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This topic has moved here: Subject: Who REALLY won the war in space?
  • Subject: Who REALLY won the war in space?
Subject: Who REALLY won the war in space?

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Humanity one a few encounters before Infinity, only through sheer numbers, which it managed to lose ~3/4 of every time. Truth is, they got smacked.

  • 12.29.2012 6:40 PM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.


Posted by: PermeableProgo

Posted by: Mass Cat
All your examples are UNSC victories by pulling a deux ex or outnumbering the enemy.

Otherwise Covies stomp.

Only the keyes loop broke that cycle.

Post war though. UNSC ships + shields + faster slipspace + other updates = Covie extermination

and are clearly the new power in the galaxy.

That's why Didact came to earth in his luxury ship and raped an entire city while the infinity was -blam!- it self.

  • 12.29.2012 7:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Infinity honestly couldn't have defeated Mantles approach, MAC rounds weren't even damaging it.

  • 12.29.2012 7:45 PM PDT

"Shall we let the Flood consume our holy city? Turn High Charity into another of their wretched hives? No enemy has ever withstood our might. The Flood, too, shall fail."

-Prophet of Truth.


Posted by: Grunt Warchief

Posted by: TallestSpark
The more I think about it the more I start to tell myself that the UNSC, and not the Covenant, won the war in space in the end.

Yes I know it took three or four UNSC ships to destroy one Covenant ship, but overall I still think the UNSC had many major wins. The Unyielding Elephant, destruction of High Charity, the gas planet Admiral Cole nuked to cook the Covenant fleet in orbit, etc.... I really can't remember a time when the UNSC lost at least 150 ships or more in a single battle....

So overall, even though the Covenant won almost every engagement, when you add in Unyielding Elephant(500+ ships), High Charity (1000+ ships) and the fleet destroyed near the gas planet (300 ships) it looks like the covies lost a lot more in space than Humanity did.

Discuss.


The only thing the humans won was to not be totally destroyed. The humans were about to loose and just because the focus was shifted to another enemy and the Covenant split in half it doesnt mean that they suddenly came out on stop in any sort of way.

And how many fleets did the Covenant have in total? Cause im pretty sure loosing a few almost totally wasnt a big dent at all. Even with the forces split in half im sure that each side isnt just made up of a handful of fleet.

I did a quick look in Halopedia and they have 18 known fleets. Anyone got more info on other fleets or the total number of fleets? BTW, the Arbiter's fleet from Halo CE had 300 ships and lost 6 during that battle. So yeah.... the Covenant is waaaaay on top when it comes to ship presence.


I wouldn't say humanity almost lost, more like UNSC almost lost. I read somewhere that prewar there were over 30 billion humans, and post war over 15 billion living in different colonies scattered all over the galaxy.

A good example is that colony in The Thursday War with humans and covies living together... who knows how many colonies out there are like that.

  • 12.29.2012 11:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Well if humanity lost it's government,military body, and homeworld that does indeed count as an official loss. Obviously that doesn't mean humans will stop existing just because.
Well that is a planet full of terrorist and rough bodies so i wouldn't try using that as an example of cohabitation. Rubble is still up and running as far as we know right?

  • 12.29.2012 11:44 PM PDT

"Shall we let the Flood consume our holy city? Turn High Charity into another of their wretched hives? No enemy has ever withstood our might. The Flood, too, shall fail."

-Prophet of Truth.


Posted by: Grunt Warchief

Posted by: TallestSpark
The more I think about it the more I start to tell myself that the UNSC, and not the Covenant, won the war in space in the end.

Yes I know it took three or four UNSC ships to destroy one Covenant ship, but overall I still think the UNSC had many major wins. The Unyielding Elephant, destruction of High Charity, the gas planet Admiral Cole nuked to cook the Covenant fleet in orbit, etc.... I really can't remember a time when the UNSC lost at least 150 ships or more in a single battle....

So overall, even though the Covenant won almost every engagement, when you add in Unyielding Elephant(500+ ships), High Charity (1000+ ships) and the fleet destroyed near the gas planet (300 ships) it looks like the covies lost a lot more in space than Humanity did.

Discuss.


The only thing the humans won was to not be totally destroyed. The humans were about to loose and just because the focus was shifted to another enemy and the Covenant split in half it doesnt mean that they suddenly came out on stop in any sort of way.

