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  • Subject: Superman vs Goku
Subject: Superman vs Goku
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I'm not entirely certain but I think Super Saiyan and all of its many, many upgrades increases overall power and Ki output but not specifically strength output.

That said, Ki is used for pretty much anything superhuman in the DBverse, including super strength, so I guess it could be used as a strength multiplier.

  • 12.31.2012 7:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: FloodForum Ruler
Doesn't matter how much Supes can lift. Goku has the 10x Kahmahahahahaha or whatever, and the Spirit Bomb.


Neither of those would do much more than annoy Superman at best.

  • 12.31.2012 7:54 AM PDT

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Posted by: FloodForum Ruler
Doesn't matter how much Supes can lift. Goku has the 10x Kahmahahahahaha or whatever, and the Spirit Bomb.

...which takes forever to charge up, and by then Supes would have turned him into a Saiyan slushie, and gone off to bang Lois Lane.

Besides, he's tanked supernovas before. What makes anyone in their right mind think a Spirit Bomb is going to affect Superman in any way?

  • 12.31.2012 7:54 AM PDT

Get ruled.


Posted by: WEE MAN MJJC

Posted by: FloodForum Ruler
Doesn't matter how much Supes can lift. Goku has the 10x Kahmahahahahaha or whatever, and the Spirit Bomb.

...which takes forever to charge up, and by then Supes would have turned him into a Saiyan slushie, and gone off to bang Lois Lane.

Besides, he's tanked supernovas before. What makes anyone in their right mind think a Spirit Bomb is going to affect Superman in any way?


The Final Kahamaehahahaha is stronger than the Big Bang Kahamamamaama which is stronger than a Universal Spirit Bomb (powered by the whole universe). I think it might do more than a supernova.

  • 12.31.2012 7:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: FloodForum Ruler

Posted by: WEE MAN MJJC

Posted by: FloodForum Ruler
Doesn't matter how much Supes can lift. Goku has the 10x Kahmahahahahaha or whatever, and the Spirit Bomb.

...which takes forever to charge up, and by then Supes would have turned him into a Saiyan slushie, and gone off to bang Lois Lane.

Besides, he's tanked supernovas before. What makes anyone in their right mind think a Spirit Bomb is going to affect Superman in any way?


The Final Kahamaehahahaha is stronger than the Big Bang Kahamamamaama which is stronger than a Universal Spirit Bomb (powered by the whole universe). I think it might do more than a supernova.


'Final' Kamehameha? Pretty sure that was a video game attack.

Big Bang Kamehameha was Gogeta's move.

And neither of them are as powerful as a Spirit Bomb.

And as Wee Man pointed out, the Spirit Bomb takes like an hour to charge up, basically making it Goku's most impractical and useless attack despite being his most powerful by far.

And none of them are as powerful as a supernova.

  • 12.31.2012 8:00 AM PDT

Get ruled.


Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: FloodForum Ruler

Posted by: WEE MAN MJJC

Posted by: FloodForum Ruler
Doesn't matter how much Supes can lift. Goku has the 10x Kahmahahahahaha or whatever, and the Spirit Bomb.

...which takes forever to charge up, and by then Supes would have turned him into a Saiyan slushie, and gone off to bang Lois Lane.

Besides, he's tanked supernovas before. What makes anyone in their right mind think a Spirit Bomb is going to affect Superman in any way?


The Final Kahamaehahahaha is stronger than the Big Bang Kahamamamaama which is stronger than a Universal Spirit Bomb (powered by the whole universe). I think it might do more than a supernova.


'Final' Kamehameha? Pretty sure that was a video game attack.

Big Bang Kamehameha was Gogeta's move.

And neither of them are as powerful as a Spirit Bomb.

And as Wee Man pointed out, the Spirit Bomb takes like an hour to charge up, basically making it Goku's most impractical and useless attack despite being his most powerful by far.

And none of them are as powerful as a supernova.


Well Vegito used the Final Kamehameha as a Super Saiyan and Gogeta used the Big Bang Kamehameha as a Super Saiyan 4. So judging by the characters that they are used by then the Big Bang Kamehameha wins hands down.
Then of course, the Final Kamehameha failed to destroy a weakened Buu but the Big Bang Kamehameha almost destroyed a fully powered Sin Shenron and if the fusion hadn't run out just as the second was about to be fired it would have finished Sin permanantly, something that only the Spirit Bomb with energy from the entire universe managed.
Therefore the Big Bang Kamehameha was far more powerful.


