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  • Subject: The commodification of the female gamer online
Subject: The commodification of the female gamer online
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

I've never been a fan of bullies or jerks. Sorry you're going through that, OP.

If you're playing XBL I would suggest you limit your speech to team and party only. It makes a world of difference.

  • 01.01.2013 10:12 PM PDT


Posted by: Teh Pink Wolf

Posted by: NinjaLord77

Posted by: Nephilim713

Lol. I think both of you need to go to bed.


I R confused. She was agreeing with someone but didn't post their name.

  • 01.01.2013 10:13 PM PDT

If we disagree, it's nothing personal, opinions are opinions.
Antagonizing me to build a false sense of worth is so damn cute.

Brighten your day with science.

Posted by: Nephilim713



Posted by: Nephilim713

This might be the first time I actually see a good post from you. I agree with this.


Teh pink wolf

Meh. The Flood isn't worth any good, thought out posts.


I do agree with you. Most people here cannot even give well thought of posts. Maybe I just saw something in it that we really agree with? =]

You are both females.

I kid.

  • 01.01.2013 10:15 PM PDT


Posted by: DarkSunnyboy1
Posted by: Nephilim713



Posted by: Nephilim713

This might be the first time I actually see a good post from you. I agree with this.


Teh pink wolf

Meh. The Flood isn't worth any good, thought out posts.


I do agree with you. Most people here cannot even give well thought of posts. Maybe I just saw something in it that we really agree with? =]

You are both females.

I kid.


Now I see. Damn I am tired

  • 01.01.2013 10:16 PM PDT


Posted by: Nephilim713
Most people here cannot even give well thought of posts.

I well to happen out great posts think of.

  • 01.01.2013 10:17 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

Posted by: Ric_Adbur
Posted by: Baph117
Canadian Na­zism is a polite ideology, ok?
"Into the boxcar now... there you go. Oh, watch your head. Here, let me help you... Yep, showers are right through there. No problem at all."

Nice post Jay.

I like to think of these in terms of evolutionary psychology. For the better part of history, women were a resource of sorts. Social groups had to protect their women in order to survive. This objectified women, to be sure, but in the days before guns and modern medicine, the benefits outweighed the negatives, which is why patriarchal societies have been the norm throughout history and into the modern era.

In this particular situation, I think this tendency for male gamers to focus on the femaleness of female gamers to be a continuation of this (in my opinion) evolved trait. Female gamers are part of gamer society, and thus a "resource" that belongs to the gamer society in ways that male gamers are not.

  • 01.01.2013 10:22 PM PDT

I decided instead of reading through a bunch of posts to see if my point has already been made. I'll just say it.
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Female gamers are not actually rare - I believe estimates run as high as 50% of gamers being women, which makes sense when you consider that women also make up slightly more than 50% of the planet's population.


This is bogus and you know it there's a difference between a "GAMER" and a consumer who might occasionally buy games. Buying Bejeweled or Angry Birds doesn't make you a gamer. Which is what all of the studies that say 50% of gamers are girls consider a gamer.

I'd say the actual number is more like 25% of all "gamers", and I'm willing to bet a large portion of these woman don't play half as often as Males and thus they are even rarer than 25%.

I think I'm being rather generous in my estimates.

but that doesn't make any of what goes on in communitys like these okay. Just because a group of people is a slight rarity doesn't make it okay to Give them crap about it.

  • 01.01.2013 10:26 PM PDT


Posted by: Baph117
Nice post Jay.

I like to think of these in terms of evolutionary psychology. For the better part of history, women were a resource of sorts. Social groups had to protect their women in order to survive. This objectified women, to be sure, but in the days before guns and modern medicine, the benefits outweighed the negatives, which is why patriarchal societies have been the norm throughout history and into the modern era.

In this particular situation, I think this tendency for male gamers to focus on the femaleness of female gamers to be a continuation of this (in my opinion) evolved trait. Female gamers are part of gamer society, and thus a "resource" that belongs to the gamer society in ways that male gamers are not.
Your coup good sir, you have my respect.

  • 01.01.2013 10:26 PM PDT

"The point of war is not to die for your country but to make the other son of a -blam!- die for his." George S. Patton

Posted by: Achronos
Every post whining about the weekly update delays it by 5 minutes.

seriously its true

everybody shut up this thread is stupid

(yes i know its racism but it applies to sexism also)

  • 01.01.2013 10:46 PM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: Xplode441
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Ah, so you admit that you're sexist and part of the problem, and resent the fact that you may be asked to be part of the solution.
I'm sexist when it's humorous to be so. And saying "Don't post sexist jokes" isn't a -blam!- solution. I've said this multiple times, but it doesn't seem to be getting through your head.
As a guy, you have the liberty of only not being sexist when it suits you.

