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  • Subject: A huge problem with this community
Subject: A huge problem with this community

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten

I can think of many private groups that are just as guilty of this problem but it is also an issue that does not effect everyone, just instigators who never get in trouble for it or are very careful they are subtle in trolling/degrading people enough the ninjas don't catch on.

[Edited on 01.02.2013 8:26 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 8:24 AM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

great post I agree, I admit I haven't been very nice in the past neither.

Something must be done.

Posted by: Harlow
Before I begin, let me clarify something. This thread is mostly in reference to threads on the Flood, because the Septagon is saturated with employees, moderators, and people dedicated to pleasing the previous two groups, and because the game forums have effectively died.

Bungie.net has a culture problem. A culture problem that I believe is detrimental to the growth and success of the website.

Hostility is not really something I see talked about much here so I figured this was worth a thread. The Flood's not a pleasant place, and it never really has been. In fact, it got so bad that the Big Man had to step in and do this.

It kind of feels like the entire community, moderators and members both, have forgotten that being a jerk is a bad thing. Anyone who posts often on the Flood can see this. People are constantly tossing around insults, and pretty nasty ones at that. For some reason, no one seems to care anymore - maybe because we're dark, or maybe because we've just all gotten lazy or grown out of being bothered by such things.

Just look through a few
pages from a couple of threads made since yesterday.

Let me stop here and say that I am not trying to be negative and judgmental towards the moderation team. I know that holding that position is difficult from experience elsewhere, I know how exhausting and bothersome the job is. I'm aware that moderators can't be everywhere at all times to ban people who are hurling nasty insults at someone.

This is just as much a call to members. Every one of us are given a report button so we can help keep the forums clean, but who really uses it unless they're upset over something an OP said? How often do you see a post reported aside from OPs and harmful links?

The sheer nastiness that can be seen just by scanning over any somewhat long thread is astounding. Maybe moderators don't ban people within threads because they don't see them. Maybe the same is true for people not reporting a post. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a moderator lock an exceptionally long thread, that everyone knows is nothing but a cluster-blam!- of angry people spewing hate at each other, and not bother to even read the second post. Like I said, I understand when you just don't see it, but why in the hell are people in these huge threads not reporting these types of posts?

I know that people will be jerks on the internet, and I'm not expecting it to change. But can we please do something to get rid of this toxicity before new people start pouring in? People have strong opinions on things, and they're certainly entitled to them, but why do you have to insult someone by saying you can't tell if she's a boy or a girl? Why do you have to say nasty things to non-heteros, or females, or people who don't like the same private group as you do? Why is any of this tolerated at all? Allowing this stuff to go on is just running people away from the site, because a civilized person has no reason to spend their time being involved in a community that harbors these types of people.

I know what the responses will be to this post. People will tell me how I'm being too sensitive and how it's just the way the internet is. People will tell me I'm one of the jerks. And look, I know I overstep the line sometimes when I'm joking. None of us are perfect, but I don't think asking members to attempt to be decent (and mods to enforce decency when needed) is too much to ask.

You can ignore this problem all you want, but I know from talking to others that I'm not the only person who sees this. It's a real problem that needs to be fixed.

  • 01.02.2013 8:28 AM PDT

Posted by: DAS B00T x2
It's okay, Cobra. I've m­asturbated to you too.

I care.

  • 01.02.2013 8:31 AM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: BestSpartan117
great post I agree, I admit I haven't been very nice in the past neither.

Something must be done.


All you need to do is make sure you don't bring drama into threads or try to start something.

If you got a problem with someone, go through the mods or PMs.

It really is not hard as long as people make some effort to control their irrational tendencies.

  • 01.02.2013 8:31 AM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.


Posted by: spartain ken 15
I can think of many private groups that are just as guilty of this problem but it is also an issue that does not effect everyone, just instigators who never get in trouble for it or are very careful they are subtle in trolling/degrading people enough the ninjas don't catch on.

Or, perhaps we are trying to let members "catch on for themselves" and hope that they will "do the right thing".

Ken, you have to admit that you are VERY quick to spot and respond to anything that you consider a "personal attack against me". Just for a moment, imagine what it would be like if you were to lower your "I've been attacked" threshold and those people who were "being so subtle the mods don't notice" don't get a kneejerk response from you, because you accept the possibility that they aren't baiting you.

If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly?

The result is "no harm, no foul, life goes on". And we all benefit.

  • 01.02.2013 8:33 AM PDT

The WorkPLace

Posted by: FALSE R3ALITYx
And Cobravert is absolutely correct.

Posted by: Der Todesengel
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and Cobra."
- Der

Posted by: BestSpartan117
great post I agree, I admit I haven't been very nice in the past neither.

Something must be done.

Here is what must be done.
1) Stay out of the Flood if you do not wish to see things that will offend you.

2) Report things that you feel are worthy of a moderators attention, or if it is really flagrant, pm the link to a mod.

