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  • Subject: Lets discuss rifles and the term, "Assault Weapon."
Subject: Lets discuss rifles and the term, "Assault Weapon."

Key


Posted by: Kadoozy

Posted by: Gruntzilla24



I have met someone in real life that bought an illegal pistol from some guy on the street. They don't have to be a part of some big "black market" to own illegal weapons. They can steal them and then sell them to random people if they get the opportunity to.
Semi-auto rifles are not nearly as easy to attain. And even then your friend set up that meeting. He didn't just walk down the street and get it.

And if he did, that's still not a semi-auto rifle.

[Edited on 12.26.2012 11:44 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2012 11:44 PM PDT

Circle Jerkin' I got my wiener workin'

I like how people say firearms have other purpose then to kill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_%28tool%29

  • 12.26.2012 11:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Qbix89
Talking about Sweden is an ultrabannable offense.

Posted by: Achronos
Too bad being completely and utterly wrong isn't a bannable offense.

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Assuming both are semi-automatic, yes. The handgun may be even more so in that case simply due to the mobility it allows that can't be achieved with an AK-47, even with the stock collapsed. Magazine capacity is a non-factor because extended magazines are not hard to come by. Some handguns even come with 30-round mags.
Since when has an AKM had a collapsible stock?


I don't know what an AKM is, but since we're talking about AK-47s-

Collapsible
Folding

The profile of the AK-47 can be lessened to support CQC.
Those aren't AK-47s, what you linked.

AK-47s (or what is actually an AKM, but the media and populace calls an AK-47) don't have folding stocks. They have heavy wood furniture and standard construction.

What you linked are probably tacticool'd AK-74s, or modernised AKMs with plastic furniture and tactilol attachments.

  • 12.26.2012 11:44 PM PDT

so you want a source?


try this

true story


Posted by: Gruntzilla24
Fun fact: There were no mass shootings in 1776
fun fact:
most of the entire US Arsenal used in the revolutionary war, cannons, ships, and errything else was privately owned and lent to the government on a temporary basis.

fun fact: they had more than "muskets" and "kentucky long rifles" at that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapeshot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_gun

  • 12.26.2012 11:45 PM PDT
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All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.


Posted by: Kadoozy

Posted by: Gruntzilla24

Posted by: Kadoozy

Posted by: Gruntzilla24



I have met someone in real life that bought an illegal pistol from some guy on the street. They don't have to be a part of some big "black market" to own illegal weapons. They can steal them and then sell them to random people if they get the opportunity to.
You need new friends.


I don't associate with him anymore, though that doesn't change the fact that he was easily able to walk out and buy one illegally.
LOL. Anyway, back to your point.

It is very true that criminals can get guns from each other without going through the black market. I never denied that.

  • 12.26.2012 11:45 PM PDT

so you want a source?


try this

true story


Posted by: dazarobbo
Posted by: SpartanMk18
Assuming that a criminal somehow obtained the money and ammunition for a mini-gun, I think it would be safe to say that we have bigger problems then a bunch of dangerous hooligans breaking into my home.

At that point, we would have to address why the country has broken down into anarchy and why super humans are breaking into people's homes armed with very heavy mini-guns.
Why would a criminal need money for one? Criminals obtain guns illegally, remember.

ninja wat? a minigun is VERY rare and expensive as all hell.

several hundred thousand dollars just in ammo costs alone.
>3000-4000 RPM of 7.62x51mm NATO
>extremely expensive
>pick both

requires 2-4 car batteries to operate the electric motor.

Heavy as to be comically impractical and not in fact useable by just one man.

there are about 3 transferrable ones in existence. the rest are Military/Gov't./PMCs who train LEOs and SpecOps.

you can't steal a minigun. and if anyone had one you known he wouldn't let go unless he was making serious bank.

also, cite something other than a lie factory.

Brady is not in fact a source of anything other than hilariously (and purposely) wrong info.

see omission does not make truth. ignoring actual factual does not make truth. funding studies and then twisting results by said omission is not truth.

kellerman study was discredited because he admitted antigun bias and because he didn't include statistics he said he did include, thus decreasing cited defensive uses by 1000 fold.

we HAD an AWB from 1994-2004. crime went up, not down. columbine happened during said AWB. one of the two used many 10 round magazines.