As a woman, I'm affected by it all the time.

Easy for you to dismiss something as unimportant when it doesn't affect you, isn't it?

Posted by: NinjaLord77
I'd never call you a whore Jay but some people deserve the negativity that they receive. Like the damn Kardashians, get the hell off TV.
Kim Kardashian is a terrible person, but it has nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman and everything to do with the fact that she's a talentless hack who has turned her personal life into a worthless commodity that people nonetheless seem willing to buy.

So yeah, calling her a bad person or a waste of space might be warranted - but calling her a whore never is.

It's the same for women on this site that I don't like. I dislike them because I find them unpleasant as people, but I'd never participate in or condone any kind of gender-based harassment, no matter what I think of them personally.

Posted by: Duardo
I've never been a fan of bullies or jerks. Sorry you're going through that, OP.

If you're playing XBL I would suggest you limit your speech to team and party only. It makes a world of difference.
A long time ago - it'd be about two years now - I was on a team in Reach that beat another team, and in the postgame lobby, a bunch of people were talking trash to me because I was a girl. I said something to shut them down and left the party, only to have one guy spam me with voice messages asking me when (not even if, when!) I was going to cut the crap and cyber with him.

I've stayed in party chat ever since.

Posted by: Baph117
Nice post Jay.

I like to think of these in terms of evolutionary psychology. For the better part of history, women were a resource of sorts. Social groups had to protect their women in order to survive. This objectified women, to be sure, but in the days before guns and modern medicine, the benefits outweighed the negatives, which is why patriarchal societies have been the norm throughout history and into the modern era.

In this particular situation, I think this tendency for male gamers to focus on the femaleness of female gamers to be a continuation of this (in my opinion) evolved trait. Female gamers are part of gamer society, and thus a "resource" that belongs to the gamer society in ways that male gamers are not.
But most reputable scientists think evo psych is garbage, don't they?

Which is not to say that I don't think your post is true - I think that what you're saying is a justification people use for perpetuating gender stereotypes and discrimination. But to act as though it's a valid justification is a bit problematic.

Posted by: theTYTAN3
I decided instead of reading through a bunch of posts to see if my point has already been made. I'll just say it.
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Female gamers are not actually rare - I believe estimates run as high as 50% of gamers being women, which makes sense when you consider that women also make up slightly more than 50% of the planet's population.


This is bogus and you know it there's a difference between a "GAMER" and a consumer who might occasionally buy games. Buying Bejeweled or Angry Birds doesn't make you a gamer. Which is what all of the studies that say 50% of gamers are girls consider a gamer.

I'd say the actual number is more like 25% of all "gamers", and I'm willing to bet a large portion of these woman don't play half as often as Males and thus they are even rarer than 25%.

I think I'm being rather generous in my estimates.

but that doesn't make any of what goes on in communitys like these okay. Just because a group of people is a slight rarity doesn't make it okay to Give them crap about it.
Ah, gamer elitism.

I was wondering how long it'd take.

As a child of the 90s, I actually consider everyone who's never played an Epic Megagames PC title a casual gamer. Get out of my thread, poser.

(Protip: you don't get to decide which games are geeky enough to count and which ones aren't. People game because they enjoy it, not to gain admittance into some kind of social clique.)

  • 01.01.2013 10:54 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

Posted by: Ric_Adbur
Posted by: Baph117
Canadian Na­zism is a polite ideology, ok?
"Into the boxcar now... there you go. Oh, watch your head. Here, let me help you... Yep, showers are right through there. No problem at all."


Posted by: jaythenerdkid
But most reputable scientists think evo psych is garbage, don't they?
There is a multitude of factors as to the current esteem in which evolutionary psych is viewed, which I don't particularly desire to go into ITT, unless you want me to.

Which is not to say that I don't think your post is true - I think that what you're saying is a justification people use for perpetuating gender stereotypes and discrimination. But to act as though it's a valid justification is a bit problematic.Oh, of course not. I'm definitely not saying this is a good excuse and that it is an acceptable practice, I'm just stating my opinion as to what I think the cause of this trend is.

  • 01.01.2013 10:57 PM PDT

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: Doctor Jensen
I've challenged my beliefs. What is the book about?


I find that this is usually untrue. If religious people honestly, diligently and intelligently challenged their beliefs, there would be no religious people.


