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This topic has moved here: Subject: Utah teachers are being trained to use guns.
  • Subject: Utah teachers are being trained to use guns.
Subject: Utah teachers are being trained to use guns.

Personally, I prefer the idea of armed and trained security teams being placed in schools as a reactionary force against extreme violence(a.k.a. an armed man/child) or credible threats of extreme violence.

On the topic of gun control, the U.S. is nothing like Japan, the U.K., or Canada. We have a very large country with a very large population, with a very, VERY, large number of guns already in the country, right on the border of Mexico, a country that already smuggles drugs across the border regularly.

  • 12.30.2012 9:40 PM PDT

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As long as the teachers don't turn crazy, this is a good idea.

/IMO

  • 12.30.2012 9:41 PM PDT

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Posted by: TopWargamer
As long as the teachers don't turn crazy, this is a good idea.

/IMO


You see, my worry isn't about rogue teachers. They have always had access to guns. Its not like having one in the cabinet will make them flip out.

I am worried that suicide by teacher will become as common as suicide by cop. Now, picture your first grade teacher, trying to take down a shooter, WITHOUT HITTING THE OTHER STUDENTS.

Can you picture that? I can't.

  • 12.30.2012 9:43 PM PDT

If we disagree, it's nothing personal, opinions are opinions.
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  • 12.30.2012 9:44 PM PDT


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: TopWargamer
As long as the teachers don't turn crazy, this is a good idea.

/IMO


You see, my worry isn't about rogue teachers. They have always had access to guns. Its not like having one in the cabinet will make them flip out.

I am worried that suicide by teacher will become as common as suicide by cop. Now, picture your first grade teacher, trying to take down a shooter, WITHOUT HITTING THE OTHER STUDENTS.

Can you picture that? I can't.


I can. In fact, I can picture it both ways.

  • 12.30.2012 9:45 PM PDT

~Thread-killer~


Posted by: Fire of the Rose
What a waste of money.

And having guns in close proximity to students? Yeah, good idea.


Kids used to bring guns to school in their trucks and cars all the time in decades past, yet mass shootings were exceedingly rare. Hell, in some places, like my area, kids still do, since most go hunting after shoot lets out.

Mass shootings are a recent occurrence, yet we've had guns for centuries. Weapons are not the problem, people are.

  • 12.30.2012 9:49 PM PDT

Signatures are for little kids.

The smartest thing to do would find all these 'people' who are fixin to do some shootin' and give them a fair amount of shootin' first.

YEEEE HAAAA!!!!

  • 12.30.2012 9:54 PM PDT

so you want a source?


try this

true story


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: TopWargamer
As long as the teachers don't turn crazy, this is a good idea.

/IMO


You see, my worry isn't about rogue teachers. They have always had access to guns. Its not like having one in the cabinet will make them flip out.

I am worried that suicide by teacher will become as common as suicide by cop. Now, picture your first grade teacher, trying to take down a shooter, WITHOUT HITTING THE OTHER STUDENTS.

Can you picture that? I can't.
>5 year old
>suicidal shooter
>what in the califailia are you on?
>what is Concealed Carry
>what is retention holster
>what is historical and legal precedent
>what is mormon prosecution by US Army?

  • 12.30.2012 10:12 PM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

Please allow me to introduce Myself
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Stole many a man's soul and faith


Posted by: ShotgunTroll

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: TopWargamer
As long as the teachers don't turn crazy, this is a good idea.

/IMO


You see, my worry isn't about rogue teachers. They have always had access to guns. Its not like having one in the cabinet will make them flip out.

I am worried that suicide by teacher will become as common as suicide by cop. Now, picture your first grade teacher, trying to take down a shooter, WITHOUT HITTING THE OTHER STUDENTS.

Can you picture that? I can't.
>5 year old
>suicidal shooter
>what in the califailia are you on?
>what is Concealed Carry
>what is retention holster
>what is historical and legal precedent
>what is mormon prosecution by US Army?


What's with the > before each line? It gives the reader a headache.

And Suicide by Cop is a very well defined phenomenon. If we arm teachers, my worry is that troubled students (the older ones) would bring a gun to class so a teacher would put them down.