  • 12.26.2012 11:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: Qbix89
Talking about Sweden is an ultrabannable offense.

Posted by: Achronos
Too bad being completely and utterly wrong isn't a bannable offense.

Posted by: Potato Joe
I like how people say firearms have other purpose then to kill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_%28tool%29
Because people go around killing people with grappling hook launchers in America?

Well, times are pretty tough over there...

I guess that article proves that guns were not invented as a weapon.

  • 12.26.2012 11:48 PM PDT


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: Kadoozy

Posted by: Gruntzilla24



I have met someone in real life that bought an illegal pistol from some guy on the street. They don't have to be a part of some big "black market" to own illegal weapons. They can steal them and then sell them to random people if they get the opportunity to.
Semi-auto rifles are not nearly as easy to attain. And even then your friend set up that meeting. He didn't just walk down the street and get it.

And if he did, that's still not a semi-auto rifle.


You are implying that an easily concealable semi-auto (since semi-auto is a phrase that likes to be thrown around) pistol is any less dangerous than a semi-auto rifle? I don't even know what to say to that. And as another person pointed out, it isn't difficult to change magazines on the fly. Especially when you can just hide a bunch of them in some coat and pant pockets

  • 12.26.2012 11:48 PM PDT

Circle Jerkin' I got my wiener workin'


Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Assuming both are semi-automatic, yes. The handgun may be even more so in that case simply due to the mobility it allows that can't be achieved with an AK-47, even with the stock collapsed. Magazine capacity is a non-factor because extended magazines are not hard to come by. Some handguns even come with 30-round mags.
Since when has an AKM had a collapsible stock?


I don't know what an AKM is, but since we're talking about AK-47s-

Collapsible
Folding

The profile of the AK-47 can be lessened to support CQC.
Those aren't AK-47s, what you linked.

AK-47s (or what is actually an AKM, but the media and populace calls an AK-47) don't have folding stocks. They have heavy wood furniture and standard construction.

What you linked are probably tacticool'd AK-74s, or modernised AKMs with plastic furniture and tactilol attachments.

What he linked are the AK47 platform. The are not AK74s. You can tell by the magazine and the angle of the gas block.

  • 12.26.2012 11:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Qbix89
Talking about Sweden is an ultrabannable offense.

Posted by: Achronos
Too bad being completely and utterly wrong isn't a bannable offense.

Posted by: Potato Joe
Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Assuming both are semi-automatic, yes. The handgun may be even more so in that case simply due to the mobility it allows that can't be achieved with an AK-47, even with the stock collapsed. Magazine capacity is a non-factor because extended magazines are not hard to come by. Some handguns even come with 30-round mags.
Since when has an AKM had a collapsible stock?


I don't know what an AKM is, but since we're talking about AK-47s-

Collapsible
Folding

The profile of the AK-47 can be lessened to support CQC.
Those aren't AK-47s, what you linked.

AK-47s (or what is actually an AKM, but the media and populace calls an AK-47) don't have folding stocks. They have heavy wood furniture and standard construction.

What you linked are probably tacticool'd AK-74s, or modernised AKMs with plastic furniture and tactilol attachments.

What he linked are the AK47 platform. The are not AK74s. You can tell by the magazine and the angle of the gas block.
It's an AKM then.

  • 12.26.2012 11:50 PM PDT
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All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.


Posted by: SpartanMk18
The police are not there to stop crime anyway, they are there to investigate, and then give evidence to the DA so they can prosecute.

Supreme Court ruled that the Police have no constitutional duty to protect you.
I don't care about what the Constitution intended them to be and neither do they.

If you call the police when you are in danger, they will help you. They won't sit back and say "solve your own problems". That is the reality.

[Edited on 12.26.2012 11:56 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2012 11:54 PM PDT

Circle Jerkin' I got my wiener workin'


Posted by: Gruntzilla24

Posted by: SpartanMk18
The police are not there to stop crime anyway, they are there to investigate, and then give evidence to the DA so they can prosecute.

Supreme Court ruled that the Police have no constitutional duty to protect you.
I don't care about what the Constitution intended them to be and neither do they.

If you call the police when you are in danger, they will help you. They won't sit back and say "solve your own problems". That is the reality.

Okay? That doesn't mean they are going to get there in time to protect you.

