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This topic has moved here: Subject: The commodification of the female gamer online
  • Subject: The commodification of the female gamer online
Subject: The commodification of the female gamer online
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Posted by: Ric_Adbur
Posted by: Baph117
Canadian Na­zism is a polite ideology, ok?
"Into the boxcar now... there you go. Oh, watch your head. Here, let me help you... Yep, showers are right through there. No problem at all."


Posted by: Xplode441
Posted by: NewRadical12
I don't think it's "surprising." I think it's disturbing.
Is this your first time on the internet?
lol. Because that's a justification for its continuation, yes?

"This is ok because it happens a lot and it happens a lot because it's ok."

Please, try to be less dense.

  • 01.01.2013 11:45 PM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: Smoke
Posted by: NewRadical12
No, it shows that the problem exists, contradicting your assertion that such is not a demonstrable claim.

Problem of what? Sexism?

I'm not a sexist, I'm stating that she was in fact, very promiscuous. Hardly a sexist comment.


that's what i was thinking. Smoke's post doesn't even hint at sexism, explicitly or implicitly.

  • 01.01.2013 11:45 PM PDT

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: Doctor Jensen
I've challenged my beliefs. What is the book about?


I find that this is usually untrue. If religious people honestly, diligently and intelligently challenged their beliefs, there would be no religious people.

i'm posting in this thread


that makes me clever




#freeseggi2013

  • 01.01.2013 11:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ric_Adbur
Posted by: Baph117
Canadian Na­zism is a polite ideology, ok?
"Into the boxcar now... there you go. Oh, watch your head. Here, let me help you... Yep, showers are right through there. No problem at all."

Posted by: doctor woot
#freeseggi2013

  • 01.01.2013 11:49 PM PDT

Artes, Scientia, Veritas

Sapere Aude

"But I do not think we're invincible"


Posted by: Smoke
Posted by: NewRadical12
No, it shows that the problem exists, contradicting your assertion that such is not a demonstrable claim.

Problem of what? Sexism?

I'm not a sexist, I'm stating that she was in fact, very promiscuous. Hardly a sexist comment.
Calling someone a "slut" is not the same as calling them "promiscuous." It's similar to the difference between calling someone physically attracted to the same sex a "(word that begins with a f)" and calling them "(word that begins with a g)." While their denotations are identical, their connotations are not. "Slut" has historically been used to shame female -blam!-ity and disempower women, and it is certainly a sexist term.

Using it does not make you a sexist, it just means that you did something sexist. It's okay, it happens, even to me. Just acknowledge it, apologize, move on, and try your best not to do it again.

  • 01.01.2013 11:49 PM PDT

Artes, Scientia, Veritas

Sapere Aude

"But I do not think we're invincible"


Posted by: Baph117
Posted by: doctor woot
#freeseggi2013

  • 01.01.2013 11:50 PM PDT

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: Doctor Jensen
I've challenged my beliefs. What is the book about?


I find that this is usually untrue. If religious people honestly, diligently and intelligently challenged their beliefs, there would be no religious people.

baph is the biggest slut of them all.

  • 01.01.2013 11:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ric_Adbur
Posted by: Baph117
Canadian Na­zism is a polite ideology, ok?
"Into the boxcar now... there you go. Oh, watch your head. Here, let me help you... Yep, showers are right through there. No problem at all."

^My IRL friends think so too..

Posted by: NewRadical12
I hope you didn't miss my post near the bottom of the last page <3

[Edited on 01.01.2013 11:51 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 11:50 PM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Posted by: NewRadical12
Took me two -blam!- seconds to find one. In a thread that you posted in.

That thread actually has a lot more sexism in it, though the linked post was the most obvious incident I could find.
Are you joking with me? I saw two posts in that thread that were hostile towards women/feminists. That's two posts in a two page thread about a war against women and men. That's not a problem.

Posted by: Baph117
lol. Because that's a justification for its continuation, yes?

"This is ok because it happens a lot and it happens a lot because it's ok."