3) Play nice

  • 01.02.2013 8:36 AM PDT

@spawn031

"So much of what we do is ephemeral and quickly forgotten, even by ourselves, so it's gratifying to have something you have done linger in people's memories." John Williams

Don't even tell me we're going to need to resort to Mr. Paperclip for bungie.next.

Posted by: Harlow
but who really uses it unless they're upset over something an OP said?
I use it. I report more than I post on a daily basis. Do I abuse it? No, I use it when I feel a post has crossed the line according to the rules. Eventually the problem will be taken care of. If I come back and nothing was done, well then it probably wasn't that big of a deal in the first place.

I, along with many others, have watched this argument being passed around for years. Ever since the report feature came out, the ninjas and webteam always emphasized to use it more. It's our tool to help, and it works!

This entire thread is going in circles about the same issue:

- "If a tree falls in the middle of the forest with nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

- "If I report a post and it doesn't get addressed, was it bannable?"

That's arguable. Does a ban really solve spam? You still may feel that something is worth at least a warning, but in the larger picture, no one else may have thought it was offensive. As you said, it's a culture aspect. If we had an ignore feature this would be a different story. But it's not difficult to simply ignore a user and report their post as it exists right now.

  • 01.02.2013 8:36 AM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Recon Number 54

Posted by: spartain ken 15
I can think of many private groups that are just as guilty of this problem but it is also an issue that does not effect everyone, just instigators who never get in trouble for it or are very careful they are subtle in trolling/degrading people enough the ninjas don't catch on.

Or, perhaps we are trying to let members "catch on for themselves" and hope that they will "do the right thing".

Ken, you have to admit that you are VERY quick to spot and respond to anything that you consider a "personal attack against me". Just for a moment, imagine what it would be like if you were to lower your "I've been attacked" threshold and those people who were "being so subtle the mods don't notice" don't get a kneejerk response from you, because you accept the possibility that they aren't baiting you.

If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly?

The result is "no harm, no foul, life goes on". And we all benefit.


If I got a problem with somebody I PM them first about it and if it doesn't stop I PM a mod. I try not to call anyone out on the forums because that just leads to more problems.

But we really don't have much of a problem, I think most of the trouble makers have been rooted out on the mains and we don't see much of it anymore.

  • 01.02.2013 8:40 AM PDT

A cornered fox is more dangerous than a jackal.

And from FOX, two phantoms were born.

Is it wrong that if I see something bad, like a swear word or someone who is obviously using an alt to avoid a ban, I don't usually report them?

I'll report if it's a massive wall of spam or people posting maliciuous things, but is something small like a bypassed filter swear word worth a mod hassling over it?

  • 01.02.2013 8:40 AM PDT
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What bungie.net really needs is some sort of list whereupon people can be arbitrarily placed with no justification, banning their participation and precluding even the very discussion of their existence under pain of being added to the same list one's self.

That'd make this place excellent.

  • 01.02.2013 8:44 AM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54

Posted by: spartain ken 15
I can think of many private groups that are just as guilty of this problem but it is also an issue that does not effect everyone, just instigators who never get in trouble for it or are very careful they are subtle in trolling/degrading people enough the ninjas don't catch on.

Or, perhaps we are trying to let members "catch on for themselves" and hope that they will "do the right thing".

Ken, you have to admit that you are VERY quick to spot and respond to anything that you consider a "personal attack against me". Just for a moment, imagine what it would be like if you were to lower your "I've been attacked" threshold and those people who were "being so subtle the mods don't notice" don't get a kneejerk response from you, because you accept the possibility that they aren't baiting you.

If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly?

The result is "no harm, no foul, life goes on". And we all benefit.

This is completely wrong, you are condoning the backstabbing b*tchiness that is endemic in girls' secondary schools.

This thread is aimed to be deliberately controversial whilst being in the confines of the rules, hopefully flamebaiting others and promoting a group in the process; it should be locked.

  • 01.02.2013 8:45 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

I like how people complain that "This site is getting out of hand!" when it really hasn't changed in years. And I mean years.

Honestly, I'd actually say it's marginally better. Post quality is up, and people are less "forum coppy" than they were, oh, three or four years ago.

[Edited on 01.02.2013 8:48 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 8:48 AM PDT


Posted by: Coxx153
Posted by: Recon Number 54

Posted by: spartain ken 15
I can think of many private groups that are just as guilty of this problem but it is also an issue that does not effect everyone, just instigators who never get in trouble for it or are very careful they are subtle in trolling/degrading people enough the ninjas don't catch on.

Or, perhaps we are trying to let members "catch on for themselves" and hope that they will "do the right thing".

Ken, you have to admit that you are VERY quick to spot and respond to anything that you consider a "personal attack against me". Just for a moment, imagine what it would be like if you were to lower your "I've been attacked" threshold and those people who were "being so subtle the mods don't notice" don't get a kneejerk response from you, because you accept the possibility that they aren't baiting you.

