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  • Subject: Utah teachers are being trained to use guns.
Subject: Utah teachers are being trained to use guns.
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Tom
USNSCC, E-3

The Line of Steel
Basically, it's a blog of mine that focuses on military and policy related issues. Feel free to bookmark it and PM me any ideas you have to improve its quality. I hope you enjoy it!


Posted by: The Ai

Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: The Ai
While having this in play may reduce the number of deaths in a shooting but it will not stop them.


Thank you, Captain Obvious.


Can you please address the rest of my post?

Just wondering what your thoughts are on it.


Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to be a dick.

You are correct, it presents itself as an interesting problem on the operational level. If a gunman takes a student hostage, will the teacher be able to handle?

On one hand, most of these shootings don't involve hostages being taken. Rather the shooter just runs around, blasting as many poor souls as if he's playing an arcade game at Chuckie Cheeses.

On the other hand, when hostages are taken, it's mostly in a fashion where the shooter and his hostages are barred up in a room, and he is making demands from the police. In this case, the teacher wouldn't be handling it, SWAT and other tactical teams would.

  • 12.30.2012 1:47 PM PDT


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: IAmAwsome

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
What the hell. We Americans live in one of the safest countries in the world. Yet we are the only country that is filled with people who are so afraid of one another that we feel the need to be surrounded by armed body guards at all times. We used to be such a brave people. We even had that in our national anthem. "...and the home of the brave."

Not any more. We cower under the blanket of "Will someone please think about the children!" and arm ourselves in the eventuality that one of us will flip out.

Maybe we don't deserve our 'Murrica attitude. Maybe we are all old women cowering in the night, and as such we should be the laughing stock of the world.

You don't see the French arming themselves in the eventuality one of them flip out...
It isn't about fear, it is about saftey. Would you go camping without deet because you are not afraid of mosquitoes?


What?

The two aren't comparable. Are you saying that being shot at school is as common as being bitten by a mosquito while camping? Are you THAT terrorized by the idea of a rampage shooter?
Why are you still pushing this fear thing? If anything having guns at the school will bring fear into the people who would do school shooting? It has nothing to do with us having fear.

  • 12.30.2012 1:48 PM PDT

Generalizations.
Helping idiots hate other idiots since people have existed.

I'm pretty sure that Utah has been doing this for a long time now.

  • 12.30.2012 1:48 PM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

Please allow me to introduce Myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith


Posted by: IAmAwsome

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: IAmAwsome

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
What the hell. We Americans live in one of the safest countries in the world. Yet we are the only country that is filled with people who are so afraid of one another that we feel the need to be surrounded by armed body guards at all times. We used to be such a brave people. We even had that in our national anthem. "...and the home of the brave."

Not any more. We cower under the blanket of "Will someone please think about the children!" and arm ourselves in the eventuality that one of us will flip out.

Maybe we don't deserve our 'Murrica attitude. Maybe we are all old women cowering in the night, and as such we should be the laughing stock of the world.

You don't see the French arming themselves in the eventuality one of them flip out...
It isn't about fear, it is about saftey. Would you go camping without deet because you are not afraid of mosquitoes?


What?

The two aren't comparable. Are you saying that being shot at school is as common as being bitten by a mosquito while camping? Are you THAT terrorized by the idea of a rampage shooter?
Why are you still pushing this fear thing? If anything having guns at the school will bring fear into the people who would do school shooting? It has nothing to do with us having fear.
You are cheering on the arming of teachers because you are afraid of a school shooter, while living in one of the safest countries in the world

This is irrational fear being carried out to a ridiculous end.

  • 12.30.2012 1:49 PM PDT

Do you not know how much money Public Schools get? Remember how I told you about how my old high school bought a bunch of chairs? That was after they blew a million dollars on new two story building with classrooms that came with smart boards. That isn't cheap. Schools factor in EVERYTHING before they blow money on useless crap. We don't need to worry about them "wasting money" that could have gone to new computers and better lunch food cause the schools financial workers already took that into consideration.

Posted by: Fire of the Rose
That was one example and one alone. Clearly the funds go to more than textbooks. You have to factor in food, supplies, building renovations, whatever substitute pay they need to make, etc. Even if you don't want them to have up to date textbooks, you still have to factor in the other variables that you all seem to be forgetting.

  • 12.30.2012 1:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Fire of the Rose

Posted by: AK 47625714
Yeah, he is. That's his 30th alt this week.

Notice how this idiot came into this thread to attack me...
I did no such thing.

  • 12.30.2012 1:49 PM PDT


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: IAmAwsome

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: IAmAwsome

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
What the hell. We Americans live in one of the safest countries in the world. Yet we are the only country that is filled with people who are so afraid of one another that we feel the need to be surrounded by armed body guards at all times. We used to be such a brave people. We even had that in our national anthem. "...and the home of the brave."

Not any more. We cower under the blanket of "Will someone please think about the children!" and arm ourselves in the eventuality that one of us will flip out.