Please, try to be less dense.
lol The point of the post was that I'm surprised that he finds something disturbing on the internet and the joke was that he must be new as most people see much more disturbing things than women jokes on the internet.

  • 01.01.2013 11:51 PM PDT

Es ist Zeit für einige Gefahr-pay


Posted by: NewRadical12

Posted by: Smoke
Posted by: NewRadical12
No, it shows that the problem exists, contradicting your assertion that such is not a demonstrable claim.

Problem of what? Sexism?

I'm not a sexist, I'm stating that she was in fact, very promiscuous. Hardly a sexist comment.
Calling someone a "slut" is not the same as calling them "promiscuous." It's similar to the difference between calling someone physically attracted to the same sex a "(word that begins with a f)" and calling them "(word that begins with a g)." While their denotations are identical, their connotations are not. "Slut" has historically been used to shame female -blam!-ity and disempower women, and it is certainly a sexist term.

Using it does not make you a sexist, it just means that you did something sexist. It's okay, it happens, even to me. Just acknowledge it, apologize, move on, and try your best not to do it again.


...

  • 01.01.2013 11:51 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Co M4N
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Also girls don't think about how males treat each other online. You voice is a little high? -blam!- do you get so much -blam!- from everyone else. You talking to your mates and another group of guys come into the game? You usually end up fighting with them. Don't get me started about how we all usually treat people of different nationality when we find em. But most of the times it happens when it's a group.

Women only think it happens to them and all that, and really if someone saying "get back in the kitchen" offends you that much, get the hell off the internet.

  • 01.01.2013 11:53 PM PDT

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: Doctor Jensen
I've challenged my beliefs. What is the book about?


I find that this is usually untrue. If religious people honestly, diligently and intelligently challenged their beliefs, there would be no religious people.


Posted by: Co M4N
Also girls don't think about how males treat each other online. You voice is a little high? -blam!- do you get so much -blam!- from everyone else. You talking to your mates and another group of guys come into the game? You usually end up fighting with them. Don't get me started about how we all usually treat people of different nationality when we find em. But most of the times it happens when it's a group.

Women only think it happens to them and all that, and really if someone saying "get back in the kitchen" offends you that much, get the hell off the internet.
way to miss the point so goddamn hard it amazes me you've managed to post in the right thread

  • 01.01.2013 11:54 PM PDT
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The who wishes, fervently wishes

I don't really care what you are, so long as you aren't a hacker, a bad teammate, or simply an idiot. I do find it ridiculous though that female gamers would seek a 'loftier' forum. There's probably a large amount of female gamers on the Flood, they simply don't advertise their gender to avoid attacks or attention. It would be unlikely that 50% of an entire gaming group would avoid a festering pit such as the Flood, and our glorious deadpan humor.

  • 01.01.2013 11:54 PM PDT

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: Doctor Jensen
I've challenged my beliefs. What is the book about?


I find that this is usually untrue. If religious people honestly, diligently and intelligently challenged their beliefs, there would be no religious people.


Posted by: Wyzilla
It would be unlikely that 50% of an entire gaming group would avoid a festering pit such as the Flood, and our glorious deadpan humor.
The flood's humor is anything but deadpan.

  • 01.01.2013 11:56 PM PDT

Artes, Scientia, Veritas

Sapere Aude

"But I do not think we're invincible"


Posted by: Baph117
I'm not saying women brought it on themselves by any means. However, I don't think a society would develop in such a way that 50% of the population thought was entirely negative for them. To put it another way, I think that women, in the times when patriarchies were forming, preferred patriarchy to the alternative.
I'm no anthropologist, but I think that male dominance is so entrenched in the evolutionary history of our species that it preceded any ability within our species of individuals to cognitively analyze the benefits of "patriarchy" versus any alternative. It was simply instinct.

I'm also not sure what relevance women "thinking it was entirely negative for them" has. People can be quite easily led to believe things are in their benefit under immense societal pressure. That does not make it so.

