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  • Subject: Is consciousness the same for everyone or is it subjective?
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Subject: Is consciousness the same for everyone or is it subjective?
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My signature is rather loopy and elegant... I don't see a way to replicate this in text form. Do italics work? Yes, they do

Allow me to clear up the question a bit. What I mean to ask is how do you know if the person nexts to us sees the colour blue as you see it? Or hears a whistle as you hear it? Or tastes chocolate as you taste it?

It was a point made by a guy (who's actually quite stupid) in my philosophy class before the Christmas holidays and I thought it'd be interesting to throw to you guys. I'd offer my own opinion but I'd like to see how this develops.

[Edited on 01.01.2013 9:29 AM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 9:28 AM PDT

"It is the cruelest fate, to have written words that meant well and see them made wicked and unwise. What was meant to encourage life, used instead to justify taking it."

I sometimes wonder about things like this, like what if the color red I see is perceived by someone else as I would see magenta, or perhaps a color impossible for me to perceive now.

  • 01.01.2013 9:31 AM PDT

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"Ignorance is a plague."

Close, but the plague killed those infected with it, and the ignorant are still alive.
I wish ignorance was a plague.

There are going to be subtle differences in the way things are perceived.

It's kind of hard to prove though. (Imagine describing "yellow" to someone who has been blind since birth)

  • 01.01.2013 9:33 AM PDT

Posted by: Billygoat456
I'll bring the tritium laser cutters if you bring the beer!

Funny story.

The electromagnetic waves are the same for everyone, the hardware that interprets them is also.

Yes, we all see the same colours.

  • 01.01.2013 9:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: monitor 16807
The electromagnetic waves are the same for everyone, the hardware that interprets them is also.

Yes, we all see the same colours.


This has always been the way I've seen it. However we are biological entities capable of diversification and, in some cases, fault so I always allow for at least a modicum of difference between different people's perception.


[Edited on 01.01.2013 9:35 AM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 9:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: monitor 16807
The electromagnetic waves are the same for everyone, the hardware that interprets them is also.

Yes, we all see the same colours.
False. There are cultures which only have two different classifications of colour, and they only see two colours. Blue and green are one and the same to them.

  • 01.01.2013 9:35 AM PDT
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I like games and music

We all see the same colors but we all don't imagine the same colors.

  • 01.01.2013 9:36 AM PDT
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Posted by: ImOnTheDole

Posted by: monitor 16807
The electromagnetic waves are the same for everyone, the hardware that interprets them is also.

Yes, we all see the same colours.
False. There are cultures which only have two different classifications of colour, and they only see two colours. Blue and green are one and the same to them.


That doesn't mean they can't see the entire range of the visible spectrum. Blue and green may be the same to them, but they could still see the difference.

  • 01.01.2013 9:37 AM PDT

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"Ignorance is a plague."

Close, but the plague killed those infected with it, and the ignorant are still alive.
I wish ignorance was a plague.

Posted by: monitor 16807
The electromagnetic waves are the same for everyone, the hardware that interprets them is also.

Yes, we all see the same colours.
The hardware is not the same; we are not all clones of the same person (and even if we were, our environment would still have a significant effect on our development). Your face is not the same as everyone else's, why would you expect your eyes and brain to be?

  • 01.01.2013 9:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: Delta SWE
We all see the same colors but we all don't imagine the same colors.


What the -blam!- is that even supposed to mean?

  • 01.01.2013 9:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: HistoryHighlight

Posted by: ImOnTheDole

Posted by: monitor 16807
The electromagnetic waves are the same for everyone, the hardware that interprets them is also.

Yes, we all see the same colours.
False. There are cultures which only have two different classifications of colour, and they only see two colours. Blue and green are one and the same to them.


That doesn't mean they can't see the entire range of the visible spectrum. Blue and green may be the same to them, but they could still see the difference.
An experiment was set up, and it turns out they couldn't. Hang on, I'll see if I can find a link..

  • 01.01.2013 9:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: ImOnTheDole

Posted by: HistoryHighlight

Posted by: ImOnTheDole

Posted by: monitor 16807
The electromagnetic waves are the same for everyone, the hardware that interprets them is also.

Yes, we all see the same colours.
False. There are cultures which only have two different classifications of colour, and they only see two colours. Blue and green are one and the same to them.


That doesn't mean they can't see the entire range of the visible spectrum. Blue and green may be the same to them, but they could still see the difference.
An experiment was set up, and it turns out they couldn't. Hang on, I'll see if I can find a link..


That's because their brains have been wired to only identify two colours. I imagine they can still detect the difference between the blue and green, even if they consider them one and the same.

I don't know, I'm tired and this is difficult to wrap my head around.

  • 01.01.2013 9:40 AM PDT

Posted by: Billygoat456
I'll bring the tritium laser cutters if you bring the beer!

Funny story.

Posted by: destroys u
The hardware is not the same; we are not all clones of the same person (and even if we were, our environment would still have a significant effect on our development). Your face is not the same as everyone else's, why would you expect your eyes and brain to be?
Are you claiming that what we call the visible spectrum is completely subjective?

You've got sources to back up your claims?

  • 01.01.2013 9:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: HistoryHighlight

Posted by: Delta SWE
We all see the same colors but we all don't imagine the same colors.