  • 12.30.2012 10:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: ShotgunTroll


uh, no, genius. i'm factually based, but nice try.Anyone can say that. Both sides of the argument are giving facts and explaining why the other side's is BS. So unless you're some kind of all-knowing emotionless alien, we're on the same page here.

brady campaign= outright lies, lies by omission, misstated and misphrashed facts, appeals to emotion and outright ignoring anything to the contrary.HA! Apparently telling America that we can fix our problems is lie, and that it's a lie that we're better than 12,000 gun murders a year. For more on lies and controlling government, look up the following three letters: N R A

you see it is you, being closemined and unwilling to seek facts that you don't understand.Your username has more truth than your words: You must be trolling.

Since when are people on your side of the argument inherently open minded? People like myself in favor of gun control have offered ideas that would help to prevent gun crime, and you say no. Not because they won't work, but because you're caught up in some kind of delusion. I don't care what is being changed or who it will impact, if your right to bear arms is trumping another person's right to live, we have to act.

any time an actual fact is presented "hurr you dumb redneck conspiracy theorist, go listen to more ebul NRA." is typically your kind's response."Your kind"

I'll leave it at that.

do you even know who Andrew Kehoe was or what he did?Yup

do you know about Oklahoma City? that was from Fertilizer.We're not proposing a plan to end violence, we're trying to save lives from gun crime. If you don't support the simple changes we're proposing, you're doing it wrong.

  • 12.30.2012 10:20 PM PDT


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: TopWargamer
As long as the teachers don't turn crazy, this is a good idea.

/IMO


You see, my worry isn't about rogue teachers. They have always had access to guns. Its not like having one in the cabinet will make them flip out.

I am worried that suicide by teacher will become as common as suicide by cop. Now, picture your first grade teacher, trying to take down a shooter, WITHOUT HITTING THE OTHER STUDENTS.

Can you picture that? I can't.

Well when we go on lock down the kids crowd the corner and there is usually one door. If the teacher stands infront of the kids they don't have to worry about shooting the kids.

  • 12.30.2012 10:21 PM PDT
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All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
And Suicide by Cop is a very well defined phenomenon. If we arm teachers, my worry is that troubled students (the older ones) would bring a gun to class so a teacher would put them down.
Common sense?

We got a badass over here

  • 12.30.2012 10:21 PM PDT

Regardless of whether this is a good idea or not, what about movie theatres? And shopping centres? And parks? And everywhere else?

  • 12.30.2012 10:25 PM PDT


Posted by: dazarobbo
Regardless of whether this is a good idea or not, what about movie theatres? And shopping centres? And parks? And everywhere else?

Allow law abiding citizens the right to defend themselves. Mass shootings only occur in places where law abiding citizens can't shoot back.

  • 12.30.2012 10:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: GohanRules 12

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: TopWargamer
As long as the teachers don't turn crazy, this is a good idea.

/IMO


You see, my worry isn't about rogue teachers. They have always had access to guns. Its not like having one in the cabinet will make them flip out.

I am worried that suicide by teacher will become as common as suicide by cop. Now, picture your first grade teacher, trying to take down a shooter, WITHOUT HITTING THE OTHER STUDENTS.

Can you picture that? I can't.

Well when we go on lock down the kids crowd the corner and there is usually one door. If the teacher stands infront of the kids they don't have to worry about shooting the kids.
This is what I call the Jack Bauer Fantasy.

Here, we watch as a gun supporter breaks a shooting down into the most basic of terms, in which the good guy is able to shoot the bad guy. In their gun supporter's defense, it isn't to their fault. It's hard to understand these kind of situations, but you have to picture yourself in the shoes of the good guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcGho-B_gTY

This show cares only about realism. The recreated this scene based on true events, and based on the video of the actual shooting, I say they did a fantastic job.

See, here even an upwards of 10 LAPD cops couldn't take down the shooter without the insanely heroic actions of one officer.

What makes you think that it is as simple as the good guy shooting the bad guy? I've been hearing nonsense like this since the Aura shooting.

  • 12.30.2012 10:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: GohanRules 12

Posted by: dazarobbo
Regardless of whether this is a good idea or not, what about movie theatres? And shopping centres? And parks? And everywhere else?

