓▓▒▒▒▒░░░░ Mjolnir Battle Tactics ░░░░▒▒▒▒▓▓▓▓████


"Ignorance is a plague."

Close, but the plague killed those infected with it, and the ignorant are still alive.
I wish ignorance was a plague.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: destroys u
Posted by: Dark Tyrax
Then something has to be done. It's gotten to the point where there's shootings way too frequently. And don't spout that "gun violence has been done" nonsense. I can point you out to 30+ families in Connecticut who you can try to persuade.
What do you suggest then?

Just to put perspective on things, in the USA, people are more likely to be killed by someone's bare hands than they are to be killed with a rifle.

Here's another interesting bit of numbers to show risks and death associated with another common aspect of modern life.

About 34 million hospitalizations in the US each year. Almost 200,000 of them result in death due to medical errors. Not due to the illness or the disease/injury that brought the patient to the hospital, but deaths due to errors. Those would be preventable deaths that didn't need to happen, but did.

That is a 0.57 percent chance that a particular hospitalization results in a preventable death.

Compare that to 310 million civilian-owned firearms and a total of 11,000 firearm homicides.

Far less people go to the hospital ever year than there are firearms in the US and yet almost 20 times as many people die from improperly performed medicine than due from maliciously wielded firearms every year.

Does that make a firearm death a tragedy? Yes, they still are.
Are there more preventable deaths occurring elsewhere? Depends on who you ask and who's lost a loved one and how.

My maths may be off. Someone else want to run those numbers and verify my percentages and what are the odds of "death from hospitalization" and the odds of "firearm being used in a murder"? And yes, I know the comparison is silly. After all, people go to the hospital to get well. But the claim that every firearm is "meant to kill" is just as silly. The sheer number of firearms compared to the number of deaths caused mean that very FEW firearms are misused to commit murder and most are safely and lawfully owned with no harm or danger to others.
Seems like you got it right.

Here is the source for my previous claim (the FBI).

  • 12.26.2012 4:59 PM PDT


Posted by: Garland
Posted by: the Han
Posted by: xl OC Girl lx
Posted by: Mastergee
I feel we really needed another one of these threads.

This.

Also, I'm a supporter of the second amendment. Laws only affect those who obey them. If you ban guns, only those who are law-abiding citizens will get rid of their guns. The crazy psychopaths who are planning on shooting up a school.. well, you can bet that they'll easily find access to a gun. In reference to the CT shooting, had those teachers been carrying firearms in their desks, the shooter could have been taken down sooner.

Plus, I'm sure if someone was planning on doing a shooting somewhere, knowing that the people around him were armed, he would probably think twice about doing it.


i disagree with you slightly on this.

i dont think teacher should have guns IN SCHOOL for these reasons:

1) they could go over board with it and use it unnecessarily
A person this unstable or with such bad anger management issues has no business being a teacher to begin with.
Posted by: the Han
2) a student could get a hold of it.
The gun should be kept on the teacher's person, and ideally the students will never know the teacher has it.


I still haven't heard a good reason to not have armed security guards in schools(armed with firearms of course).

More on topic, I'm for gun control, so long as by gun control you mean keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and crazies and not further limiting what law abiding citizens are aloud to own and carry or making them illegal outright. In fact, I'm 50/50 on whether or not we should make all fully automatic weapons legal as well. I mean on one hand, the only thing that full-auto fire is really strategically good for is suppressing a target/s, but on the other hand, I have to wonder how much more damage(if any more) a gunman could cause by just pointing a gun into a crowd and holding the trigger rather than firing on semi automatic.

[Edited on 12.26.2012 7:02 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2012 7:00 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: tntbabin
I still haven't heard a good reason to not have armed security guards in schools(armed with firearms of course).

If it is federally managed? Some numbers and then 3 letters for you. And then you tell me that you still haven't heard a "good reason".

9-11-2001 = TSA

If a local school district wants to implement this, I would trust each local district to implement it in a way that is driven by, understood and supported by the parents of their students.

If the feds try to implement or manage it? Nightmares and horrific images abound.

  • 12.26.2012 7:14 PM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

I think it's hilarious that it hasn't been enacted nation-wide in the United States. The second amendment is a joke, and should be wiped.

  • 12.26.2012 7:16 PM PDT

Lt. Dan I brought you some ice cream. Lt. Dan.. ice creaaam!

Posted by: Recon Number 54 You could say that 100% of humans die of natural causes and compare that to gun related deaths to show how the numbers seem trivial.

OT: There was an incident in China the same day that the massacre took place. A man went and stabbed 22 children, and none of them died because China has strict gun laws. It seems like the more guns we aquire the more guns we need to protect ourselves. So we wind up just paranoid all the time that we're going to get shot.