I also think that s*xual selection in humans encourages societies where political control is concentrated in the male population. Social status plays a uniquely important role in whether or not a woman is attracted to a man, in ways that are not reflected in male attraction to women.
Probably. I don't really think that that has been normatively relevant for a couple thousand years.

Explain.The modern firearm really made the need for a male protector irrelevant.Men still do most of the protecting, don't they?

Great industrialization and commercialism in general had this affect too. Essentially, machines eased much of the burden of being a homemaker, giving women more free time and making the prospect of gender equality, as we understand it in modern times, viable for the first time in human history.Probably.

  • 01.01.2013 11:59 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Co M4N
  • user homepage:


Posted by: doctor woot

Posted by: Co M4N
Also girls don't think about how males treat each other online. You voice is a little high? -blam!- do you get so much -blam!- from everyone else. You talking to your mates and another group of guys come into the game? You usually end up fighting with them. Don't get me started about how we all usually treat people of different nationality when we find em. But most of the times it happens when it's a group.

Women only think it happens to them and all that, and really if someone saying "get back in the kitchen" offends you that much, get the hell off the internet.
way to miss the point so goddamn hard it amazes me you've managed to post in the right thread


Tell me how the did I miss the point so much? Girl complaining about how they get treated online and in games, I state the males do it to each others just if not worse, so build a bridge and get over it.

  • 01.01.2013 11:59 PM PDT

Hanger one I just shredded with the SMGs until ammo was out and I just threw 'nades like a boss while BRing.

My experience playing Cairo Station on Legendary

As valid as some of your points may be, they're extremely skewed; especially the section discussing cosplay. I've witness discussions about ability to fulfill roles go south and the some. Women are definitely mistreated when their gender is exposed, but it's sort of a stigma for now.

Historically, women have always been viewed as beings that should raise children, often work, and exist to please men. [This isn't sexist, it's how Agrarian Societies ran for thousands of years, and even into today] What occurs is when the opposite gender is caught outside their ascribed roles, they're belittled/ridiculed.

Gaming is a stigmatized venue built around male dominance, so it's not surprising when situations go south. Imagine how University students felt as women began flooding in after years of ostracizing them.

Just my two cents worth.

  • 01.02.2013 12:00 AM PDT

Artes, Scientia, Veritas

Sapere Aude

"But I do not think we're invincible"


Posted by: Sector Z 157
Historically, women have always been viewed as beings that should raise children, often work, and exist to please men. [This isn't sexist, it's how Agrarian Societies ran for thousands of years, and even into today] What occurs is when the opposite gender is caught outside their ascribed roles, they're belittled/ridiculed.
What does this have to do with the normative question of how we should treat women now?

  • 01.02.2013 12:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: Ric_Adbur
Posted by: Baph117
Canadian Na­zism is a polite ideology, ok?
"Into the boxcar now... there you go. Oh, watch your head. Here, let me help you... Yep, showers are right through there. No problem at all."

Posted by: NewRadical12
I'm no anthropologist, but I think that male dominance is so entrenched in the evolutionary history of our species that it preceded any ability within our species of individuals to cognitively analyze the benefits of "patriarchy" versus any alternative. It was simply instinct.
I did a poor job of expressing myself, because I agree. I wasn't trying to speak in terms of women rationally deciding that they were better served by patriarchy.

Probably. I don't really think that that has been normatively relevant for a couple thousand years.That was my explanation for how patriarchy started, not why it continues to exist.

Men still do most of the protecting, don't they?On a global scale, yes. But personally, a woman couldn't practically defend herself against a man until the modern firearm existed.

  • 01.02.2013 12:03 AM PDT

Artes, Scientia, Veritas

Sapere Aude

"But I do not think we're invincible"


Posted by: Baph117

Men still do most of the protecting, don't they?On a global scale, yes. But personally, a woman couldn't practically defend herself against a man until the modern firearm existed.
I'm still skeptical of how often this actually happens, even though your theoretical approach makes sense.

  • 01.02.2013 12:05 AM PDT

Hanger one I just shredded with the SMGs until ammo was out and I just threw 'nades like a boss while BRing.