What the -blam!- is that even supposed to mean?
All the colors in the material planes are what they are. It's our brain that interprets the presence of the color and makes an image out of it in our minds.

  • 01.01.2013 9:41 AM PDT
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My signature is rather loopy and elegant... I don't see a way to replicate this in text form. Do italics work? Yes, they do


Posted by: Delta SWE

Posted by: HistoryHighlight

Posted by: Delta SWE
We all see the same colors but we all don't imagine the same colors.


What the -blam!- is that even supposed to mean?
All the colors in the material planes are what they are. It's our brain that interprets the presence of the color and makes an image out of it in our minds.


So we don't see the same colours then. Since seeing is analysing images interpreted by our brain, if our brain interprets them subjectively.

  • 01.01.2013 9:43 AM PDT
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I like games and music

Posted by: HistoryHighlight

Posted by: Delta SWE

Posted by: HistoryHighlight

Posted by: Delta SWE
We all see the same colors but we all don't imagine the same colors.


What the -blam!- is that even supposed to mean?
All the colors in the material planes are what they are. It's our brain that interprets the presence of the color and makes an image out of it in our minds.


So we don't see the same colours then. Since seeing is analysing images interpreted by our brain, if our brain interprets them subjectively.
Technically we look at the same color, but colorblind people see another. We have tools advanced enough to tell if the colors imagined in our brain are right and as a result the ones we can see are. Though there are colorblind people who interpret the color wrong and that was my point.

  • 01.01.2013 9:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: HistoryHighlight

Posted by: ImOnTheDole

Posted by: HistoryHighlight

Posted by: ImOnTheDole

Posted by: monitor 16807
The electromagnetic waves are the same for everyone, the hardware that interprets them is also.

Yes, we all see the same colours.
False. There are cultures which only have two different classifications of colour, and they only see two colours. Blue and green are one and the same to them.


That doesn't mean they can't see the entire range of the visible spectrum. Blue and green may be the same to them, but they could still see the difference.
An experiment was set up, and it turns out they couldn't. Hang on, I'll see if I can find a link..


That's because their brains have been wired to only identify two colours. I imagine they can still detect the difference between the blue and green, even if they consider them one and the same.

I don't know, I'm tired and this is difficult to wrap my head around.
I'm having trouble finding it. Can't remember what the hell the video's called. But basically, they showed seven colored squares on a screen. Six were the same shade of green, and one was blue, and they were then asked to identify the odd one out, and just stared at the screen dumbfounded.

  • 01.01.2013 9:47 AM PDT

The colors we see are our interpretations of electromagnetic waves. We naturally have cones in our eyes to see red, green, and blue. The rest of our visible light spectrum are combinations of the three colors. Hence computer color hex codes. Dogs have cones for green and purple, and see their visible light spectrum as combinations of green and purple. This means they can only see 1/100 of the colors we can. Some animals, such as some types of birds, have a larger visible light spectrum. A few people are even born with four cones, and see 100 times more colors than most others. That being said, most people see colors very simialrly, but they're all the same electromagnetic waves.

[Edited on 01.01.2013 9:51 AM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 9:49 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Because everyone describes their experience of reality in the same way.

  • 01.01.2013 9:57 AM PDT
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"Hoc volo sic iubeo. Sit pro rationes voluntas." - Juvenal

"Scio me nihil scire." - Socrates

Colors, we know, are seen the same by everyone roughly. Science backs us up on that. However there is colorblindness.

As for taste, I don't know really.

  • 01.01.2013 10:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: dahuterschuter
Because everyone describes their experience of reality in the same way.


Let's say you and your friend are hanging out. Let's use me as a reference point. Let's say a blue (to me) bicycle goes past you and your friend. Using me as a reference point, assume you see blue as red and your friend sees blue as green. Because throughout your whole life you have seen blue as red and he has seen blue as green, you will both identify the bike as blue while seeing different colours.

  • 01.01.2013 10:02 AM PDT

Posted by: Billygoat456
I'll bring the tritium laser cutters if you bring the beer!

Funny story.

Posted by: HistoryHighlight
Using me as a reference point, assume you see blue as red and your friend sees blue as green.
There's no way to show this. It's irrelevant.

The ratio would still be 1:1 between your perceptions.

[Edited on 01.01.2013 10:04 AM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 10:03 AM PDT
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Posted by: monitor 16807
Posted by: HistoryHighlight
Using me as a reference point, assume you see blue as red and your friend sees blue as green.
There's no way to show this.It's irrelevant.

The ratio would still be 1:1 between your perceptions.


That's the whole reason we are discussing it.

  • 01.01.2013 10:05 AM PDT

BrAdLeY

sometimes i think the same thing like do people see the world as i see it :O

i get depressed easy and wonder if people see the world as more then it is

  • 01.01.2013 10:07 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: HistoryHighlight
Let's say you and your friend are hanging out. Let's use me as a reference point. Let's say a blue (to me) bicycle goes past you and your friend. Using me as a reference point, assume you see blue as red and your friend sees blue as green. Because throughout your whole life you have seen blue as red and he has seen blue as green, you will both identify the bike as blue while seeing different colours.
There's a reason certain colors are used in certain contexts, because they have known mental effects. People describe colors the same way, pink is a light color, purple is dark, yellow is bright, blue is tranquil, orange is harsh.

But really, none of that matters because colors are objective things.

  • 01.01.2013 10:08 AM PDT

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