Posted by: DarkSunnyboy1
You are both females.

I kid.
Only partially.

  • 01.01.2013 11:01 PM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Posted by: jaythenerdkid
As a guy, you have the liberty of only not being sexist when it suits you.

As a woman, I'm affected by it all the time.

Easy for you to dismiss something as unimportant when it doesn't affect you, isn't it?
Do you... do you really think that there aren't men out there who also get butthurt over sexism against them. It's called sexism because it can affect people of either sex.

Show me where the Flood has shown itself to have a problem being sexist.

  • 01.01.2013 11:02 PM PDT

"The point of war is not to die for your country but to make the other son of a -blam!- die for his." George S. Patton

Posted by: Achronos
Every post whining about the weekly update delays it by 5 minutes.

.......

  • 01.01.2013 11:02 PM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: Xplode441
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
As a guy, you have the liberty of only not being sexist when it suits you.

As a woman, I'm affected by it all the time.

Easy for you to dismiss something as unimportant when it doesn't affect you, isn't it?
Do you... do you really think that there aren't men out there who also get butthurt over sexism against them. It's called sexism because it can affect people of either sex.

Show me where the Flood has shown itself to have a problem being sexist.
This thread, for starters.

And if you seriously think sexism against men is on the same level as misogyny, or has nearly as many far-reaching implications...

*sigh*

Google "men's rights activism" some time and check out the kind of company you're in.

  • 01.01.2013 11:05 PM PDT

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: Doctor Jensen
I've challenged my beliefs. What is the book about?


I find that this is usually untrue. If religious people honestly, diligently and intelligently challenged their beliefs, there would be no religious people.

This thread is too funny.

  • 01.01.2013 11:07 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

Posted by: Ric_Adbur
Posted by: Baph117
Canadian Na­zism is a polite ideology, ok?
"Into the boxcar now... there you go. Oh, watch your head. Here, let me help you... Yep, showers are right through there. No problem at all."


Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Google "men's rights activism" some time and check out the kind of company you're in.
RESPOND TO ME

And the MRM isn't all bad. They've got some valuable insights that the aren't often made on the other side of the ideological aisle.

  • 01.01.2013 11:09 PM PDT

"The point of war is not to die for your country but to make the other son of a -blam!- die for his." George S. Patton

Posted by: Achronos
Every post whining about the weekly update delays it by 5 minutes.


Posted by: doctor woot
This thread is too funny.
this is me

  • 01.01.2013 11:10 PM PDT

If we disagree, it's nothing personal, opinions are opinions.
Antagonizing me to build a false sense of worth is so damn cute.

Brighten your day with science.

Posted by: doctor woot
This thread is too funny.

4u

  • 01.01.2013 11:10 PM PDT

I met 2 girls in halo reach one of them ended up adding me on Facebook and the other girl asked me to join her clan and we have been friends ever since.. This girl also occasionally sends everyone voice messages of her singing songs. For example at Christmas she sent me a message of her singing Christmas carols it really adorable.

On a side note its funny when two random gamer girls meet in a lobby and clash its usually popcorn worthy.

  • 01.01.2013 11:12 PM PDT

Artes, Scientia, Veritas

Sapere Aude

"But I do not think we're invincible"

The commodification and objectification of women are, of course, sexist tendencies that exist both in "real life" and on the internet. The question, then, is why sexism is so much more prevalent on the web than it is everywhere else in our world.

I think the answer has to do with anonymity. Much to the chagrin of some men, it is becoming more and more unacceptable to openly degrading, derogatory, objectifying, or belittling towards women. Some sexists have responded to this by changing their demeanor while leaving their sexist mindsets intact, suppressed like a giant misogynistic id masked, unconvincingly, as socially permissible behavior. While these people still often act in a sexist manner, they usually do so in the more subtle ways that have come to define modern misogyny.

Because of its anonymity, however, the internet has become place these people can let their repressed misogyny out without serious fear of social retribution. In places like The Flood that display serious hivemind complices, sexism becomes widely accepted and embraced, meaning that their is close to zero repression of the sexist tendencies that would otherwise be hidden. This understandably turns off female interest, meaning that their is less and less dissent, and the process simply amplifies itself over and over.

So, in short, I believe this phenomenon exists because the anonymity of the internet allows sexists to be open with their misogyny without the fear of social scrutiny that might otherwise deter them.

