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This topic has moved here: Poll [22 votes]: Who is the REAL VILLAIN in Spec Ops The Line?
  • Poll [22 votes]: Who is the REAL VILLAIN in Spec Ops The Line?
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Subject: Who is the REAL VILLAIN in Spec Ops The Line?

OMGZZ!!!!!!

"It's Afghanistanimation!"

Poll: Who is the REAL VILLAIN in Spec Ops The Line?  [closed]
Col. John Konrad:  0%
(0 Votes)
Captain Martin Walker:  27%
(6 Votes)
Radioman:  0%
(0 Votes)
...Yourself:  73%
(16 Votes)
Total Votes: 22

Spec Ops is in no way short of interpretative ideals. Everything from PTSD to Cognitive Dissonance is covered by its very well done story... But there is one thing that should be discussed.

Who is the REAL VILLAIN in the game? Remember "It takes a strong man to deny what is right in front of him."

  • 12.31.2012 11:32 AM PDT

You, OP.

  • 12.31.2012 11:32 AM PDT
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The developer, making us play that crapfest.

  • 12.31.2012 11:33 AM PDT

Walker

  • 12.31.2012 11:34 AM PDT

OMGZZ!!!!!!

"It's Afghanistanimation!"


Posted by: Mastergee
The developer, making us play that crapfest.
Your logic. Needs more logic.

  • 12.31.2012 11:35 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Depends, everyone is antagonistic towards one another and everyone does some -blam!-.

  • 12.31.2012 11:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: AngryBrute1

Posted by: Mastergee
The developer, making us play that crapfest.
Your logic. Needs more logic.


Well they made me play it, dunno about you.

  • 12.31.2012 11:39 AM PDT

**Devil's advocate of the Flood. My posts may or may not represent my personal opinion, I just enjoy disagreeing with people. None of my posts are representative of the official view of the Navy or any government agency.

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Konrad legitimately tried to help, and died in the process. Radioman really didn't do anything besides help rally civilians together.

If anything, the villains were the CIA who tried to cover up the failed evacuation. Walker becomes the main antagonist after killing literally everyone though.

  • 12.31.2012 11:46 AM PDT

Yes, I'm a furry. And yes, I like men. So what?

Well, it's an interpretation of Heart of Darkness

I, uh...still don't know.

  • 12.31.2012 11:47 AM PDT

OMGZZ!!!!!!

"It's Afghanistanimation!"


Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
Konrad legitimately tried to help, and died in the process. Radioman really didn't do anything besides help rally civilians together.

If anything, the villains were the CIA who tried to cover up the failed evacuation. Walker becomes the main antagonist after killing literally everyone though.
But you controlled it all.

  • 12.31.2012 11:49 AM PDT

**Devil's advocate of the Flood. My posts may or may not represent my personal opinion, I just enjoy disagreeing with people. None of my posts are representative of the official view of the Navy or any government agency.

Non Sibi Sed Patriae
Homework questions? Forget the Flood, join The Academy.
I've got a fan!


Posted by: AngryBrute1

Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
Konrad legitimately tried to help, and died in the process. Radioman really didn't do anything besides help rally civilians together.

If anything, the villains were the CIA who tried to cover up the failed evacuation. Walker becomes the main antagonist after killing literally everyone though.
But you controlled it all.


Meh, its hard to agree with that when every scene is scripted.

  • 12.31.2012 11:56 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: AngryBrute1
But you controlled it all.
You went through the motions dictated by the scene in order to advance the predetermined plot.

  • 12.31.2012 11:57 AM PDT
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STOP ASSAULT 2012

Who is Assault? Assault is a mod in the Bungie.net brony group. And what started out with good intentions, viciously spiraled down into a power hungry tyrant locking thread after thread after thread to quell all opposition to his tyrannical rule. Did I mention he is a tyrant?

To donate to the STOP ASSAULT 2012 movement, message me with your credit card info, full name, social security, full adress, and mothers maiden name.

The real villian is the horrors of war. Everyone is merely a victim.

  • 12.31.2012 11:58 AM PDT

OMGZZ!!!!!!

"It's Afghanistanimation!"


Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: AngryBrute1
But you controlled it all.
You went through the motions dictated by the scene in order to advance the predetermined plot.
Indeed, indeed. But what Konrad said at the end about why you are here, that made me believe that I was the real bad guy.

  • 12.31.2012 12:02 PM PDT
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  • Legendary Member

teh alieumz

but den jon found out

HE WAS TEH ALIEUMZ!

ah

  • 12.31.2012 12:04 PM PDT

Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: AngryBrute1
But you controlled it all.
You went through the motions dictated by the scene in order to advance the predetermined plot.
aren't video games supposed to feel more, idk, interactive? especially when the narrative starts directly acknowledged the player? the only "choice" it has to talk about is our "choice" to play the game, and the experience feels more than a bit shallow because of that.

[Edited on 12.31.2012 12:04 PM PST]

  • 12.31.2012 12:04 PM PDT

**Devil's advocate of the Flood. My posts may or may not represent my personal opinion, I just enjoy disagreeing with people. None of my posts are representative of the official view of the Navy or any government agency.

Non Sibi Sed Patriae
Homework questions? Forget the Flood, join The Academy.
I've got a fan!


Posted by: AngryBrute1

Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: AngryBrute1
But you controlled it all.
You went through the motions dictated by the scene in order to advance the predetermined plot.
Indeed, indeed. But what Konrad said at the end about why you are here, that made me believe that I was the real bad guy.


