Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: The commodification of the female gamer online
  • Subject: The commodification of the female gamer online
Subject: The commodification of the female gamer online
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t3hAvenger77 - XBL (BF3, ME3, Blops)
decla1mer104 - Origin (BF3)
Steam

There's this girl I know that is an avid PS3 gamer.

  • 01.02.2013 12:39 AM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.

Christ. doctor woot is agreeing with me. Is the apocalypse nigh? :P

Posted by: Studnessyep

Because he has to pay for it. No matter the circumstances of her getting pregnant (lied about being on the pill, forgot, etc). It's still his responsiblity. It's a theme for an age where women have choices but men have responisiblies.

It's not his right to force her to get an abortion, but its not her right to force him to pay for a decision of having a child she alone made. Yet the law favors women.
There's no law saying men are forced to pay for abortions. What?

Posted by: Baph117
Yeah, I recognize that a lot of problems face by men today are a result of the same social structures that have oppressed women. However, I don't think it is wise to ignore the historical impact women themselves have had on enabling those social structures, and the ways women had benefited up until the 20th century. The advent of the modern firearm in the early 1900's really did a lot for the advancement of women's rights as we understand them, I think.
As I believe New Radical has pointed out, given that women were systematically marginalised for hundreds upon hundreds of years (not allowed to learn how to read, restricted from certain jobs, etc.), it wasn't so much a case of women enabling their own oppression (though there was some of that, definitely - women have been slut-shaming for centuries!) as that they lacked the tools to fight it.

Posted by: WhitestKidUKnow
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Re: most of your post, see my reply to Baph. But in relation to birth control rights: why exactly would it be a man's right to decide whether or not a woman would terminate a pregnancy that she has to carry, exactly?
Not really trying to get into this debate, however, it does seem unfair that the father has no say over whether the child lives or dies for a child he wants, however, the mother can force him into paying child support for a child he doesn't want.
Well, the woman has to carry the child, so she gets to decide whether or not to abort because it's a decision about her body, not really about the child. Fathers have to pay child support because when a child is born, they were part of creating that child and have a responsibility towards its maintenance. Mostly, it's unfair to expect the state to support mothers with children whose fathers have decided to abandon them. It's more in the state's interest than anything else.

Posted by: Xplode441
I like how OP avoids answering the question that attempts to make the big rant on the first page void.

Where is the problem that the Flood has and why are you trying to fix a problem that no one can seem to determine exists?
This thread has pretty conclusively proven that the problem exists.

Given that you admitted that you're sexist pages back, you're as much a part of it as anyone else.

Posted by: NewRadical12
Calling someone a "slut" is not the same as calling them "promiscuous." It's similar to the difference between calling someone physically attracted to the same sex a "(word that begins with a f)" and calling them "(word that begins with a g)." While their denotations are identical, their connotations are not. "Slut" has historically been used to shame female -blam!-ity and disempower women, and it is certainly a sexist term.

Using it does not make you a sexist, it just means that you did something sexist. It's okay, it happens, even to me. Just acknowledge it, apologize, move on, and try your best not to do it again.
On the other hand, refusing to stop using it or insisting that it's not sexist of you to use it does make you sexist.

(general "you", not saying you do this)

Posted by: Co M4N
Also girls don't think about how males treat each other online. You voice is a little high? -blam!- do you get so much -blam!- from everyone else. [...]

Women only think it happens to them and all that, and really if someone saying "get back in the kitchen" offends you that much, get the hell off the internet.
Yes, because if your voice is high people think you sound like a woman, which is supposedly bad.

And I'm sorry it makes you mad that people are offended by sexism, but that's your problem, not mine.

  • 01.02.2013 12:54 AM PDT

"Before you insult someone, try walking a mile in their shoes. This way, when you insult them, you are a mile away and have their shoes."

If a gamerchick wants everyone to know she is a chick, she's not there for the games, she's there for the attention. If anything else, move on and play.

  • 01.02.2013 12:56 AM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: davadude
If a gamerchick wants everyone to know she is a chick, she's not there for the games, she's there for the attention. If anything else, move on and play.
What makes that different from a guy posting for attention?

  • 01.02.2013 12:57 AM PDT

A competitive players main goal is to win.
A casuals main goal is to have fun regardless of whether that results in a win or loss.
It has nothing to do with individual skill or knowledge, it has to do with the reason you play.