And how many fleets did the Covenant have in total? Cause im pretty sure loosing a few almost totally wasnt a big dent at all. Even with the forces split in half im sure that each side isnt just made up of a handful of fleet.

I did a quick look in Halopedia and they have 18 known fleets. Anyone got more info on other fleets or the total number of fleets? BTW, the Arbiter's fleet from Halo CE had 300 ships and lost 6 during that battle. So yeah.... the Covenant is waaaaay on top when it comes to ship presence.


Most of the Covenant's fleet was orbiting High Charity, and most of the ships were obliterated. HOWEVER, I did read somewhere that a couple hundred Sanghelie ships actually stayed behind to quarantine High Charity, but the last ship managed to break through, the one that landed right on Voi.

But the question is, where is this fleet now? The Thursday War takes us to Sanghelios, yet it never mentions a big fleet. If anything, the situation in Sanghelios is worse than on Earth.... as seen in the book. Sanghelie don't know how to build food or repair things, and thanks to Travis Sanghelios only has a couple cruisers. What happened to Arbiters fleet, I have no idea. Perhaps Jul somehow took over them since in Halo 4 and Spartan Ops he seems to have a never ending supply of cruisers.

Also where did you get that number from? Cortana says right at the end of CE that there is nothing left, and that the ENTIRE Covenant armada was obliterated.

  • 12.29.2012 11:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

You don't read the books do you? All of this is talking about in The Flood,First strike, and Ghost of onyx.

  • 12.29.2012 11:52 PM PDT

"Shall we let the Flood consume our holy city? Turn High Charity into another of their wretched hives? No enemy has ever withstood our might. The Flood, too, shall fail."

-Prophet of Truth.


Posted by: grey101
You don't read the books do you? All of this is talking about in The Flood,First strike, and Ghost of onyx.


All of what.....? Elaborate.

  • 12.30.2012 12:01 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The fleet at 05 was split up between brutes and elites fighting the flood along with each other. That engagement pretty much diminished all sides.

Same story for high charity pretty much


  • 12.30.2012 12:17 AM PDT

"Shall we let the Flood consume our holy city? Turn High Charity into another of their wretched hives? No enemy has ever withstood our might. The Flood, too, shall fail."

-Prophet of Truth.


Posted by: grey101
The fleet at 05 was split up between brutes and elites fighting the flood along with each other. That engagement pretty much diminished all sides.

Same story for high charity pretty much




Which is exactly my point, that the Covenant lost a -blam!- ton of ships.

But I was talking about 04, not 05.

  • 12.30.2012 12:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

In the novel "The Flood" covenant reinforcements arrive to the area though i don't recall 300 ships.

  • 12.30.2012 12:26 AM PDT

"Shall we let the Flood consume our holy city? Turn High Charity into another of their wretched hives? No enemy has ever withstood our might. The Flood, too, shall fail."

-Prophet of Truth.


Posted by: grey101
In the novel "The Flood" covenant reinforcements arrive to the area though i don't recall 300 ships.


Meh, either way whatever reinforcements were sent were destroyed, although I wonder how the Arbiter survived.

  • 12.30.2012 12:31 AM PDT

"Shall we let the Flood consume our holy city? Turn High Charity into another of their wretched hives? No enemy has ever withstood our might. The Flood, too, shall fail."

-Prophet of Truth.

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Fleet_of_Particular_Justice

[Edited on 12.30.2012 12:34 AM PST]

  • 12.30.2012 12:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: TallestSpark

Posted by: grey101
In the novel "The Flood" covenant reinforcements arrive to the area though i don't recall 300 ships.


Meh, either way whatever reinforcements were sent were destroyed, although I wonder how the Arbiter survived.
His ship left the system during the flood outbreak i think.

  • 12.30.2012 12:41 AM PDT

"Life to you stepson and everlasting glory. " Thifes World.

You forget to account for automated factories. Not to mention logistics for supplies or new ships being made. Even if they were not making ships on Home worlds they were being made some place else.

I doubt the Covys lost as many ships as UNSC did. Covys had better wepons,better tech and not to mention more sailors and Warriors to throw into the fight.