Actually SSJ4 was used in this therefore powering up the Big Bang Kamehameha SSJ gogeta is known to do it but cannot for some reason the creators didnt add it in Final Kamehameha failed to destroy buu yes and sin shenron is indeed stronger but Gt isn't official so SSJ4 couldn't hardly exist But if they fused against Buu by fusion dance And did the big bang kamehameha It wouldn't destroy buu either but if GT were offical And Vegito was in it and could go ssj4 than there would be a difference Big bang attack is weaker than final flash Kamehameha is powerfull and I belive it was said that The potara fusion was 10x stronger than the fusion dance (I belive so if im wrong correct me) Thus resulting in Final kamehameha With ssj4 Vs Big Bang Kamehameha in ssj4 There wouldn't be much of a power difference but Final Kamehameha has slight more power than big bang kamehameha.

And the 10x is stronger than the big bang kamehameha. Which means it is stronger than a universal spirit bomb.

Also, Goku can also destroy more than just planets. Cell was able to destroy the Solar System, Goku is even more powerful than Cell, plus Goku can also move at light speed and is also a martial arts expert. SSJ3 Gotenks was able to rip a hole in the dimension by yelling. Goku, being more powerful than Gotenks, should also be capable of doing so. And in the end of GT, Goku left with Shenron and after 100 years who knows just how powerful he became? Considering that Goku can become insanely stronger in a couple of years. And that's only in his base form. All of his SSJ forms make him even much more powerful.

  • 12.31.2012 8:06 AM PDT

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Posted by: FloodForum Ruler
Goku has the 10x Kahmahahahahaha

In the Coolers Revenge movie. Cooler ended up flying through probably a 20x one. It didn't harm him at all or slow him down. So if the gap between Superman and Goku is like that. It's going to be harmless.

And the Spirit Bomb.
-The spirit bomb is pretty much useless because of the time it takes to charge up.

-When he does throw it it moves slowly. Hew can do the Instant Spirit Bomb: Is a combination of the Instant Transmission and Spirit Bomb used by Goku in his Super Saiyan form. After Goku has gathered enough energy, he throws the Spirit Bomb towards the opponent. Then, he uses Instant Transmission to appear in front of the opponent and punch them in the face before teleporting away. The powerful punch delivered by Goku distracts the opponent long enough for the slow moving Spirit Bomb to successfully hit them.
But the problem about that is his punch will probably not do any good against Superman.

-The power depends on the amount of energy you have in an area. So if they are fighting in an area that doesn't have much energy to give. The bomb is not going to be all that powerful. Also it's

  • 12.31.2012 8:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: FloodForum Ruler
Well Vegito used the Final Kamehameha as a Super Saiyan and Gogeta used the Big Bang Kamehameha as a Super Saiyan 4. So judging by the characters that they are used by then the Big Bang Kamehameha wins hands down.


Neither Vegito nor Gogeta would fare any better against Superman.

Then of course, the Final Kamehameha failed to destroy a weakened Buu but the Big Bang Kamehameha almost destroyed a fully powered Sin Shenron and if the fusion hadn't run out just as the second was about to be fired it would have finished Sin permanantly, something that only the Spirit Bomb with energy from the entire universe managed.
Therefore the Big Bang Kamehameha was far more powerful.


No, it shows it's roughly as powerful as a Spirit Bomb, but there's nothing proving it's more powerful by any significant degree.

Actually SSJ4 was used in this therefore powering up the Big Bang Kamehameha SSJ gogeta is known to do it but cannot for some reason the creators didnt add it in Final Kamehameha failed to destroy buu yes and sin shenron is indeed stronger but Gt isn't official so SSJ4 couldn't hardly exist

I'll be honest, I have no clue what you just said.

But if they fused against Buu by fusion dance And did the big bang kamehameha It wouldn't destroy buu either but if GT were offical And Vegito was in it and could go ssj4 than there would be a difference Big bang attack is weaker than final flash Kamehameha is powerfull and I belive it was said that The potara fusion was 10x stronger than the fusion dance (I belive so if im wrong correct me)

It's more powerful in that it's permanent whereas the Fusion Dance only lasts half an hour, but other than that it was never stated that one fusion was more outright powerful than the other.

