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  • Subject: Do Animals Know That They Will Die?
Subject: Do Animals Know That They Will Die?

I thought of this question a couple of days ago, and now that there's that thread about life and death, I decided that I should ask a similar question, and hope that you will discuss your view on what it probably is/means:

Most animals are only instinctively driven and live their lives with one goal in mind: to survive and ensure the passing of their genetic code to their future offspring.

Do animals know, however, that living only to survive would be somewhat futile after they pass their offspring (which is very early for some species) since they just die in the end?

Is it a huge surprise to them? Do you think they know what awaits them?

Can they possibly know something we don't?

Who programmed them this way, or why are they programmed this way? Why is ensuring the survival of them and their species so important? Has simple evolution programmed them like this?

We survive because we can also have fun, admire beautiful things, listen to fantastic music, etc.

This is, of course, not true for all animals. Dogs, cats, birds, etc. have also been shown to have what can be considered "human" traits. (having fun, maybe sadness? Things that may not be only guided toward survival like fear and anger).

Perhaps our human feelings are in all animals, but we do not notice it because it's so different? Perhaps all our human feelings are in fact in all animals because they all serve a purpose in survival?

From: Recon Number 54
I've had pets that "went off to die" and I had to search for them. In the cases of the ones that I could find, they went someplace quiet, safe, curled up and laid down.

I brought them home, made them comfortable, and arranged an appointment with the vet to discover if there was something treatable or if we were at an end-of-life decision and I could make their death as pain-free as possible.


From: Slothful Koala
I do believe that other animals experience emotions similar to our own.

From: General Ryan
Yep. When cats/dogs know that they will die soon, they often run off to die alone.Yep. When cats/dogs know that they will die soon, they often run off to die alone.

But do you believe ALL of them know this? General Ryan, you only mentioned cats and dogs.

[Edited on 01.01.2013 1:25 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 1:17 PM PDT

That's actually a really good point.

  • 01.01.2013 1:17 PM PDT

Posted by: IrIsHmAn04
no its legit, i used coordinates, set weapon timers the works.

This thread will not end well.

*grabs popcorn*

  • 01.01.2013 1:18 PM PDT

Play. Forge. Film.

TL;DR


Marley and Me.
'Nuff said

  • 01.01.2013 1:18 PM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within BEST GROUP EVAR!!!

Maybe

  • 01.01.2013 1:18 PM PDT

Yep. When cats/dogs know that they will die soon, they often run off to die alone.

[Edited on 01.01.2013 1:19 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 1:19 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

I've had pets that "went off to die" and I had to search for them. In the cases of the ones that I could find, they went someplace quiet, safe, curled up and laid down.

I brought them home, made them comfortable, and arranged an appointment with the vet to discover if there was something treatable or if we were at an end-of-life decision and I could make their death as pain-free as possible.

  • 01.01.2013 1:20 PM PDT


Posted by: General Ryan
Yep. When cats/dogs know that they will die soon, they often run off to die alone.


That may be true for cats and dogs, but I mentioned other animals too. Even the smaller ones (rats, mice, rabbits, crickets, lizards).

  • 01.01.2013 1:20 PM PDT

The soldiers, the lovers, the cowards, the brave
We're all on this world, we got what we gave


Posted by: General Ryan
Yep. When cats/dogs know that they will die soon, they often run off to die alone.


This happened to my friend when he was a young child. He had a dream that the dog came back and he could hug it one last time. Then it left to the forest.

  • 01.01.2013 1:21 PM PDT

They're made from nature, and are born to die there.

  • 01.01.2013 1:21 PM PDT

I do believe that other animals experience emotions similar to our own.

  • 01.01.2013 1:22 PM PDT

Just remember that no matter how terrible you feel, or how much you want to let go, there are people who care about you and love you.

I wouldn't know, I'm not an animal.

  • 01.01.2013 1:22 PM PDT

Posted by: Billygoat456
I'll bring the tritium laser cutters if you bring the beer!

Funny story.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
I've had pets that "went off to die" and I had to search for them. In the cases of the ones that I could find, they went someplace quiet, safe, curled up and laid down.