My experience playing Cairo Station on Legendary

What it does is explain where we, as a functioning society have come from. If we have permitted women's suffrage, and have been getting somewhat closer to gender equality, then something as trivial as gaming should be overcome with relative ease.

I guess I was hoping that readers would infer that message.

EDIT: Just to make sure the message in this message is understood, it's that current trends of preventing sexist behaviors, such as punishment and the establishment of non-arbitrary rules, should be present, even in virtual communities.
Posted by: NewRadical12
What does this have to do with the normative question of how we should treat women now?


[Edited on 01.02.2013 12:10 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 12:05 AM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: NewRadical12

Posted by: Smoke
Posted by: NewRadical12
No, it shows that the problem exists, contradicting your assertion that such is not a demonstrable claim.

Problem of what? Sexism?

I'm not a sexist, I'm stating that she was in fact, very promiscuous. Hardly a sexist comment.
Calling someone a "slut" is not the same as calling them "promiscuous." It's similar to the difference between calling someone physically attracted to the same sex a "(word that begins with a f)" and calling them "(word that begins with a g)." While their denotations are identical, their connotations are not. "Slut" has historically been used to shame female -blam!-ity and disempower women, and it is certainly a sexist term.

Using it does not make you a sexist, it just means that you did something sexist. It's okay, it happens, even to me. Just acknowledge it, apologize, move on, and try your best not to do it again.


Sometimes people like to use certain words to make their thoughts more powerful. Feelings are expressed at different levels, and a person calling someone a slut over being called promiscuous just means that this person holds his beliefs/values strongly. Wrong is wrong. The way you tell it just says how much you agree (or disagree).


  • 01.02.2013 12:07 AM PDT
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Posted by: Ric_Adbur
Posted by: Baph117
Canadian Na­zism is a polite ideology, ok?
"Into the boxcar now... there you go. Oh, watch your head. Here, let me help you... Yep, showers are right through there. No problem at all."


Posted by: NewRadical12

Posted by: Baph117

Men still do most of the protecting, don't they?On a global scale, yes. But personally, a woman couldn't practically defend herself against a man until the modern firearm existed.
I'm still skeptical of how often this actually happens, even though your theoretical approach makes sense.
It is almost certainly a minor factor compared to the advent of other technologies. However, a society where women can defend themselves creates a society where women are thought of being able to defend themselves, which is ultimately more beneficial in the first place.

  • 01.02.2013 12:07 AM PDT

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: Doctor Jensen
I've challenged my beliefs. What is the book about?


I find that this is usually untrue. If religious people honestly, diligently and intelligently challenged their beliefs, there would be no religious people.


Posted by: Co M4N
Tell me how the did I miss the point so much? Girl complaining about how they get treated online and in games, I state the males do it to each others just if not worse, so build a bridge and get over it.
Your annoying ass voice very likely does not net you anywhere near the same systematic discrimination and prejudice women face throughout first world societies, an attitude which is amplified online and made to make women feel unwelcome in situations that stray even a little bit from historically established conventions. In the end you're still a guy and still allowed to do guy things, whether you sound like Gary Coleman or not.

  • 01.02.2013 12:13 AM PDT

Artes, Scientia, Veritas

Sapere Aude

"But I do not think we're invincible"


Posted by: Baph117

Posted by: NewRadical12

Posted by: Baph117

Men still do most of the protecting, don't they?On a global scale, yes. But personally, a woman couldn't practically defend herself against a man until the modern firearm existed.
I'm still skeptical of how often this actually happens, even though your theoretical approach makes sense.
It is almost certainly a minor factor compared to the advent of other technologies. However, a society where women can defend themselves creates a society where women are thought of being able to defend themselves, which is ultimately more beneficial in the first place.
I agree that this has happened, but I don't think it's worked as well as you appear to. I think, largely, that women are still socialized to believe that men are to be their protectors and those of society.

  • 01.02.2013 12:33 AM PDT