My girlfriend plays video games, well mainly Kinect Fitness crap and Minecraft 360, but she occasionally played Halo with me on split-screen or even Battlefield 3, she has like 15 hours played.

  • 01.02.2013 1:03 AM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

Posted by: Ric_Adbur
Posted by: Baph117
Canadian Na­zism is a polite ideology, ok?
"Into the boxcar now... there you go. Oh, watch your head. Here, let me help you... Yep, showers are right through there. No problem at all."


Posted by: jaythenerdkid
As I believe New Radical has pointed out, given that women were systematically marginalised for hundreds upon hundreds of years (not allowed to learn how to read, restricted from certain jobs, etc.), it wasn't so much a case of women enabling their own oppression (though there was some of that, definitely - women have been slut-shaming for centuries!) as that they lacked the tools to fight it.
I agree. I just enjoy looking at things from a less common perspective.

  • 01.02.2013 1:05 AM PDT

Trussingdoor is pretty kewl. He fires lasers and doesn't afraid of anything.

Now, Jay, you spent so much time writing that long OP. You could be doing something much more productive. Like making sand-















-catsles

  • 01.02.2013 1:09 AM PDT

Trussingdoor is pretty kewl. He fires lasers and doesn't afraid of anything.


Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: davadude
If a gamerchick wants everyone to know she is a chick, she's not there for the games, she's there for the attention. If anything else, move on and play.
What makes that different from a guy posting for attention?
Nothing. Guys just don't succeed in it as easily.

  • 01.02.2013 1:11 AM PDT

Posted by: jaythenerdkid
There's no law saying men are forced to pay for abortions. What?


Lol that's your counter arguement jay? A couple hundred dollar quick procedure over 18 years of several thousand dollars (usually in the six figures) worth of support?

If that's all you got then you know you really are grasping at straws.

[Edited on 01.02.2013 1:21 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 1:13 AM PDT

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I believe estimates run as high as 50% of gamers being women


And the Wii has come in first place for console sales. Women aren't lacking in gaming. They are lacking in what we would consider "hardcore gaming." XBL, Steam, using voice chat, playing a game that has a deeper learning curve than farmville, etc..

[Edited on 01.02.2013 1:17 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 1:16 AM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Posted by: jaythenerdkid
This thread has pretty conclusively proven that the problem exists.

Given that you admitted that you're sexist pages back, you're as much a part of it as anyone else.
First off, no. This thread has proven nothing as far as showing that the Flood has a problem with this. If it were an actual problem, it would pool out of this thread and it would be visible everywhere. It's not.

Secondly, I'm not sexist. I said that I'm only sexist when it's humorous. You saw that as me saying "Women are second-class citizens". You don't know me, but I'm the most respectful mother -blam!- you'll meet to women, that is, unless they give me multiple reasons to hate them. When I say that I'm only sexist when it's humorous, that translates to: "I enjoy women jokes."

This translates my feelings right now.

  • 01.02.2013 1:19 AM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: Iggyhopper
I believe estimates run as high as 50% of gamers being women


And the Wii has come in first place for console sales. Women aren't lacking in gaming. They are lacking in what we would consider "hardcore gaming." XBL, Steam, using voice chat, etc..
I think that once we start trying to decide which kinds of gaming are legitimate enough to "count" for admission to some kind of clique, we run the risk of a) shutting out women from further participation in "hardcore" gaming due to intimidation, and b) appointing ourselves judge and jury over something that, let's be honest, is supposed to be fun no matter how you choose to engage with it.

Does it really matter if some girls are just playing Wii Sports or Mario Party with their friends? If it gets them more interested in a subculture that many of us love and are invested in, why spend time judging their motives when we could be getting excited that we have more people to share our passions with?

And if they end up not being into exactly the same things as we are, who cares? Like I said upthread, it'd be pretty silly of me to arbitrarily decide that anyone who hasn't played a 90s Epic Megagames platformer isn't a real gamer, so why set other kinds of arbitrary standards? Gaming is a hugely diverse hobby that allows for various levels of engagement and enjoyment. Why throw stones when we could just do our thing, enjoy our hobby the way we like, and let others do the same?

  • 01.02.2013 1:20 AM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: Xplode441
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
This thread has pretty conclusively proven that the problem exists.