Thus resulting in Final kamehameha With ssj4 Vs Big Bang Kamehameha in ssj4 There wouldn't be much of a power difference but Final Kamehameha has slight more power than big bang kamehameha.

Wait, what? When did we start this conversation?

And the 10x is stronger than the big bang kamehameha. Which means it is stronger than a universal spirit bomb.

Uh...okay?

Also, Goku can also destroy more than just planets. Cell was able to destroy the Solar System,

With a fully powered Kamehameha, yes.

Goku is even more powerful than Cell, plus Goku can also move at light speed

Via Instant Transmission.

and is also a martial arts expert.

Superman was trained by Muhammad Ali.

I'm not even joking.

SSJ3 Gotenks was able to rip a hole in the dimension by yelling.

An 'energy scream' and to a dimension literally right outside the one he was in.

Goku, being more powerful than Gotenks,

He isn't, actually. Super Saiyan Gotenks was about as powerful as Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

should also be capable of doing so. And in the end of GT, Goku left with Shenron and after 100 years who knows just how powerful he became?

Who knows, indeed.

Considering that Goku can become insanely stronger in a couple of years. And that's only in his base form. All of his SSJ forms make him even much more powerful.

Yes they do. But he never fought after the 100 years, so we can't accurately gauge how strong he got.

And he'd probably still lose to Superman.

[Edited on 12.31.2012 9:04 AM PST]

  • 12.31.2012 9:04 AM PDT

What are these first person words you speak of?

Depends. We know physical strength can hurt Superman, but is Goku strong enough?

We also know Superman is weak against magic, but should all of the energy attacks Goku uses be considered as such?

  • 12.31.2012 9:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: Teh puma
Depends. We know physical strength can hurt Superman, but is Goku strong enough?

We also know Superman is weak against magic, but should all of the energy attacks Goku uses be considered as such?


It's not magic, it's ki.

And When Superman can tank Supernova, Goku's strength of around 16,000 tons isn't gonna do much to him.

  • 12.31.2012 9:16 AM PDT


Posted by: Teh puma
Depends. We know physical strength can hurt Superman, but is Goku strong enough?

We also know Superman is weak against magic, but should all of the energy attacks Goku uses be considered as such?


Ki is universal life essence, not magic.

The only thing magical Goku has is his power pole, like a training stick, but the only thing magical about it is that it can extend to infinite lengths, nothing directly offensive. I personally disagree with Superman's vunerability to it in the Deathbattle preview, but whatever. He survived it anyway.

  • 12.31.2012 9:22 AM PDT

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  • 12.31.2012 9:24 AM PDT

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Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Teh puma
Depends. We know physical strength can hurt Superman, but is Goku strong enough?

We also know Superman is weak against magic, but should all of the energy attacks Goku uses be considered as such?


Ki is universal life essence, not magic.

The only thing magical Goku has is his power pole, like a training stick, but the only thing magical about it is that it can extend to infinite lengths, nothing directly offensive. I personally disagree with Superman's vunerability to it in the Deathbattle preview, but whatever. He survived it anyway.



Wait, did you say infinite lengths?

And Goku can wield it at any length? Doesn't that mean he, theoretically, can lift an infinitely heavy object?

  • 12.31.2012 9:25 AM PDT


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Teh puma
Depends. We know physical strength can hurt Superman, but is Goku strong enough?

We also know Superman is weak against magic, but should all of the energy attacks Goku uses be considered as such?


Ki is universal life essence, not magic.

The only thing magical Goku has is his power pole, like a training stick, but the only thing magical about it is that it can extend to infinite lengths, nothing directly offensive. I personally disagree with Superman's vunerability to it in the Deathbattle preview, but whatever. He survived it anyway.



Wait, did you say infinite lengths?

And Goku can wield it at any length? Doesn't that mean he, theoretically, can lift an infinitely heavy object?


Infinite potential lengths like Hulk's strength. I don't know of any upper limit to the weapon's extension, so theoretically it's infinite. Though as far as I know it's weight doesn't increase, on account of it being a magic stick.

