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This topic has moved here: Subject: A huge problem with this community
  • Subject: A huge problem with this community
Subject: A huge problem with this community
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

Before I begin, let me clarify something. This thread is mostly in reference to threads on the Flood, because the Septagon is saturated with employees, moderators, and people dedicated to pleasing the previous two groups, and because the game forums have effectively died.

Bungie.net has a culture problem. A culture problem that I believe is detrimental to the growth and success of the website.

Hostility is not really something I see talked about much here so I figured this was worth a thread. The Flood's not a pleasant place, and it never really has been. In fact, it got so bad that the Big Man had to step in and do this.

It kind of feels like the entire community, moderators and members both, have forgotten that being a jerk is a bad thing. Anyone who posts often on the Flood can see this. People are constantly tossing around insults, and pretty nasty ones at that. For some reason, no one seems to care anymore - maybe because we're dark, or maybe because we've just all gotten lazy or grown out of being bothered by such things.

Just look through a few
pages from a couple of threads made since yesterday.

Let me stop here and say that I am not trying to be negative and judgmental towards the moderation team. I know that holding that position is difficult from experience elsewhere, I know how exhausting and bothersome the job is. I'm aware that moderators can't be everywhere at all times to ban people who are hurling nasty insults at someone.

This is just as much a call to members. Every one of us are given a report button so we can help keep the forums clean, but who really uses it unless they're upset over something an OP said? How often do you see a post reported aside from OPs and harmful links?

The sheer nastiness that can be seen just by scanning over any somewhat long thread is astounding. Maybe moderators don't ban people within threads because they don't see them. Maybe the same is true for people not reporting a post. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a moderator lock an exceptionally long thread, that everyone knows is nothing but a cluster-blam!- of angry people spewing hate at each other, and not bother to even read the second post. Like I said, I understand when you just don't see it, but why in the hell are people in these huge threads not reporting these types of posts?

I know that people will be jerks on the internet, and I'm not expecting it to change. But can we please do something to get rid of this toxicity before new people start pouring in? People have strong opinions on things, and they're certainly entitled to them, but why do you have to insult someone by saying you can't tell if she's a boy or a girl? Why do you have to say nasty things to non-heteros, or females, or people who don't like the same private group as you do? Why is any of this tolerated at all? Allowing this stuff to go on is just running people away from the site, because a civilized person has no reason to spend their time being involved in a community that harbors these types of people.

I know what the responses will be to this post. People will tell me how I'm being too sensitive and how it's just the way the internet is. People will tell me I'm one of the jerks. And look, I know I overstep the line sometimes when I'm joking. None of us are perfect, but I don't think asking members to attempt to be decent (and mods to enforce decency when needed) is too much to ask.

You can ignore this problem all you want, but I know from talking to others that I'm not the only person who sees this. It's a real problem that needs to be fixed.

  • 01.01.2013 9:10 PM PDT

Owning Noobs Since 05

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror like his passengers."

Jim Harkins

You talk against hostility but your OP is hostile. Interesting.....

  • 01.01.2013 9:14 PM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: Verachi
You talk against hostility but your OP is hostile. Interesting.....
How? Criticism isn't necessarily hostility.

  • 01.01.2013 9:17 PM PDT

Thesaurus.com


Posted by: Verachi
You talk against hostility but your OP is hostile. Interesting.....
It isn't?

  • 01.01.2013 9:18 PM PDT

"Moooooooo"
-Ghost cow

A large number of offensive remarks are contributed by the trolls intending to provoke a reaction. They'll always be around since they can keep making alts so the Flood will probably always be a cesspit.

As for the Community, I don't think anyone is really a jerk unless someone says something really dumb. In that case he'll probably receive sarcastic replies.

New members will probably be sticking to the Destiny forum, with a few coming to the Community. The Flood will always be the same, but the Community will have new members who will eventually integrate and talk like the older members.

So I don't think it's such a big problem.

  • 01.01.2013 9:18 PM PDT

OMG
Master Chief w/o his Helmet!


Stosh <3's me vicariously... at least someone does...

Let me say this tenderly:

There's no way, whatsoever, to change this.

It isn't a problem.

And if I could give you some advice, it would be that, if you want a peaceful forum geared towards gentle discussion, the forums for a series of first person shooters popular with teenagers probably isn't the place to look.

  • 01.01.2013 9:18 PM PDT


Posted by: Verachi
You talk against hostility but your OP is hostile. Interesting.....


I fail to see how this could be taken as hostile, in my point of view it seemed like the OP was more disappointed with many members then being hostile to them.