Well, Walker is the bad the guy. You, the player, aren't. It'd be one thing if you actually had a choice to kill or save civilians, but every choice is scripted and the player really does nothing wrong.

[Edited on 12.31.2012 12:06 PM PST]

  • 12.31.2012 12:06 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: AngryBrute1
Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: AngryBrute1
But you controlled it all.
You went through the motions dictated by the scene in order to advance the predetermined plot.
Indeed, indeed. But what Konrad said at the end about why you are here, that made me believe that I was the real bad guy.
Why?

  • 12.31.2012 12:08 PM PDT

Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
Well, Walker is the bad the guy. You, the player, aren't. It'd be one thing if you actually had a choice to kill or save civilians, but every choice is scripted and the player really does nothing wrong.
the game *does* criticize the player, but not for any actual player-choices in the game. it mocks how it presumes someone who would buy a modern shooter (or a spec ops game) would *probably* think (ex: you killed a ton of guys with just one white phosphorus shot! bechu feel good about that! sike, they were all civilians, jackass!)

[Edited on 12.31.2012 12:12 PM PST]

  • 12.31.2012 12:12 PM PDT


Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey

Posted by: AngryBrute1

Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: AngryBrute1
But you controlled it all.
You went through the motions dictated by the scene in order to advance the predetermined plot.
Indeed, indeed. But what Konrad said at the end about why you are here, that made me believe that I was the real bad guy.


Well, Walker is the bad the guy. You, the player, aren't. It'd be one thing if you actually had a choice to kill or save civilians, but every choice is scripted and the player really does nothing wrong.

You actually do get a choice to kill/not kill civilians, after Lugo's death. If you fire in the air or on the ground, the civvies will scatter and Adams won't open fire on them. Small, but the devs thought of everything in quite a few of the choices.

The bigger picture, though, is that all the choices are scripted events because that's just how games work. When I buy a car, I don't complain about the fact that it uses wheels to get around.

  • 12.31.2012 12:13 PM PDT

OMGZZ!!!!!!

"It's Afghanistanimation!"


Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: AngryBrute1
Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: AngryBrute1
But you controlled it all.
You went through the motions dictated by the scene in order to advance the predetermined plot.
Indeed, indeed. But what Konrad said at the end about why you are here, that made me believe that I was the real bad guy.
Why?
May sound silly, but it really struck a cord with me... A lot of us play games because we want to feel like something we are not. A hero, like Konrad said. I knew that this game was going to be dark beyond compare, but I was not expecting this. Him saying that phrase made me feel like it was all my fault, even if it was all predetermined. I felt like I was the one who squeezed the trigger, not an animated character

  • 12.31.2012 12:13 PM PDT

**Devil's advocate of the Flood. My posts may or may not represent my personal opinion, I just enjoy disagreeing with people. None of my posts are representative of the official view of the Navy or any government agency.

Non Sibi Sed Patriae
Homework questions? Forget the Flood, join The Academy.
I've got a fan!


Posted by: petarded2
Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
Well, Walker is the bad the guy. You, the player, aren't. It'd be one thing if you actually had a choice to kill or save civilians, but every choice is scripted and the player really does nothing wrong.
the game *does* criticize the player, but not for any actual player-choices in the game. it mocks how it presumes someone who would buy a modern shooter (or a spec ops game) would *probably* think (ex: you killed a ton of guys with just one white phosphorus shot! bechu feel good about that! sike, they were all civilians, jackass!)


Yeah, I got that...the game isn't very subtle in parodying the modern warfare genre. I'm just saying that it fails at making the player feel villainous when there is literally no choice but to kill Americans and WMD civilians. Still a fun twist on shooters.

  • 12.31.2012 12:15 PM PDT

Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
Yeah, I got that...the game isn't very subtle in parodying the modern warfare genre. I'm just saying that it fails at making the player feel villainous when there is literally no choice but to kill Americans and WMD civilians. Still a fun twist on shooters.
completely agree. interesting, but a little disappointingly shallow at the same time.

  • 12.31.2012 12:19 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: Ax Fielder
You actually do get a choice to kill/not kill civilians, after Lugo's death. If you fire in the air or on the ground, the civvies will scatter and Adams won't open fire on them. Small, but the devs thought of everything in quite a few of the choices.
Yar, I just stood there and got pelted the first two times because I didn't know what I was supposed to do. Then I figured they just wanted me to shoot some of them because the game is all about making you do -blam!- through Walker. Thing is though, they ruined any immoral charge to that by showing that these people will kill you. Once I started firing on them to keep them back it's no different than firing on the other soldiers who are trying to kill you.

The bigger picture, though, is that all the choices are scripted events because that's just how games work. When I buy a car, I don't complain about the fact that it uses wheels to get around.The point is that the "choices," are important to the message, but they don't deliver the message well.

Posted by: AngryBrute1That does sound a bit silly. But to each his own I suppose.

Posted by: petarded2I think the important thing is that it fails on any meta-level in its goal as perceived by you because the player is an observer to Walker's story as Adams and Lugo are. You're kept in the dark about what's actually going on with Walker as much as his squadmates.

  • 12.31.2012 12:22 PM PDT

OMGZZ!!!!!!

"It's Afghanistanimation!"


Posted by: dahuterschuter

Posted by: AngryBrute1That does sound a bit silly. But to each his own I suppose.
Yeah, it really is all within the players own experience. You are Turkey obviously had different once than the rest of us here. But we do agree that it is a really great piece of story telling right?

  • 12.31.2012 12:24 PM PDT

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