  • 12.26.2012 11:58 PM PDT


Posted by: Gruntzilla24
If you call the police when you are in danger, they will help you. I don't give a flying fack about what the founding fathers wanted them to be, I have the good sense to know the reality.


You clearly didn't read his link or even most of his post. And, again, if someone is intent on murdering you then they will do it before the police arrive. There simply is no way around it. You probably wouldn't even get the 911 call off in time if that were the case, but if you had a gun then you at least would have a much better chance of taking him out first.

  • 12.26.2012 11:59 PM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Assuming both are semi-automatic, yes. The handgun may be even more so in that case simply due to the mobility it allows that can't be achieved with an AK-47, even with the stock collapsed. Magazine capacity is a non-factor because extended magazines are not hard to come by. Some handguns even come with 30-round mags.
I thought it was clear we were talking about an automatic AK-47.


I joined the conversation late, but it still doesn't matter because handguns can be automatic.
Not legally they can't be.


Point being what, exactly? Neither can AK-47s. Both can only be automatic with a special, extremely hard-to-get permit, the classification of which escapes me at the moment.

  • 12.27.2012 12:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: Qbix89
Talking about Sweden is an ultrabannable offense.

Posted by: Achronos
Too bad being completely and utterly wrong isn't a bannable offense.

Posted by: Potato Joe
Posted by: Gruntzilla24
Posted by: SpartanMk18
The police are not there to stop crime anyway, they are there to investigate, and then give evidence to the DA so they can prosecute.

Supreme Court ruled that the Police have no constitutional duty to protect you.
I don't care about what the Constitution intended them to be and neither do they.

If you call the police when you are in danger, they will help you. They won't sit back and say "solve your own problems". That is the reality.

Okay? That doesn't mean they are going to get there in time to protect you.
But they should be getting there in time to protect you. That's their job. That's why a police force exists in everywhere except America, to prevent crime, prosecute criminals and ensure the safety of the citizen.

Like I said, if your nearest police officer is 15 minutes away driving at speed and driving with a siren, there is something very wrong with your police force.

  • 12.27.2012 12:01 AM PDT

I am an Xbox Live Ambassador so feel free to hit me up with any questions via PM :)

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Posted by: SpartanMk18
Assault Weapon. Note the stock, pistol grip, bayonet lug, and flash hider. This is clearly an assault weapon. It is a felony in California to attach a magazine greater than 10 rounds.


This AR-!5 actually does not have a flash hider. Its just a standard mussel brake.

  • 12.27.2012 12:01 AM PDT

Circle Jerkin' I got my wiener workin'


Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: Potato Joe
Posted by: Gruntzilla24
Posted by: SpartanMk18
The police are not there to stop crime anyway, they are there to investigate, and then give evidence to the DA so they can prosecute.

Supreme Court ruled that the Police have no constitutional duty to protect you.
I don't care about what the Constitution intended them to be and neither do they.

If you call the police when you are in danger, they will help you. They won't sit back and say "solve your own problems". That is the reality.

Okay? That doesn't mean they are going to get there in time to protect you.
But they should be getting there in time to protect you. That's their job. That's why a police force exists in everywhere except America, to prevent crime, prosecute criminals and ensure the safety of the citizen.

Like I said, if your nearest police officer is 15 minutes away driving at speed and driving with a siren, there is something very wrong with your police force.

Dude maybe in your little backwoods hick town in Australia the police can get to you in time but in a big city it is impossible unless you have an officer on every street corner.

[Edited on 12.27.2012 12:05 AM PST]

  • 12.27.2012 12:03 AM PDT
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Posted by: Qbix89
Talking about Sweden is an ultrabannable offense.

Posted by: Achronos
Too bad being completely and utterly wrong isn't a bannable offense.

Posted by: Potato Joe
Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: Potato Joe
Posted by: Gruntzilla24
Posted by: SpartanMk18
The police are not there to stop crime anyway, they are there to investigate, and then give evidence to the DA so they can prosecute.

Supreme Court ruled that the Police have no constitutional duty to protect you.
I don't care about what the Constitution intended them to be and neither do they.

If you call the police when you are in danger, they will help you. They won't sit back and say "solve your own problems". That is the reality.