I brought them home, made them comfortable, and arranged an appointment with the vet to discover if there was something treatable or if we were at an end-of-life decision and I could make their death as pain-free as possible.
Knowing when they're about to die and knowing 10 years in advance is different though.

We're taught from a young age that we're going to die. Animals don't necessarily know that death is inevitable.

  • 01.01.2013 1:23 PM PDT

I would really love to have a conversation with my dog sometimes. Tell her the things she is doing right, and wrong. And ask her take on things. Does she think that this blessed life of hers is going to last forever? Or does she know that she is already halway through her lifespan?

  • 01.01.2013 1:24 PM PDT

Questions lead to learning, learning leads to kowledge, knowledge leads to understanding, understanding leads to peace.



"I would kill to get a killionaire... 10 times... digitally."


Posted by: Recon Number 54
I've had pets that "went off to die" and I had to search for them. In the cases of the ones that I could find, they went someplace quiet, safe, curled up and laid down.

I brought them home, made them comfortable, and arranged an appointment with the vet to discover if there was something treatable or if we were at an end-of-life decision and I could make their death as pain-free as possible.

I've had to do this with a cat and a dog. Now if you don't mind, I'm not going to go cry in my room from painful memories.

  • 01.01.2013 1:24 PM PDT

Time flies like an arrow; fruits flies like a banana.


Posted by: Dozen Plague
Most animals are only instinctively driven and live their lives with one goal in mind: to survive and ensure the passing of their genetic code to their future offspring.

I disagree with this. One could argue that this is an individual animal's 'purpose,' but how can anyone know if they actually feel only the need to do this, and none other? Humans may be quite a bit more complicated mentally than most animals, but still... Who's to say animals do not take joy from 'hobbies,' or activities not necessarily leading to reproduction or survival?

Besides that, instinct is a broad and vague term, again because we do not and can not understand an animal's thoughts and urges. Instinct can be seen as a filler for thoughts and feeling of an animal that may or not be there, bundled under that term.

[Edited on 01.01.2013 1:27 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 1:25 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: monitor 16807
Posted by: Recon Number 54
I've had pets that "went off to die" and I had to search for them. In the cases of the ones that I could find, they went someplace quiet, safe, curled up and laid down.

I brought them home, made them comfortable, and arranged an appointment with the vet to discover if there was something treatable or if we were at an end-of-life decision and I could make their death as pain-free as possible.
Knowing when they're about to die and knowing 10 years in advance is different though.

We're taught from a young age that we're going to die. Animals don't necessarily know that death is inevitable.

I didn't say that they "conceptualized and knew that death was inevitable", that would be anthropomorphisation (which is a common and easy to make error when dealing with animals).

I said that they "left the pack" and went off to be by themselves. As to what caused them to do so, I can only speculate. A certainly level of fatigue, of pain, or if they knew that "it was time", I don't know. But I've personally observed it more than a few times.

  • 01.01.2013 1:26 PM PDT


Posted by: TheEndIsNear NL

Posted by: Dozen Plague
Most animals are only instinctively driven and live their lives with one goal in mind: to survive and ensure the passing of their genetic code to their future offspring.

I disagree with this. One could argue that this is an individual animal's 'purpose,' but how can anyone know if they actually feel only the need to do this, and none other? Humans may be quite a bit more complicated mentally than most animals, but still... Who's to say animals do not take joy from 'hobbies,' or activities not necessarily leading to reproduction or survival?


I mentioned that in the OP. Did you not read all of it, or did you not understand it? I'm sorry if you didn't understand it, tell me and I'll modify it.

I said in the OP that it is possible that maybe all animals feel like us, but they express it so differently that we will never know.

  • 01.01.2013 1:28 PM PDT

Posted by: Dozen Plague
Do animals know, however, that living only to survive would be somewhat futile after they pass their offspring (which is very early for some species) since they just die in the end?

No.

Is it a huge surprise to them? Do you think they know what awaits them?
No.

Can they possibly know something we don't?
No.

why are they programmed this way?
Animals are nothing more, or less, than survival machines for replicators. Good replicators survive if they can continue to replicate; animals reproduce so genes can survive and be passed on.

Why is ensuring the survival of them and their species so important?
Survival of a species increases the chance of survival of the individual organism carrying a gene; since the ultimate goal is for the replicator to be replicated, survival of the species and individual is preferred.