Maybe we don't deserve our 'Murrica attitude. Maybe we are all old women cowering in the night, and as such we should be the laughing stock of the world.

You don't see the French arming themselves in the eventuality one of them flip out...
It isn't about fear, it is about saftey. Would you go camping without deet because you are not afraid of mosquitoes?


What?

The two aren't comparable. Are you saying that being shot at school is as common as being bitten by a mosquito while camping? Are you THAT terrorized by the idea of a rampage shooter?
Why are you still pushing this fear thing? If anything having guns at the school will bring fear into the people who would do school shooting? It has nothing to do with us having fear.
You are cheering on the arming of teachers because you are afraid of a school shooter, while living in one of the safest countries in the world

This is irrational fear being carried out to a ridiculous end.
Oh I see you are a troll. Well played.

  • 12.30.2012 1:51 PM PDT

Rustled Jimmies


Posted by: of the Rose

Posted by: AK 47625714

Posted by: of the Rose

Posted by: AK 47625714
Yeah, he is. That's his 30th alt this week.

Notice how this idiot came into this thread to attack me...
I did no such thing.

You know good and well you did.


you butthurt Fire of the Rose?

  • 12.30.2012 1:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: Fire of the Rose

Posted by: AK 47625714

Posted by: Fire of the Rose

Posted by: AK 47625714
Yeah, he is. That's his 30th alt this week.

Notice how this idiot came into this thread to attack me...
I did no such thing.

You know good and well you did.
Did I?

  • 12.30.2012 1:52 PM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

A shame that it has come to this for the US. I also think that it is not an appropriate course of action.

  • 12.30.2012 1:52 PM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

Please allow me to introduce Myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith


Posted by: IAmAwsome

Oh I see you are a troll. Well played.


Not at all. I seem to be the only one here who has retained his sanity. I am not so afraid of a school shooter that I think all teachers should be armed. The USA is one of the safest countries in the world. You are more at risk of being hit by a drunk driver than shot at school. Yet you don't see people driving in tanks.

This is irrationality carried out to absurdity.

  • 12.30.2012 1:53 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: BuzzKill9009

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: IAmAwsome

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
What the hell. We Americans live in one of the safest countries in the world. Yet we are the only country that is filled with people who are so afraid of one another that we feel the need to be surrounded by armed body guards at all times. We used to be such a brave people. We even had that in our national anthem. "...and the home of the brave."

Not any more. We cower under the blanket of "Will someone please think about the children!" and arm ourselves in the eventuality that one of us will flip out.

Maybe we don't deserve our 'Murrica attitude. Maybe we are all old women cowering in the , and as such we should be the laughing stock of the world.

You don't see the French arming themselves in the eventuality one of them flip out...
It isn't about , it is about saftey. Would you go camping without deet because you are not afraid of mosquitoes?


What?

The two aren't comparable. Are you saying that being shot at school is as common as being bitten by a mosquito while camping? Are you THAT terrorized by the idea of a rampage shooter?


hes just saying that its better to have safety then live in fear
But his point is ruined when he talks about something that is an almost certainty (getting bitten by mosquitoes while camping) and compares it to something that is almost definitely not going to happen (getting shot at school/having a shooting at your school).

  • 12.30.2012 1:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: The Ai

Posted by: MilitaryTheorist

Posted by: The Ai
While having this in play may reduce the number of deaths in a shooting but it will not stop them.


Thank you, Captain Obvious.


Can you please address the rest of my post?

Just wondering what your thoughts are on it.


Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to be a dick.

You are correct, it presents itself as an interesting problem on the operational level. If a gunman takes a student hostage, will the teacher be able to handle?

On one hand, most of these shootings don't involve hostages being taken. Rather the shooter just runs around, blasting as many poor souls as if he's playing an arcade game at Chuckie Cheeses.

On the other hand, when hostages are taken, it's mostly in a fashion where the shooter and his hostages are barred up in a room, and he is making demands from the police. In this case, the teacher wouldn't be handling it, SWAT and other tactical teams would.


Fair enough i can see your point in that most hostage situations would be handled by SWAT and not teachers.I myself did not actually remember that bit of information.

I did not see it was being a dick, i just saw it as someone that assumed it would be a post bashing guns like other posts in the thread.

I just wish this was not needed to feel safe but its not my place to say whether it is good or bad since i am not in The UNited States.

[Edited on 12.30.2012 1:58 PM PST]

  • 12.30.2012 1:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Anton P Nym
who says you have to be an ace to have fun?

Posted by: TUI_Obi_Wan
Stupid parents let their stupid children play games that are rated M when they should be playing Big Birds Spelling Adventures

Posted by: Kira Onime
Also the AR is actually good in CQB now and no longer a glorified baseball bat.

The rarity of a mass shooting, let alone one in a school, is so high that the whole reaction to the Sandy Hook shooting is a massive overreaction.

Yes, it was a horrible event. No, all of this is not needed.