Allow law abiding citizens the right to defend themselves. Mass shootings only occur in places where law abiding citizens can't shoot back.
While this might be true, it is not supported by the minds of the criminal. Criminals who commit crimes like this don't pick their locations because of lack of guns, they pick them to cause fear. They want you to think of what they did when you're sitting in the movie theater, at school, or in the mall. Not because they want to leave the scene alive (as most of them don't)

  • 12.30.2012 10:34 PM PDT

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I'm a gun advocate but this is just really sketchy.

  • 12.30.2012 10:35 PM PDT
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I think it's better than the oh-so-effective "gun-free zones." There's a reason White House security consists of more than a sign telling people they can't have guns there.

  • 12.30.2012 10:48 PM PDT

~Thread-killer~


Posted by: Gruntzilla24

Posted by: GohanRules 12

Posted by: dazarobbo
Regardless of whether this is a good idea or not, what about movie theatres? And shopping centres? And parks? And everywhere else?

Allow law abiding citizens the right to defend themselves. Mass shootings only occur in places where law abiding citizens can't shoot back.
While this might be true, it is not supported by the minds of the criminal. Criminals who commit crimes like this don't pick their locations because of lack of guns, they pick them to cause fear. They want you to think of what they did when you're sitting in the movie theater, at school, or in the mall. Not because they want to leave the scene alive (as most of them don't)


What GohanRules said is true. Most of the recent mass shootings have been in 'gun free zones', otherwise known as ' come kill people here, we can't fight back zones'. As you have already noticed, gunman want to die. Funny thing is, as soon as they encounter resistance, they kill themselves. At the mall shooting in Oregon, a CCW holder made his presence known to the gunman. The next thing the gunman did is end himself.

Gun free zones don't work.

  • 12.30.2012 10:53 PM PDT
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All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.


Posted by: Safran888
I think it's better than the oh-so-effective "gun-free zones." There's a reason White House security consists of more than a sign telling people they can't have guns there.
In m town your not aloud to have a gun in a school zone. 2/3 of our town is a school zone.

We don't have daily murders or shootings, also there's a big difference security wise between the White House and a school.

  • 12.30.2012 10:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gruntzilla24

Posted by: Safran888
I think it's better than the oh-so-effective "gun-free zones." There's a reason White House security consists of more than a sign telling people they can't have guns there.
In m town your not aloud to have a gun in a school zone. 2/3 of our town is a school zone.

We don't have daily murders or shootings, also there's a big difference security wise between the White House and a school.
My point is a sign that tells people not to shoot up a school isn't going to stop anyone from shooting up a school. You see, criminals aren't exactly big advocates of following the law. The lack of shootings in your town isn't due to most of it being a school zone.

  • 12.30.2012 10:59 PM PDT

Can't wait to get the hell out of this state next year and go to Vanderbilt. Thank god I go to a private school here...

  • 12.30.2012 11:06 PM PDT

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Posted by: The U2 RoKKeR
Can't wait to get the hell out of this state next year and go to Vanderbilt. Thank god I go to a private school here...


You sure your Teachers are not carrying at your Private school?


I thought it was already legal in Utah for a teacher to Conceal carry if they so wish. That coupled with a Private school, your Math professor might have been packin' heat.

  • 12.30.2012 11:09 PM PDT

Double post, my bad.

[Edited on 12.30.2012 11:12 PM PST]

  • 12.30.2012 11:10 PM PDT

Posted by: SpartanMk18
Posted by: The U2 RoKKeR
Can't wait to get the hell out of this state next year and go to Vanderbilt. Thank god I go to a private school here...


You sure your Teachers are not carrying at your Private school?


I thought it was already legal in Utah for a teacher to Conceal carry if they so wish. That coupled with a Private school, your Math professor might have been packin' heat.

Not where I'm at. Perhaps other schools in the area but most certainly not here.

As far as whether or not this is a bad idea...I'm convinced. I can understand the possible advantage here but do we really need to have a ridiculous amount of guns on a school campus with children? It doesn't help the school environment if teachers are walking around with guns like its a damn military base or something.

  • 12.30.2012 11:11 PM PDT