[Edited on 12.31.2012 9:32 AM PST]

  • 12.31.2012 9:31 AM PDT

What are these first person words you speak of?


Posted by: The Fat Man 3000

Posted by: Teh puma
Depends. We know physical strength can hurt Superman, but is Goku strong enough?

We also know Superman is weak against magic, but should all of the energy attacks Goku uses be considered as such?


It's not magic, it's ki.

And When Superman can tank Supernova, Goku's strength of around 16,000 tons isn't gonna do much to him.


That was point of the question, should ki be labeled as magic?

Also, gonna have to call you out on those wieghts. Goku lifted 16,000 tons back on Kai planets, which was a pretty freaking long time ago. Goku has gotten more than used to 100x gravity by the end of that arc. Not only that, but Goku was training with speed in mind, which lets be honest, if you've ever tried to go for quick pumps outward when using weights, typically it can be much more difficult than simply lifting.

This puts him at above 16,000 tons in the first place, but we just don't know how far.

Not only that, but it's well known that each trasnformation sky rockets their strength. By SSJ4 Goku lifts entire city blocks almost with ease, and he was hardly putting half of his effort into it, if even that.

Some people have done the math, although teh puma isn't sure how credible they are, as they never stated where they got the numbers from.

  • 12.31.2012 9:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: Teh puma
Also, gonna have to call you out on those wieghts. Goku lifted 16,000 tons back on Kai planets, which was a pretty freaking long time ago. Goku has gotten more than used to 100x gravity by the end of that arc. Not only that, but Goku was training with speed in mind, which lets be honest, if you've ever tried to go for quick pumps outward when using weights, typically it can be much more difficult than simply lifting.


You see I'm going to have to stop you right here. The 40 ton weights happened at the beginning of the Majin Buu Saga, which in terms of canon, is Goku's strongest.

  • 12.31.2012 9:43 AM PDT

What are these first person words you speak of?


Posted by: The Fat Man 3000

Posted by: Teh puma
Also, gonna have to call you out on those wieghts. Goku lifted 16,000 tons back on Kai planets, which was a pretty freaking long time ago. Goku has gotten more than used to 100x gravity by the end of that arc. Not only that, but Goku was training with speed in mind, which lets be honest, if you've ever tried to go for quick pumps outward when using weights, typically it can be much more difficult than simply lifting.


You see I'm going to have to stop you right here. The 40 ton weights happened at the beginning of the Majin Buu Saga, which in terms of canon, is Goku's strongest.


Canon? Teh puma feels like we have been over this before. Until teh puma sees direct word from the primary writers that GT isn't canon, he will consider it canon.

  • 12.31.2012 9:48 AM PDT
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Posted by: Teh puma

Posted by: The Fat Man 3000

Posted by: Teh puma
Also, gonna have to call you out on those wieghts. Goku lifted 16,000 tons back on Kai planets, which was a pretty freaking long time ago. Goku has gotten more than used to 100x gravity by the end of that arc. Not only that, but Goku was training with speed in mind, which lets be honest, if you've ever tried to go for quick pumps outward when using weights, typically it can be much more difficult than simply lifting.


You see I'm going to have to stop you right here. The 40 ton weights happened at the beginning of the Majin Buu Saga, which in terms of canon, is Goku's strongest.


Canon? Teh puma feels like we have been over this before. Until teh puma sees direct word from the primary writers that GT isn't canon, he will consider it canon.


Well if you wanna say GT counts then let me refer you to my post to Charlie regarding his strength by the end of GT.

There isn't any way to indicate how much stronger SSJ4 is compared to SSJ3. However, as you have to turn into the massive ape, I suspect that SSJ4 is 500x stronger than base form, due to the 10x power increase in ape form and then I assumed doing the same thing which allowed you to go super got you SSJ4, which would be 50x. But this is mere guess work.

However, at the beginning of GT you see Goku fighting equal with uub, you see him fighting equal level with uub, who was as strong as kid buu at full power. And as he fought equally with kid buu at SSJ3, that means Goku normally in GT is 400x stronger. So 16,000 times 400 would equal 6,400,00 tons. Times that by 500 in SSJ4 and you get 3200000000 tons.

  • 12.31.2012 9:50 AM PDT

What are these first person words you speak of?