Given that you admitted that you're sexist pages back, you're as much a part of it as anyone else.
First off, no. This thread has proven nothing as far as showing that the Flood has a problem with this. If it were an actual problem, it would pool out of this thread and it would be visible everywhere. It's not.

Secondly, I'm not sexist. I said that I'm only sexist when it's humorous. You saw that as me saying "Women are second-class citizens". You don't know me, but I'm the most respectful mother -blam!- you'll meet to women, that is, unless they give me multiple reasons to hate them. When I say that I'm only sexist when it's humorous, that translates to: "I enjoy women jokes."

This translates my feelings right now.
"I'm not sexist, except when I totally am!"

Okay.

  • 01.02.2013 1:21 AM PDT

Artes, Scientia, Veritas

Sapere Aude

"But I do not think we're invincible"


Posted by: Iggyhopper
I believe estimates run as high as 50% of gamers being women


And the Wii has come in first place for console sales. Women aren't lacking in gaming. They are lacking in what we would consider "hardcore gaming." XBL, Steam, using voice chat, playing a game that has a deeper learning curve than farmville, etc..
If it is true that women are less represented in "hardcore gaming" than they are in gaming in general, then I wonder if the hatred for "casuals" somewhat compounds the problem of sexism towards women who try to get into "hardcore gaming." Just a thought...

  • 01.02.2013 1:21 AM PDT

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Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: Iggyhopper
I believe estimates run as high as 50% of gamers being women


And the Wii has come in first place for console sales. Women aren't lacking in gaming. They are lacking in what we would consider "hardcore gaming." XBL, Steam, using voice chat, etc..
I think that once we start trying to decide which kinds of gaming are legitimate enough to "count" for admission to some kind of clique, we run the risk of a) shutting out women from further participation in "hardcore" gaming due to intimidation, and b) appointing ourselves judge and jury over something that, let's be honest, is supposed to be fun no matter how you choose to engage with it.

Does it really matter if some girls are just playing Wii Sports or Mario Party with their friends? If it gets them more interested in a subculture that many of us love and are invested in, why spend time judging their motives when we could be getting excited that we have more people to share our passions with?

And if they end up not being into exactly the same things as we are, who cares? Like I said upthread, it'd be pretty silly of me to arbitrarily decide that anyone who hasn't played a 90s Epic Megagames platformer isn't a real gamer, so why set other kinds of arbitrary standards? Gaming is a hugely diverse hobby that allows for various levels of engagement and enjoyment. Why throw stones when we could just do our thing, enjoy our hobby the way we like, and let others do the same?
But that's where most of everyone else is right now, especially the people you're talking to right now! Of course there will be a perception of a lack of female gamers.

[Edited on 01.02.2013 1:24 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 1:22 AM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: Iggyhopper
But that's where most of everyone else is right now, especially the people you're talking to right now! Of course there will be a perception of a lack of female gamers.
As New Radical said, can you blame them for being hesitant to explore more "hardcore" games when the online reaction to women in gaming is, well...like this?

  • 01.02.2013 1:25 AM PDT

Trussingdoor is pretty kewl. He fires lasers and doesn't afraid of anything.

I have plenty of female gamer friends who have never been harrassed online. Like seriously, not a single one.

  • 01.02.2013 1:26 AM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Posted by: jaythenerdkid
"I'm not sexist, except when I totally am!"

Okay.
Because cracking jokes definitely means that I'm actively trying to demean women and lower them in the social hierarchy.

Posted by: TrussingDoor
I have plenty of female gamer friends who have never been harrassed online. Like seriously, not a single one.
As do I.

[Edited on 01.02.2013 1:27 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 1:26 AM PDT

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Posted by: NewRadical12

Posted by: Iggyhopper
I believe estimates run as high as 50% of gamers being women


And the Wii has come in first place for console sales. Women aren't lacking in gaming. They are lacking in what we would consider "hardcore gaming." XBL, Steam, using voice chat, playing a game that has a deeper learning curve than farmville, etc..
If it is true that women are less represented in "hardcore gaming" than they are in gaming in general, then I wonder if the hatred for "casuals" somewhat compounds the problem of sexism towards women who try to get into "hardcore gaming." Just a thought...
Well, I'm sure it's worse for women, but that us vs them mindset is already apparent between individual games and fanbases regardless of gender.