Okay? That doesn't mean they are going to get there in time to protect you.
But they should be getting there in time to protect you. That's their job. That's why a police force exists in everywhere except America, to prevent crime, prosecute criminals and ensure the safety of the citizen.

Like I said, if your nearest police officer is 15 minutes away driving at speed and driving with a siren, there is something very wrong with your police force.

Dude maybe in your little backwoods hick town in Australia the police can get to you in time but in a big city it is impossible unless you have an officer on ever street corner.
We don't have a police officer on every corner but we have enough of them that at most it would take them five minutes to respond, not 15.

To take 15 minutes to get somewhere driving at full speed with the siren on, you'd have to be outside the -blam!- city itself. Do you only have one police station in your entire city? In your entire region? Here in Australia we have one police station per suburb and that's how it -blam!- should be.

  • 12.27.2012 12:06 AM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.


Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: Potato Joe
Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

I don't know what an AKM is, but since we're talking about AK-47s-

Collapsible
Folding

The profile of the AK-47 can be lessened to support CQC.
Those aren't AK-47s, what you linked.

AK-47s (or what is actually an AKM, but the media and populace calls an AK-47) don't have folding stocks. They have heavy wood furniture and standard construction.

What you linked are probably tacticool'd AK-74s, or modernised AKMs with plastic furniture and tactilol attachments.

What he linked are the AK47 platform. The are not AK74s. You can tell by the magazine and the angle of the gas block.
It's an AKM then.

It doesn't matter. Any weapon can be modified. How easily that can be done varies. Adding a collapsible stock is probably one of the easiest modifications one can make provided it's not bullpup design.

In any case, this does not detract from my point that pistols allow for more maneuverability in CQC (in this case, a residence) than an AK-47.

Are you just trying to beat your e-chest and show off what you know about AK platforms? Because it seems like that's the case since what you decided to refute really did nothing to detract from my point. If anything, it enhanced it by implying that the profile of an AK-47 cannot be made smaller to be better-suited for CQC. I really don't see what you're trying to argue here.

[Edited on 12.27.2012 12:11 AM PST]

  • 12.27.2012 12:07 AM PDT

Circle Jerkin' I got my wiener workin'


Posted by: Garshne
We don't have a police officer on every corner but we have enough of them that at most it would take them five minutes to respond, not 15.

To take 15 minutes to get somewhere driving at full speed with the siren on, you'd have to be outside the -blam!- city itself. Do you only have one police station in your entire city? In your entire region? Here in Australia we have one police station per suburb and that's how it -blam!- should be.

Does it even cross your mind that police in a big city are not standing around waiting for a call? You have to take in account that most of them are on other calls or assignments.

We are not talking about a suburb in Australia. We are talking about thousands of police in a city of millions of people.

Unless they happen to be around the corner, they are not going to get to you in under five minutes. When someone is breaking into your house, seconds matter, not minutes.

You would be better off having a firearm than not.

[Edited on 12.27.2012 12:13 AM PST]

  • 12.27.2012 12:11 AM PDT

Key


Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Assuming both are semi-automatic, yes. The handgun may be even more so in that case simply due to the mobility it allows that can't be achieved with an AK-47, even with the stock collapsed. Magazine capacity is a non-factor because extended magazines are not hard to come by. Some handguns even come with 30-round mags.
I thought it was clear we were talking about an automatic AK-47.


I joined the conversation late, but it still doesn't matter because handguns can be automatic.
Not legally they can't be.


Point being what, exactly? Neither can AK-47s. Both can only be automatic with a special, extremely hard-to-get permit, the classification of which escapes me at the moment.
And that's stupid. Nobody should have automatic weapons.

  • 12.27.2012 12:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Qbix89
Talking about Sweden is an ultrabannable offense.

Posted by: Achronos
Too bad being completely and utterly wrong isn't a bannable offense.

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: Potato Joe
Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

I don't know what an AKM is, but since we're talking about AK-47s-

Collapsible
Folding

The profile of the AK-47 can be lessened to support CQC.
Those aren't AK-47s, what you linked.

AK-47s (or what is actually an AKM, but the media and populace calls an AK-47) don't have folding stocks. They have heavy wood furniture and standard construction.

What you linked are probably tacticool'd AK-74s, or modernised AKMs with plastic furniture and tactilol attachments.