Posted by: The Fat Man 3000

Posted by: Teh puma

Posted by: The Fat Man 3000

Posted by: Teh puma
Also, gonna have to call you out on those wieghts. Goku lifted 16,000 tons back on Kai planets, which was a pretty freaking long time ago. Goku has gotten more than used to 100x gravity by the end of that arc. Not only that, but Goku was training with speed in mind, which lets be honest, if you've ever tried to go for quick pumps outward when using weights, typically it can be much more difficult than simply lifting.


You see I'm going to have to stop you right here. The 40 ton weights happened at the beginning of the Majin Buu Saga, which in terms of canon, is Goku's strongest.


Canon? Teh puma feels like we have been over this before. Until teh puma sees direct word from the primary writers that GT isn't canon, he will consider it canon.


Well if you wanna say GT counts then let me refer you to my post to Charlie regarding his strength by the end of GT.

There isn't any way to indicate how much stronger SSJ4 is compared to SSJ3. However, as you have to turn into the massive ape, I suspect that SSJ4 is 500x stronger than base form, due to the 10x power increase in ape form and then I assumed doing the same thing which allowed you to go super got you SSJ4, which would be 50x. But this is mere guess work.

However, at the beginning of GT you see Goku fighting equal with uub, you see him fighting equal level with uub, who was as strong as kid buu at full power. And as he fought equally with kid buu at SSJ3, that means Goku normally in GT is 400x stronger. So 16,000 times 400 would equal 6,400,00 tons. Times that by 500 in SSJ4 and you get 3200000000 tons.


And much like the link teh puma gave you, that is based off of assumptions.

You know what, until someone can give some solid lines on Goku's strength, teh puma isn't gonna take a position on this.

  • 12.31.2012 9:53 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Where did you get your facts about this?

I'd like to know where the day in day out (NOT SUPERMAN PRIME) Superman has infinite strength, and where Goku, at his highest level of transformation can only lift 16,000 tons.

The force from Goku hitting other people shakes the entire planet. The whole planet. Think about that, his punch to another person, the shock waves shake and entire planet, and you are saying he can only lift 16,000.

Goku is actually capable of FTL. He moves faster than light. And that isn't instant transmission. That's his fighting speed. Furthermore, he's capable of speeding up his frame of reference so that he can see things moving at FTL. That's how he's always able to follow a fight when its so fast that's its invisible to everyone else.

Sorry, Supes is going down. He could probably outsmart Goku. Maybe Superman could use his brain to beat Goku, but not in a fight.

Superman
-Strength: Infinite. In Final Crisis Superman and Captain Marvel lift a book with infinite pages. Even if each page has 0.000000000000001g of mass it still becomes infinite mass. Meaning both Superman and Captain Marvel's strength is infinite in main continuity DC canon.

-Speed: Faster than light. Superman flies to Saturn in four minutes.

Saturn is 1,400,000,000km from the sun. So 1,400,000,000,000 metres. Take Superman 240 seconds to get there. 1,400,000,000,000 / 240 = 5,833,333,333,333.3...m/s. Light speed is 299,792,458m/s. Making Superman considerably faster than light.

Goku
-Strength: 16,000 tonnes, to anywhere well under infinite depending on how you measure.

Base form Goku lifts a max of 40 tonnes. This is learned from training on other world where King Kai loads up Goku with 40 tonnes of weight, at which point Goku becomes unable to move.

Super Saiyan form boosts power 50 fold. Then Super Saiyan 2 doubles it, and Super Saiyan 3 quadruples it. I did my math very wrong the first time with that post though because I forgot to stack the forms, it should be this:

Base Form, 40 tonnes. Super Saiyan, 2000. Super Saiyan 2, 100,000. Super Saiyan 3, 5,000,000. Which is a good bit less than infinite tonnes.

-Speed: 1,041,500,000 km/h (under light speed which is 1,079,252,850km/h).

In Saiyan saga Goku's power level is somewhere between 9000-10,000 after Kai's training. Snake way is 1,000,000 km and he traveled it in two days, so he was traveling 20,830 km/h. That's a whole lot less than light speed which is 1080 million km/h.