  • 01.02.2013 1:29 AM PDT


Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: Iggyhopper
But that's where most of everyone else is right now, especially the people you're talking to right now! Of course there will be a perception of a lack of female gamers.
As New Radical said, can you blame them for being hesitant to explore more "hardcore" games when the online reaction to women in gaming is, well...like this?


This thread is gonna keep going in circles. I don't think I have ever seen someone so desperate to make themselves and their gender such a victim over a non issue.

  • 01.02.2013 1:31 AM PDT
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I find that Teh-Ziod is NOT attractive for the reasons
she/he does not correct format sentences, therefore for intelligent matured members of society that may interact with her/him, may find her/him UNattractive for the reason that she/he does not comprehend with their level to successfully have a conversation therefore it will be socially an awkward interaction which may be wanted to be avoided

second i do not find it physically possible for a PERSON to be a ice cream truck.

Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Posted by: WhitestKidUKnow
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Re: most of your post, see my reply to Baph. But in relation to birth control rights: why exactly would it be a man's right to decide whether or not a woman would terminate a pregnancy that she has to carry, exactly?
Not really trying to get into this debate, however, it does seem unfair that the father has no say over whether the child lives or dies for a child he wants, however, the mother can force him into paying child support for a child he doesn't want.
Well, the woman has to carry the child, so she gets to decide whether or not to abort because it's a decision about her body, not really about the child. Fathers have to pay child support because when a child is born, they were part of creating that child and have a responsibility towards its maintenance. Mostly, it's unfair to expect the state to support mothers with children whose fathers have decided to abandon them. It's more in the state's interest than anything else.
You see no issue with that though? If the child is a responsibility of both parents, why shouldn't he be able to intervene when it comes to abortion? Put yourself in the place of a father who wanted the child to find out your partner aborted, I'm sure you would be livid, would you not? By no means am I advocating that child abandoning fathers are justified, Hell, I don't know my father and if given chance I would probably try to fight him. It just seems completely unfair to me.

  • 01.02.2013 1:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: Ric_Adbur
Posted by: Baph117
Canadian Na­zism is a polite ideology, ok?
"Into the boxcar now... there you go. Oh, watch your head. Here, let me help you... Yep, showers are right through there. No problem at all."


Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Well, the woman has to carry the child, so she gets to decide whether or not to abort because it's a decision about her body, not really about the child. Fathers have to pay child support because when a child is born, they were part of creating that child and have a responsibility towards its maintenance. Mostly, it's unfair to expect the state to support mothers with children whose fathers have decided to abandon them. It's more in the state's interest than anything else.
Come one Jay. If a man has no right to dictate whether or not a woman gets an abortion, then she has no right to claim financial aid for a child he never wanted in the first place. The severance of that responsibility is referred to as a "financial abortion", and should be perfectly acceptable to anyone who supports a woman's right to choose.

  • 01.02.2013 1:35 AM PDT

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Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: Iggyhopper
But that's where most of everyone else is right now, especially the people you're talking to right now! Of course there will be a perception of a lack of female gamers.
As New Radical said, can you blame them for being hesitant to explore more "hardcore" games when the online reaction to women in gaming is, well...like this?
Very true. A girl actually has sexism from both genders, too. First, she has to overcome the social pressure from other girls and their parents and their perception of gaming for girls.

Another factor isviolent video game scares. I mean just look, CNN did a little segment on StarCraft II and violent games as maybe a factor for the Newtown shooting. No mom wants their kids to play "violent" games, especially their daughters. Since parents are the deciding factor on how girls grow up with gaming, this can be pretty large in determining how they approach it as they grow older.

Once you dive in, the rest is just learning to deal, for both genders. Guys can get pretty rowdy with each other, as well as call them tons of obscenities, some bigoted, some not. Either the gaming world is going to be nicer or girls will just have to accept the culture. The sexism might go away but the harshness won't. They'll just have to deal.

[Edited on 01.02.2013 1:58 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 1:57 AM PDT

1LUV


Posted by: SuperSonic527
Cooking games are all that is acceptable.
I heard that there's going to be a new Cooking Mama game this year.

  • 01.02.2013 2:11 AM PDT

Key

We get it. You're a girl. Christ.

  • 01.02.2013 2:56 AM PDT