I thought the fleet of Particular Justice was nine ships. It was part of the large one attacking Reach that fallowed Pillar of Auttum. That comes from HALO C.E. when they enter system and Cortana reports such. She destroys three ships and disables a fourth.

Also some assume it takes five human vessels in a stand up fight. Not always. Keys was outgunned still did keys maneuver destroying four to five ships in a single engagement. Waypoint has allot of info.

He was the Picard of Halo. Warfare constantly evolves this is why the Covys had such a hard time in engagements later on in the war.

Also i have long suspected Prophets were controlling not only poltically but logistically the Covenant forces. Thus Prophets held weapon schematics and ways to make them while building Factories in space ect.

Still the other Covy races possibly would be taking such to keep there forces supplied. I dont care if you have a million man army. If there is not food or bullets enemy is going to win. Not to mention fresh Ships to Armor for soldiers or Warriors.

In the end humanity won with inventive tactics and changing the political game. Yet no one really won. Elites lost faith and allot of ships in a war that was suppose to bury humanity and Forerunner secrets with it.

They are in conflict with those who fallow truths doctrine or have split into different factions.

UNSC took a brutal beating. Quote all the books you like. Covys had far more ships and man power despite a few victories. In WWII Germany stopped Operation:Market Garden. It did not stop them from losing the war. Just keep this in mind though that is real life it is an example of what can happen.

If any one won it was the flood up until the Arc Nearly complte HALO was activated. Still they are a threat due to them being on other HALOs or Forerunner planets.

[Edited on 12.30.2012 4:38 AM PST]

  • 12.30.2012 4:31 AM PDT

You do know that Unyielding Elephant wasn't a space battle right? That was the work of a team of Spartans. Also you only seem to be writing about the fights that the UNSC won. If they were better like you believe then why was 99% of all humans world glassed? Hell look at the battle of Reach, it was the single most powerful human world ever and the covvies had no problem taking it out.

  • 12.30.2012 9:32 AM PDT

Posted by: TallestSpark


I wouldn't say humanity almost lost, more like UNSC almost lost. I read somewhere that prewar there were over 30 billion humans, and post war over 15 billion living in different colonies scattered all over the galaxy.

A good example is that colony in The Thursday War with humans and covies living together... who knows how many colonies out there are like that.


Well, with no army what were the humans going to do?


Posted by: TallestSpark

Most of the Covenant's fleet was orbiting High Charity, and most of the ships were obliterated.


High Charity is protected by the High Charity Fleet. And that doesnt negate of the named Fleets who are not protecting High Charity as they appear through the games and books.

HOWEVER, I did read somewhere that a couple hundred Sanghelie ships actually stayed behind to quarantine High Charity, but the last ship managed to break through, the one that landed right on Voi.

That's probably from Halo 3 when we learned this from Rtas 'Vadum.


But the question is, where is this fleet now? The Thursday War takes us to Sanghelios, yet it never mentions a big fleet. If anything, the situation in Sanghelios is worse than on Earth.... as seen in the book. Sanghelie don't know how to build food or repair things, and thanks to Travis Sanghelios only has a couple cruisers. What happened to Arbiters fleet, I have no idea. Perhaps Jul somehow took over them since in Halo 4 and Spartan Ops he seems to have a never ending supply of cruisers.


Yeah i dont like this weird turn of events at all. Even with no repairs the Elites shouldn't be struggling at all, ships dont magically break and disappear. They should be as strong as ever with the number of ships they have probably loosing as few from too much damage.


Also where did you get that number from? Cortana says right at the end of CE that there is nothing left, and that the ENTIRE Covenant armada was obliterated.


Well like i said in my post from Halopedia. And i dont know what the word Armada means but i cannot mean a whole fleet as SHE says in the game at the very start of the level Keyes that once the flood was discovered all ships were recalled abandoning Halo.

And apparently in Halo:The Flood this was shown as well.
So either we found ourselves a continuity error or something has overwritten something else.

  • 12.30.2012 10:08 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Lol, guys the armada cortana was talking about were the covenant forces on the ring.

  • 12.30.2012 10:26 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
Lol, guys the armada cortana was talking about were the covenant forces on the ring.


Oh, right, there goes that.