What he linked are the AK47 platform. The are not AK74s. You can tell by the magazine and the angle of the gas block.
It's an AKM then.

It doesn't matter. Any weapon can be modified. How easily that can be done varies. Adding a collapsible stock is probably one of the easiest modifications one can make provided it's not bullpup design.

In any case, this does not detract from my point that pistols allow for more maneuverability in CQC (in this case, a residence) than an AK-47.

Are you just trying to beat your e-chest and show off what you know about AK platforms? Because it seems like that's the case since what you decided to refute really did nothing to detract from my point. If anything, it enhanced it by implying that the profile of an AK-47 cannot be made smaller to be better-suited for CQC. I really don't see what you're trying to argue here.
What, you thought there was a point other than me saying I do know some -blam!- about guns?

  • 12.27.2012 12:11 AM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.


Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Posted by: Garshne
Posted by: Potato Joe
Posted by: Garshne
Those aren't AK-47s, what you linked.

AK-47s (or what is actually an AKM, but the media and populace calls an AK-47) don't have folding stocks. They have heavy wood furniture and standard construction.

What you linked are probably tacticool'd AK-74s, or modernised AKMs with plastic furniture and tactilol attachments.

What he linked are the AK47 platform. The are not AK74s. You can tell by the magazine and the angle of the gas block.
It's an AKM then.

It doesn't matter. Any weapon can be modified. How easily that can be done varies. Adding a collapsible stock is probably one of the easiest modifications one can make provided it's not bullpup design.

In any case, this does not detract from my point that pistols allow for more maneuverability in CQC (in this case, a residence) than an AK-47.

Are you just trying to beat your e-chest and show off what you know about AK platforms? Because it seems like that's the case since what you decided to refute really did nothing to detract from my point. If anything, it enhanced it by implying that the profile of an AK-47 cannot be made smaller to be better-suited for CQC. I really don't see what you're trying to argue here.
What, you thought there was a point other than me saying I do know some -blam!- about guns?
It just came off like that to me. I don't know. I'm tired. It just seemed like you were trying to argue for the sake of arguing or showing what you know, however informative it was.

  • 12.27.2012 12:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: Qbix89
Talking about Sweden is an ultrabannable offense.

Posted by: Achronos
Too bad being completely and utterly wrong isn't a bannable offense.

Posted by: Potato Joe
Posted by: Garshne
We don't have a police officer on every corner but we have enough of them that at most it would take them five minutes to respond, not 15.

To take 15 minutes to get somewhere driving at full speed with the siren on, you'd have to be outside the -blam!- city itself. Do you only have one police station in your entire city? In your entire region? Here in Australia we have one police station per suburb and that's how it -blam!- should be.

Does it even cross your mind that police in a big city are not standing around waiting for a call? You have to take in account that most of them are on other calls or assignments.

We are not talking about a suburb in Australia. We are talking about thousands of police in a city of millions of people.

Unless they happen to be around the corner, they are not going to get to you in under five minutes. When someone is breaking into your house, seconds matter, not minutes.

You would be better off having a firearm than not.
I live in the sixth largest city in Aussieland, but even in Sydney, the largest city in the country, I can expect the same sort of response time. Especially if I'm in an inner city suburb.

Would I be better off having a gun in Australia? Are you really trying to tell me that?

[Edited on 12.27.2012 12:16 AM PST]

  • 12.27.2012 12:14 AM PDT

~Thread-killer~


Posted by: TheBestTheyHad
Posted by: SpartanMk18
Assault Weapon. Note the stock, pistol grip, bayonet lug, and flash hider. This is clearly an assault weapon. It is a felony in California to attach a magazine greater than 10 rounds.


This AR-!5 actually does not have a flash hider. Its just a standard mussel brake.


That AR-15 is equipped with a flash hider. Muzzle brakes are not standard equipment on any semi-auto rifle, save the anti-material rifles such as the .338 Lapua, .416 CheyTac, and .50 BMG rifles. None of the AR's I sell come factory equipped with Muzzle brakes. The ammo they use doesn't require them, as they aren't that powerful at all.

OT, the term 'assault weapon' is an blatantly stupid political term used to villify certain rifles that look 'scary'. It means nothing to most people with common sense.

  • 12.27.2012 12:19 AM PDT