I remember reading a statistic recently that all the mass shootings in the US in the past 13 years(before Sandy Hook; the article was written after the theater shooting) have killed a total of 210 people.

That is less than half of the people killed in Chicago EACH year! (they hit 500 on Friday)

Out of those 500 people this year killed in Chicago, 60 were children. Where is the outrage for that?

  • 12.30.2012 1:53 PM PDT

Dear tomorrow, Find some sensibility, Respond to emotion.
Dear Politician, Define sagacity,
All chances of survival are beginning to diminish.
Comedy is no excuse for our own blasphemies.
Mass media, Mass pessimism, Mass Denial.
My television tells me to panic, but I don't think I'll listen.
The apathetic force us to persevere, with their backwards priorities.

If a school feels a teacher is mentally capable of shooting children, they should not hire them in the first place.

This is a good idea.

  • 12.30.2012 1:53 PM PDT


Posted by: Fire of the Rose

Posted by: IAmAwsome

Posted by: Fire of the Rose

Posted by: IAmAwsome
You don't need to update textbooks every years. Math and english stay generally the same, and same with history which you should only update every ten years.

Science also stays the same unless some new discovery changes everything.

Even if what you say is true, what about technology that aids in the learning process like smart boards or computers? Even basic renovations to some schools should be in order and do take up funds.
My school still uses windos XP computers with box monitors and that is fine for me. Also, you do not need to have advanced technology to teach. It can be easier for the teacher yes, but still the kids will learn just fine using a normal whiteboard.

Schools with better technology will generally have better test scores. You don't have to buy them, but to fund the gun policy instead of teaching tech is just irresponsible.
I do not believe it is irresponsible as long as the teechers are shown to be evenheaded, and mentally healthy. (which are already requirements to being a teacher)

Also I would like to see the stats that say this about technology.

  • 12.30.2012 1:53 PM PDT

Rustled Jimmies


Posted by: of the Rose

Posted by: Gaara444
Do you not know how much money Public Schools get? Remember how I told you about how my old high school bought a bunch of chairs? That was after they blew a million dollars on new two story building with classrooms that came with smart boards. That isn't cheap. Schools factor in EVERYTHING before they blow money on useless crap. We don't need to worry about them "wasting money" that could have to new computers and better lunch food cause the schools financial workers already took that into consideration.

Posted by: of the Rose
That was one example and one alone. Clearly the funds go to more than textbooks. You have to factor in food, supplies, building renovations, whatever substitute pay they need to make, etc. Even if you don't want them to have up to date textbooks, you still have to factor in the other variables that you all seem to be forgetting.

Just because your school can afford that doesn't mean others can. You seem to think that all schools get the same amount of money, which is not true. If you enact this policy for all the school districts, you'll have some schools that suffer immensely to support the policy financially. And yes, they factor in everything which is why the things they could use that money on for other things. Just because they budget doesn't mean they won't things. That's the whole point of budgeting.


you're butthurting right now aren't you? you cant accept the fact that there are people who dont share your opinion

  • 12.30.2012 1:54 PM PDT

If a teacher was going to shoot a student nothing is stopping them from getting one legally and bringing it to school.

As for a student taking a teachers gun, on the first day of school tell all the students that teachers now have a personal space bubble that you cannot enter unless asked to. If they enter it they get hit/smacked so that way kids don't "accidently come up behind the teacher or something.

  • 12.30.2012 1:54 PM PDT

Rustled Jimmies



Posted by: of the Rose

Posted by: AK 47625714

Posted by: of the Rose

Posted by: AK 47625714
Yeah, he is. That's his 30th alt this week.[/quote]
Notice how this idiot came into this thread to attack me...[/quote]I did no such thing.

You know good and well you did.


you butthurt of the Rose?

You're damn right I'm butthurt. All you people trying to make sense out of this moronic situation is frustrating.


Well sit down for this, because the world doesnt revolve around you. there are people who are going to disagree with you and if you cant handle that then its your own damn fault and problem but dont take it out on the rest of us

  • 12.30.2012 1:55 PM PDT


Posted by: IslocStarkiller
If a school feels a teacher is mentally capable of shooting children, they should not hire them in the first place.

This is a good idea.

  • 12.30.2012 1:55 PM PDT

If schools are having problems enacting a financial policy such as buying a stupid little safe, then they weren't spending their money wisely to begin with. If for the sake of argument that the federal government did make this nationwide for all school districts, they would have to give extra money to the schools that can't afford it so they can afford it.

Because it would be LAW then.

Posted by: Fire of the Rose
Just because your school can afford that doesn't mean others can. You seem to think that all schools get the same amount of money, which is not true. If you enact this policy for all the school districts, you'll have some schools that suffer immensely to support the policy financially. And yes, they factor in everything which is why the sacrifice things they could use that money on for other things. Just because they budget doesn't mean they won't sacrifice things. That's the whole point of budgeting.

  • 12.30.2012 1:55 PM PDT