  • 12.30.2012 11:48 AM PDT

I enjoy halo for it's story and when I am in the mood, its gameplay. Reach was significantly worse then I expected but was still a great game (minus the european hitscan fiasco). I am sitting on a two mile wide fence on the subject of halo 4. Most of the things I like a technical aspects though and not story or game play. Plus I am slightly mad they took my elites from MP.

Guys stop thinking that because UNSC ships have shields they are automatically better then the Covenant. The Sangheili fleet still numbers hundreds of ships, most abandoned in system dry-dock sure but that's still hundreds of ships. In Thursday war during an interrogation of Jul 'Mdama it was implied that no matter how much technology was on-board the infinity that it would be destroyed if it attempted to assault the orbital defence grid around Sanghelios and that the only reason it kept existing was because Thel allowed the UNSC super ship into Sangheili orbital space. Also don't forget that most Covenant hulls could take more damage then their shields so don't be surprised if it turns out to be relatively easy to remove infinity's shielding as possibly demonstrated during the soft landing when infinity landed of requiem.

  • 01.01.2013 6:58 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: trojanlord95
Guys stop thinking that because UNSC ships have shields they are automatically better then the Covenant. The Sangheili fleet still numbers hundreds of ships, most abandoned in system dry-dock sure but that's still hundreds of ships. In Thursday war during an interrogation of Jul 'Mdama it was implied that no matter how much technology was on-board the infinity that it would be destroyed if it attempted to assault the orbital defence grid around Sanghelios and that the only reason it kept existing was because Thel allowed the UNSC super ship into Sangheili orbital space. Also don't forget that most Covenant hulls could take more damage then their shields so don't be surprised if it turns out to be relatively easy to remove infinity's shielding as possibly demonstrated during the soft landing when infinity landed of requiem.



1. Shields were the only reason we were losing so much. If we had them or they didn't we would have won ASAP.

2. Can you tell me what tactics the elites used in space? As far as i am aware they only bum rushed with the strongest ship and some numbers. That is always how the covenant have worked, bum rush.

3.Um, wtf? What "orbital defenses"? Has jul even seen infinity? I don't recall him ever seeing the ship until halo 4. You are a moron for thinking that infinity alone couldn't waste that entire system which makes karen an idiot building all this hate up and not having anybody act on it other than jul.

You might want to read the book again, i remember both lord and hood being pissed about maggie Macing the effing planet. you are insane if you think that is what the arbiter was thinking of in terms of support.


4. Um, no they can't and you might want to read like every novel over again. The shields were the main edge the covenant had on us as they didn't use slipspace to their advantage in battle (despite what was said). You did see how a frigate destroyed a cruiser with one shot in sparton ops right? It was actually stated that the hull was brittle and no stronger than what the UNSC uses.


5. Please tell me how such a large ship crashing at any state is a "soft landing". Do you have the brain capacity to understand the reason the ship wasn't so effed up was probably because of the shields? which obviously took the blow since they were still down for the next level.

  • 01.01.2013 7:07 AM PDT

During Infinity's crash landing shields might not have been a factor. Sure we see the shields and down or at low levels but that could be caused by the Didact's scan (or whatever that was) or that the crew tried rerouting power to the engines.

  • 01.01.2013 8:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: agent wash282
During Infinity's crash landing shields might not have been a factor. Sure we see the shields and down or at low levels but that could be caused by the Didact's scan (or whatever that was) or that the crew tried rerouting power to the engines.



I was talking about it not being so damaged, it crashed because it got sucked into the gravity well.

  • 01.01.2013 8:54 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101


1. Shields were the only reason we were losing so much. If we had them or they didn't we would have won ASAP.



They still have numbers and plasma weaponry over the UNSC. And stealth, and speed, and their troops are pretty much all tougher than humans besides the spartans, and etc, etc.

The War would have been different but i dont think it would be that different.

  • 01.01.2013 12:27 PM PDT

What a waste....

On the automated factories: there is only one we know of, and it was on High Charity. That was the MP DLC level from Halo 3 where you see a cruiser being made. In GoO we do hear about a shipyard where the S-IIIs are deployed to destroy. But these were expressed to be on the edge of Covenant-occupied space, and for the most part as we know, the S-IIIs destroyed them.

  • 01.01.2013 12:46 PM PDT