  • 12.26.2012 7:20 PM PDT

Signatures are for little kids.


Posted by: tntbabin

I still haven't heard a good reason to not have armed security guards in schools(armed with firearms of course).

I'm not an expert but I imagine that would cost loads and loads of money.

Buying all the guns, paying people 8 hour days 5 days a week for every week school is in..

And lets face it, it would just mean that when the next wacko went on a rampage they'd make sure to take out the security guard first.

There needs to be more respect for each other and empathy in society in general, not sure how you can force people to like or be nice to other people espically in a country where people are so divided by race and a tiny amount of people get rich off the backs of the vast majority.

  • 12.26.2012 7:25 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

People who want guns banned fail to realize the existence of a black market.

  • 12.26.2012 7:28 PM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

Posted by: AgentCOP1
People who want guns banned fail to realize the existence of a black market.


Where exactly does this black market come from?

  • 12.26.2012 7:30 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: markwil1992
Posted by: Recon Number 54 You could say that 100% of humans die of natural causes and compare that to gun related deaths to show how the numbers seem trivial.

I certainly wasn't trying to trivialize.

The idea that "a gun is a tragedy waiting to happen" is (IMO) false and emotional in its appeal. Especially when there are over 300 million of them in the nation and so few of them are used in homicides. 11,000 a year is a lot of deaths, they are too many deaths, they are deaths at the hands of another person.

The comparison to hospitalizations, which has a smaller overall number (34 million a year) but a far higher death toll (nearly 200,000 a year) due to not someones malicious intent to take a life, but from simple mistakes, errors and incompetence... well, that is a huge death toll that if we're going to go on emotion, these deaths are 100% preventable because they were due to unintended errors.

If we are looking at potentially high-lethality situations, firearms are statistically "less lethal than medical malpractice".

  • 12.26.2012 7:33 PM PDT

"There's this theory that if there were an infinite number of monkeys pecking away at typewriters, they would eventually write the great works of Shakespeare, but thanks to the internet we now know that's not true." -Adam Savage

"Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round." -Caboose

NOTE: This is my new primary account. My old account was AgentCOPP1, and I changed it because it was linked to a gamertag that I no longer use.

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: AgentCOP1
People who want guns banned fail to realize the existence of a black market.


Where exactly does this black market come from?

Criminals.

  • 12.26.2012 7:42 PM PDT


Posted by: Godshatter

Posted by: tntbabin

I still haven't heard a good reason to not have armed security guards in schools(armed with firearms of course).

I'm not an expert but I imagine that would cost loads and loads of money.

Buying all the guns, paying people 8 hour days 5 days a week for every week school is in..

And lets face it, it would just mean that when the next wacko went on a rampage they'd make sure to take out the security guard first.

There needs to be more respect for each other and empathy in society in general, not sure how you can force people to like or be nice to other people espically in a country where people are so divided by race and a tiny amount of people get rich off the backs of the vast majority.


I agree it'd cost money, but I don't think money would be too big an issue. I meant that there would be a team of guards(4 or 5 maybe)placed at strategic locations. I also agree people should show more respect for each other, but we can't force everyone to do that.

@Recon, I agree that the TSA is a mess, but so long as a security teams ONLY job is to react to outbreaks of severe violence or danger(gunshots, stabbings, weapons being waved around ect), I don't see how the government could F it up. That being said, I'm not arguing for or against it being federally implemented, only that it needs to be there and don't see a good reason for it not to be.

  • 12.26.2012 7:42 PM PDT

God is not proud...He will have us even though we have shown that we prefer everything else to Him.-- CS Lewis

Can we stop having these topics?

  • 12.26.2012 7:46 PM PDT

"They don't call him Flopper for nothing"-AquaBlader

Those who sacrifice liberty for freedom deserve neither- Ben Franklin.

This means those who reduce laws in the name of freedom do not deserve the new freedoms they get and will result in anarchy.
In the context of gun violence this means that if we don't have tight enough gun control laws then their will be anarchy.

Also it is stupid to think that gun violence is solved by more guns.
The Fort Hood military base shooting took place 50 feet from a firing range and everybody had a gun and 10 plus people were killed. So people who think that guns solve guns kindly read the facts and shut up.

  • 12.26.2012 7:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: THE G0D FL0PPER
Those who sacrifice liberty for freedom deserve neither- Ben Franklin.

I think that you quoted wrong. Liberty is treated as something akin to freedom.

I believe that you meant....


Posted by: THE G0D FL0PPER
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin.

  • 12.26.2012 7:55 PM PDT