  • 01.01.2013 11:13 PM PDT


Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: Xplode441
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Ah, so you admit that you're sexist and part of the problem, and resent the fact that you may be asked to be part of the solution.
I'm sexist when it's humorous to be so. And saying "Don't post sexist jokes" isn't a -blam!- solution. I've said this multiple times, but it doesn't seem to be getting through your head.
As a guy, you have the liberty of only not being sexist when it suits you.

As a woman, I'm affected by it all the time.

Easy for you to dismiss something as unimportant when it doesn't affect you, isn't it?


Yeah guys are subject to sexism too. You are being ignorant and blind if you think women are the only ones affected by it. Here's some examples.

Women on the view laugh about how a mans junk was cut off by his crazy wife.
Commercials portray men as helpless oafs who need their wives to boss them around.
Women typically get less prison sentence for the same crime as men.
Women get more in divorce settlements, and usually get more in terms of child custody.
Women get birth control rights and decisions, men don't.
Physical violence in a household against a man is considered comical, against a woman it's tragic.

I could continue on but you see the point I'm making. It's people like you that hold us back as humans and further devide the genders. Both men and women face issues but you seem to only care about those that affect you and your gender.

  • 01.01.2013 11:13 PM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Posted by: jaythenerdkid
This thread, for starters.

And if you seriously think sexism against men is on the same level as misogyny, or has nearly as many far-reaching implications...

*sigh*

Google "men's rights activism" some time and check out the kind of company you're in.
Where are the overwhelming responses of "women are good for nothing but babies and cooking"? I'm not really seeing them in this thread. The things that I do see are people posting women jokes in order to be humorous or to get a response. That hardly shows that the Flood has a problem with sexists.

Also, men's rights activists do indeed tackle social problems that affect men. Remember the airlines that made men move seats because it was against their policy to let men sit next to unattended children?

  • 01.01.2013 11:14 PM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: Baph117

Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Google "men's rights activism" some time and check out the kind of company you're in.
RESPOND TO ME

And the MRM isn't all bad. They've got some valuable insights that the aren't often made on the other side of the ideological aisle.
I didn't see anything to respond to, sorry!

Also, I should make it clear that I do believe courts shouldn't be biased in favour of mothers in family law disputes and that men's health is important. BUT - and here's the big "but" - both of those things are indirect results of negative discrimination against women that happens to backfire against men. In the case of family court, women are seen as more nurturing than men (because REAL MEN don't have feelings like those weak-willed women, amirite?), so courts give the kids to women. This is unfair, because there are plenty of bad mothers and plenty of very emotionally mature men, but that's why it happens - because women are meant to be more nurturing, and why would any man want to be like a woman?

In the case of men's health, it's often overlooked because men are meant to be stoics who don't cry over little things (again, unlike those silly women, who'll go crying to a doctor every time they stub their toe on the sofa while vacuuming, amirite??????), so they're actively encouraged by society not to see a doctor unless things are really, really serious. (There's also a certain glamour attached to men doing risky things that leads to them being injured more often, which is a problem, and a stubborn insistence that real men don't get mentally ill, which has led to men in the 18-35 age bracket having higher suicide rates than anyone else. Again, if men weren't expected to repudiate any kind of behaviour seen as feminine, this would be far less of an issue!)

  • 01.01.2013 11:15 PM PDT

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: Doctor Jensen
I've challenged my beliefs. What is the book about?


I find that this is usually untrue. If religious people honestly, diligently and intelligently challenged their beliefs, there would be no religious people.


Posted by: NewRadical12
The commodification and objectification of women are, of course, sexist tendencies that exist both in "real life" and on the internet. The question, then, is why sexism is so much more prevalent on the web than it is everywhere else in our world.

I think the answer has to do with anonymity. Much to the chagrin of some men, it is becoming more and more unacceptable to openly degrading, derogatory, objectifying, or belittling towards women. Some sexists have responded to this by changing their demeanor while leaving their sexist mindsets intact, suppressed like a giant misogynistic id masked, unconvincingly, as socially permissible behavior. While these people still often act in a sexist manner, they usually do so in the more subtle ways that have come to define modern misogyny.

Because of its anonymity, however, the internet has become place these people can let their repressed misogyny out without serious fear of social retribution. In places like The Flood that display serious hivemind complices, sexism becomes widely accepted and embraced, meaning that their is close to zero repression of the sexist tendencies that would otherwise be hidden. This understandably turns off female interest, meaning that their is less and less dissent, and the process simply amplifies itself over and over.

So, in short, I believe this phenomenon exists because the anonymity of the internet allows sexists to be open with their misogyny without the fear of social scrutiny that might otherwise deter them.
ew you like girls

  • 01.01.2013 11:17 PM PDT