Back on topic, I do agree things are pretty hostile on the forums. I think this has always been the case though, it could be worse, I stopped bothering to go on the mains a long time ago because I could not stand it anymore, but it seems to be that the hostility here will always be here.

  • 01.01.2013 9:20 PM PDT

"I'm uncomfortable."
-True Underdog
Young Grasshopper of The Year: ChorrizoTapatio 2012

A little bit of sausage, a little bit of hot sauce, a whole lot of awesome. Have a question? Ask me!
Chapter

I agree 100%, Harlow. I'm with you that being a jerk is bad thing and people need to make an effort to report jerks in the main forums. Nice thread.

  • 01.01.2013 9:21 PM PDT

Man of God. Fan of Bungie. Eater of many Jr. Bacon cheeseburgers.

I agree. I try to do what I can but not being a Ninja makes it difficult. I also hardly bother with the flood. However, I do report any monkey business I see here in the community within reason. People need to relax on here. We all have a part on here whether we are ninjas or not. Part of that includes being reasonable and respectful even during conflict and disagreements.

  • 01.01.2013 9:21 PM PDT

Halo3Planet, the place for all things Halo 3..

Need help finding skulls, make sure to go here.

I realized recently that I'd only ever really reported the first posts in threads, and I've tried to change that. It's pretty hard to continually do something that you don't see direct feedback from, but I believe this is a problem that's being addressed.

  • 01.01.2013 9:23 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member


Posted by: Silentone2
Let me say this tenderly:

There's no way, whatsoever, to change this.

It isn't a problem.

And if I could give you some advice, it would be that, if you want a peaceful forum geared towards gentle discussion, the forums for a series of first person shooters popular with teenagers probably isn't the place to look.



I don't believe it's unchangeable. I also don't believe that because there are problems that are difficult to deal with, they should be ignored "just because that's the way it is".

  • 01.01.2013 9:23 PM PDT

Man of God. Fan of Bungie. Eater of many Jr. Bacon cheeseburgers.


Posted by: R3ACTlON

Posted by: Verachi
You talk against hostility but your OP is hostile. Interesting.....
It isn't?


Constructive criticism. A call to duty, if you will. Pointing out things in a calm manner is not hostile, really.

  • 01.01.2013 9:25 PM PDT

Owning Noobs Since 05

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror like his passengers."

Jim Harkins

You can't see the hostility? You must be under a spell.

Why am I not surprised you all have one thing in common....
Posted by: easytomake
Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: R3ACTlON

  • 01.01.2013 9:25 PM PDT

OMG
Master Chief w/o his Helmet!


Stosh <3's me vicariously... at least someone does...


Posted by: Harlow

Posted by: Silentone2
Let me say this tenderly:

There's no way, whatsoever, to change this.

It isn't a problem.

And if I could give you some advice, it would be that, if you want a peaceful forum geared towards gentle discussion, the forums for a series of first person shooters popular with teenagers probably isn't the place to look.



I don't believe it's unchangeable. I also don't believe that because there are problems that are difficult to deal with, they should be ignored "just because that's the way it is".

You're talking about changing the behavior of a massive group of people, one which almost no authoritative power is held over (even thought that's the worst way to influence the type of behavior you want).

People act the way they act because people act the way the act. You aren't any better or worse than them for acting differently (though you're really not acting any different than them).

  • 01.01.2013 9:26 PM PDT

Man of God. Fan of Bungie. Eater of many Jr. Bacon cheeseburgers.


Posted by: Harlow

Posted by: Silentone2
Let me say this tenderly:

There's no way, whatsoever, to change this.

It isn't a problem.

And if I could give you some advice, it would be that, if you want a peaceful forum geared towards gentle discussion, the forums for a series of first person shooters popular with teenagers probably isn't the place to look.



I don't believe it's unchangeable. I also don't believe that because there are problems that are difficult to deal with, they should be ignored "just because that's the way it is".


Agreeable.

Let's stay calm here fella's. We can discuss this like gentlemen.

  • 01.01.2013 9:27 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member


Posted by: Verachi
You can't see the hostility? You must be under a spell.

Why am I not surprised you all have one thing in common....
Posted by: easytomake
Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: R3ACTlON


This is a perfect example of what I just talked about. I didn't say anything nasty to you or anyone, friend. Links in the OP were even to threads that I didn't even post in to avoid personal bias. Why do you have to act this way?

  • 01.01.2013 9:28 PM PDT

Wow this is serious business isn't it.

I'm sure you'll write me off as one of the people you mentioned in your OP, but I really don't see a problem. This website isn't becoming a breeding grounds for the scum of the earth or anything. We're all just a bunch of nerds talking about stuff. The moderators and staff do a great job keeping this place safe, friendly, and open.