But keep in mind that these actions are entirely unconscious: genes are locked in the greatest, most extraordinary struggle this planet has ever known, and yet they are completely unaware of it.

Has simple evolution programmed them like this?
Evolution by natural selection is elegant and awe-inspiring, but it is not "simple". It has, however, "programmed" them like this.

We survive because we can also have fun, admire beautiful things, listen to fantastic music, etc.
We survive for the same reasons they do, but the intelligence that sets us apart from other species allows us to listen to music, etc.

This is, of course, not true for all animals. Dogs, cats, birds, etc. have also been shown to have what can be considered "human" traits. (having fun, maybe sadness? Things that may not be only guided toward survival like fear and anger).
Everything is "guided toward survival", though it may not always be the right solution-- or a solution at all.

Perhaps all our human feelings are in fact in all animals because they all serve a purpose in survival?
They aren't. That which helps us survive is not necessarily helpful for another species.

[Edited on 01.01.2013 1:38 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 1:30 PM PDT

Time flies like an arrow; fruits flies like a banana.


Posted by: Dozen Plague

Posted by: TheEndIsNear NL

Posted by: Dozen Plague
Most animals are only instinctively driven and live their lives with one goal in mind: to survive and ensure the passing of their genetic code to their future offspring.

I disagree with this. One could argue that this is an individual animal's 'purpose,' but how can anyone know if they actually feel only the need to do this, and none other? Humans may be quite a bit more complicated mentally than most animals, but still... Who's to say animals do not take joy from 'hobbies,' or activities not necessarily leading to reproduction or survival?


I mentioned that in the OP. Did you not read all of it, or did you not understand it? I'm sorry if you didn't understand it, tell me and I'll modify it.

I said in the OP that it is possible that maybe all animals feel like us, but they express it so differently that we will never know.
I understand, I just wanted to give my thoughts on that statement, as it is a statement I commonly run into. I agree with the rest, in that, with our current technology, it's impossible to answer these questions because of the limits of research.


I will say that there are animals that reportedly 'mourn' for their dead, though that is anthropomorphising. If they truly do, that may tell us that some animals understand the finality of death.

[Edited on 01.01.2013 1:33 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 1:30 PM PDT

Everything you know is wrong.

I am sure animals, by witnessing the death of others, know by experience that a certain way will have them killed.

If you look at how Elephants work together, one of the most intelligent animals in earth, they know that some of their own are at risk for death in certain situations, however the victim may not know this. You can find interesting videos on YouTube about elephant behavior.

I believe the most certain way an animal knows it may die is by what it sees happen to others. Like a gazelle being killed by a lion. It's own may understand that in that situation a lion attack will have them killed, and animals know when their own are dead.

So, in some ways, yes, animals know that they will die.

Also, keep in mind that most animals are burdened to raising their offspring to ensure survival, and it is not just survival, but emotional structure, too. There have been incidences through elephants, pandas, lions, and primates where the death of an offspring triggers severe depression.

  • 01.01.2013 1:30 PM PDT

OP, you actually just blew my mind.

  • 01.01.2013 1:31 PM PDT

This world wants to drag you down... And the weight, that guilt they want to hang around your neck, you don’t have to carry it one more step. You think they won’t let you rest, but it’s not up to them. It never was.

Posted by: xBADMAGIKx
This thread will not end well.

*grabs popcorn*
... It won't?

OT: Kind of repeating what everyone else said, but even my guinea pig tried to hide somewhere to die. He was in a cage though, so all he could do was curl up behind the little wooden shelter we built him.

  • 01.01.2013 1:33 PM PDT

http://i.imgur.com/fsISj.png

This gorilla certainly does.

  • 01.01.2013 1:34 PM PDT

Posted by: Billygoat456
I'll bring the tritium laser cutters if you bring the beer!

Funny story.

Posted by: U2 Magnificence
Also, keep in mind that most animals are burdened to raising their offspring to ensure survival, and it is not just survival, but emotional structure, too. There have been incidences through elephants, pandas, lions, and primates where the death of an offspring triggers severe depression.
This for example.

  • 01.01.2013 1:34 PM PDT