But if top speed at 9000 was 20,830 km/h and Goku's power level at Super Saiyan 3 is 450,000,000 then the fastest he ever was in manga canon would have been (assuming one power level grants a fixed amount of speed and they stack with more added):

One power level is 2.31 k/h of speed. 450,000,000 times 2.31 is 1,041,500,000 km/h for Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Which is still just under light speed.

[Edited on 12.31.2012 9:55 AM PST]

  • 12.31.2012 9:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: Teh puma
You know what, until someone can give some solid lines on Goku's strength, teh puma isn't gonna take a position on this.


Well when it comes to the manga Goku, like I said Superman clearly wins.

Also refer to the post above mine ^

[Edited on 12.31.2012 9:56 AM PST]

  • 12.31.2012 9:55 AM PDT
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Why don't you guys just wait for the Superman vs Goku movie to come out?

  • 12.31.2012 9:56 AM PDT

Here's a better question: Why would they even fight each other? Both are noble, good heroes who only fight to destroy evil, not for any other readon, and especially not to appease some random people on an internet forum.

  • 12.31.2012 10:01 AM PDT

What are these first person words you speak of?


Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Where did you get your facts about this?

I'd like to know where the day in day out (NOT SUPERMAN PRIME) Superman has infinite strength, and where Goku, at his highest level of transformation can only lift 16,000 tons.

The force from Goku hitting other people shakes the entire planet. The whole planet. Think about that, his punch to another person, the shock waves shake and entire planet, and you are saying he can only lift 16,000.

Goku is actually capable of FTL. He moves faster than light. And that isn't instant transmission. That's his fighting speed. Furthermore, he's capable of speeding up his frame of reference so that he can see things moving at FTL. That's how he's always able to follow a fight when its so fast that's its invisible to everyone else.

Sorry, Supes is going down. He could probably outsmart Goku. Maybe Superman could use his brain to beat Goku, but not in a fight.

Superman
-Strength: Infinite. In Final Crisis Superman and Captain Marvel lift a book with infinite pages. Even if each page has 0.000000000000001g of mass it still becomes infinite mass. Meaning both Superman and Captain Marvel's strength is infinite in main continuity DC canon.

-Speed: Faster than light. Superman flies to Saturn in four minutes.

Saturn is 1,400,000,000km from the sun. So 1,400,000,000,000 metres. Take Superman 240 seconds to get there. 1,400,000,000,000 / 240 = 5,833,333,333,333.3...m/s. Light speed is 299,792,458m/s. Making Superman considerably faster than light.

Goku
-Strength: 16,000 tonnes, to anywhere well under infinite depending on how you measure.

Base form Goku lifts a max of 40 tonnes. This is learned from training on other world where King Kai loads up Goku with 40 tonnes of weight, at which point Goku becomes unable to move.

Super Saiyan form boosts power 50 fold. Then Super Saiyan 2 doubles it, and Super Saiyan 3 quadruples it. I did my math very wrong the first time with that post though because I forgot to stack the forms, it should be this:

Base Form, 40 tonnes. Super Saiyan, 2000. Super Saiyan 2, 100,000. Super Saiyan 3, 5,000,000. Which is a good bit less than infinite tonnes.

-Speed: 1,041,500,000 km/h (under light speed which is 1,079,252,850km/h).

In Saiyan saga Goku's power level is somewhere between 9000-10,000 after Kai's training. Snake way is 1,000,000 km and he traveled it in two days, so he was traveling 20,830 km/h. That's a whole lot less than light speed which is 1080 million km/h.

But if top speed at 9000 was 20,830 km/h and Goku's power level at Super Saiyan 3 is 450,000,000 then the fastest he ever was in manga canon would have been (assuming one power level grants a fixed amount of speed and they stack with more added):

One power level is 2.31 k/h of speed. 450,000,000 times 2.31 is 1,041,500,000 km/h for Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Which is still just under light speed.


Gravity on the kai worlds is higher, however. So wouldn't 40 become higher? Not only that, but Goku wasn't lifting, he was punching.

Both of these are why there is too much grey area atm. Clarify them if you want, however.

  • 12.31.2012 10:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: Blacknight159
Here's a better question: Why would they even fight each other? Both are noble, good heroes who only fight to destroy evil, not for any other readon, and especially not to appease some random people on an internet forum.


Because Goku never fights to test his own strength.

  • 12.31.2012 10:02 AM PDT