What you're getting at is a societal problem, not an issue solely on this website. People are always going to take advantage of their anonymity on the Internet and use it to talk about their fringe opinions. It's easier and consequence free that way. Obviously some of those people are always going to come here, and the site is set up in such a way as to deter most of it.

Yep

  • 01.01.2013 9:31 PM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: roman arrow12
I realized recently that I'd only ever really reported the first posts in threads, and I've tried to change that. It's pretty hard to continually do something that you don't see direct feedback from, but I believe this is a problem that's being addressed.
Same here. I used to feel like it was just too much work reporting offensive posts in an otherwise fine thread, but since I've seen people around me starting to do so, I've started to do it as well. No reason to let that stuff slide just because it's not right on the front page. It's offensive and rule-breaking no matter where it is.

  • 01.01.2013 9:31 PM PDT

Owning Noobs Since 05

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror like his passengers."

Jim Harkins

Posted by: Harlow
This is a perfect example of what I just talked about. I didn't say anything nasty to you or anyone, friend.

Posted by: Harlow
Before I begin, let me clarify something. This thread is mostly in reference to threads on the Flood, because the Septagon is saturated with employees, moderators, and people dedicated to pleasing the previous two groups, and because the game forums have effectively died.

Posted by: Harlow
This is a perfect example of what I just talked about.

Posted by: Harlow
and people dedicated to pleasing the previous two groups,

How is this not offensive? You indirectly calling the Septagon a bunch of suck ups. That statement is not only false but it's rude and hostile.

How about you answer your own question.
Posted by: Harlow
Why do you have to act this way?

Posted by: Harlow
I didn't say anything nasty to you or anyone, friend.

Neither did I friend.

[Edited on 01.01.2013 10:02 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 9:36 PM PDT

That was one of the most insanely long rants I have ever seen, after reading this I only have but one question to ask you, do you even lift?

  • 01.01.2013 9:37 PM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

I hate jerks as much as the next guy and deal with them when I see them. I imagine the other ninjas do this as well.

We rely on the report button when we're not here.

The report button is only ever used when a very obvious rule is being broken (adult links, all caps, religion/politics) otherwise we hardly see anything in there.

  • 01.01.2013 9:37 PM PDT

Cammalamm is the best.

External Links-
>My Photobucket page
>My Twitter account

I report bad post and link them to mods on occasion.

People will always be "jerks".. A quarter of the threads on the flood are from alts trying to bait people into a flame war. People enjoy this.


[Edited on 01.01.2013 11:06 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 9:37 PM PDT


Posted by: SharkTooth__

Posted by: Harlow

Posted by: Silentone2
Let me say this tenderly:

There's no way, whatsoever, to change this.

It isn't a problem.

And if I could give you some advice, it would be that, if you want a peaceful forum geared towards gentle discussion, the forums for a series of first person shooters popular with teenagers probably isn't the place to look.



I don't believe it's unchangeable. I also don't believe that because there are problems that are difficult to deal with, they should be ignored "just because that's the way it is".


Agreeable.

Let's stay calm here fella's. We can discuss this like gentlemen.


But wouldn't the discussion be missing a certain something if we did not have people completely missing the point of the OP? The irony alone would be worth it.

  • 01.01.2013 9:39 PM PDT


Posted by: zoobkillerninja
I report bad post and link them to mods on occasion.

People will always be "jerks".. A quarter of the threads on the flood are from alts trying to bait people into a flame war. People enjoy this.

I do agree people could report more.


Some members don't even try to start a flame war, usually people flame the OP and when the OP responds back with flaming he gets banned for being a "jerk"

  • 01.01.2013 9:41 PM PDT

Half Man.
Half Horse.
Half Machine.
All "Jerk Who's Really Bad at Math."

PS
No, I do not want to join your clan/group.

Posted by: Harlow
You can ignore this problem all you want, but I know from talking to others that I'm not the only person who sees this. It's a real problem that needs to be fixed.
I don't think it's a problem that can be fixed. Report the jerks, and maybe they do get banned, but all they will do is make an alt account and come back for more. There's nothing we can do to "fix" or stop this behavior short of shutting down the Flood, and I have serious doubts even that would work; if anything, they'd probably start to infest the other forums with their hate and immaturity and force Achronos and the ninjas to crack down on everybody.

You're not wrong in wanting it to change, but at present I don't think there's anything that can be done short of banning entire IPs instead of just the account in question (not sure how often that's done, if ever).

My suggestion to you is to stay away from the Flood if it bothers you that much; I've found that my time on Bnet is much more enjoyable if I avoid that particular forum.

  • 01.01.2013 9:44 PM PDT