If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly?

The result is "no harm, no foul, life goes on". And we all benefit.

This is completely wrong, you are condoning the backstabbing b*tchiness that is endemic in girls' secondary schools.

This thread is aimed to be deliberately controversial whilst being in the confines of the rules, hopefully flamebaiting others and promoting a group in the process; it should be locked.

Since when has ignoring troll posts and flame bait been wrong? I'm pretty sure he's just advocating "Don't feed the troll, no matter what."

[Edited on 01.02.2013 8:53 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 8:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: IHaveTURRETS JR
Since when has ignoring troll posts and flame bait been wrong? I'm pretty sure he's just advocating "Don't feed the troll."

"If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly?" - I'm pretty sure he's advocating ken to be a subtle dick back to them.

  • 01.02.2013 8:53 AM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: elmicker
What bungie.net really needs is some sort of list whereupon people can be arbitrarily placed with no justification, banning their participation and precluding even the very discussion of their existence under pain of being added to the same list one's self.

That'd make this place excellent.

You do realize that you just caused a "back to the drawing board" moment for those who are working on .Next?

  • 01.02.2013 8:55 AM PDT

Posted by: Silentone2
Let me say this tenderly:

There's no way, whatsoever, to change this.

It isn't a problem.

And if I could give you some advice, it would be that, if you want a peaceful forum geared towards gentle discussion, the forums for a series of first person shooters popular with teenagers probably isn't the place to look.
This could not be stated more truly.

Harlow, you're telling me that an online community (who's numbers reach in the hundred-thousands, possibly millons) would not be hosting innumerable amounts of users that, said respectively of course, "like to have some fun" on an online forum.

I don't view the Flood as a generalized clump of trolls seeking to destroy the organization or purpose of a mature forum for everyone abound. I view them as a group of users who like to share each others thoughts on so many random, obscure topics, that I myself find amusing at most times.

  • 01.02.2013 8:56 AM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.


Posted by: Coxx153
Posted by: IHaveTURRETS JR
Since when has ignoring troll posts and flame bait been wrong? I'm pretty sure he's just advocating "Don't feed the troll."

"If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly?" - I'm pretty sure he's advocating ken to be a subtle dick back to them.

No. I am advocating being sly and not falling for the trap (replying to the subtle bait). If someone is capable of spotting overt and subtle insults and can ignore them both, then the jerk who is baiting has failed in their attempt, no matter how overt or subtle they were.

Fish bite because they only see the bait and not the hook. I wish that we had more members who were wiser than most fish.

  • 01.02.2013 8:57 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: Coxx153
Posted by: IHaveTURRETS JR
Since when has ignoring troll posts and flame bait been wrong? I'm pretty sure he's just advocating "Don't feed the troll."

"If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly?" - I'm pretty sure he's advocating ken to be a subtle dick back to them.


I'd rather someone be a subtle jerk than an unsubtle one, yelling "Hark! Hark! Thou hast seen I have been transgressed upon!" more often than not.

  • 01.02.2013 8:57 AM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Coxx153
Posted by: IHaveTURRETS JR
Since when has ignoring troll posts and flame bait been wrong? I'm pretty sure he's just advocating "Don't feed the troll."

"If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly?" - I'm pretty sure he's advocating ken to be a subtle dick back to them.


I don't want to cause any trouble but I think if mods are noticing that people are flame baiting and it is going to far, they should step in. I don't think it is right to just tell you to ignore it and not even address or deal with the people causing the problem.

  • 01.02.2013 8:57 AM PDT

A cornered fox is more dangerous than a jackal.

And from FOX, two phantoms were born.


Posted by: Recon Number 54


Fish bite because they only see the bait and not the hook. I wish that we had more members who were wiser than most fish.


Can I use this as my sig?

  • 01.02.2013 9:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: spartain ken 15Posted by: Coxx153
Posted by: IHaveTURRETS JR
Since when has ignoring troll posts and flame bait been wrong? I'm pretty sure he's just advocating "Don't feed the troll."

"If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly?" - I'm pretty sure he's advocating ken to be a subtle dick back to them.

I don't want to cause any trouble but I think if mods are noticing that people are flame baiting and it is going to far, they should step in. I don't think it is right to just tell you to ignore it and not even address or deal with the people causing the problem.

I actually agree with ken.

  • 01.02.2013 9:00 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member
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Twitter.
WyIdfyre: 'lol, who the hell would even wear those?'
AuSam: 'lol, who the hell would even have sex with dogs?'

-K-

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: Coxx153
Posted by: IHaveTURRETS JR
Since when has ignoring troll posts and flame bait been wrong? I'm pretty sure he's just advocating "Don't feed the troll."

"If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly?" - I'm pretty sure he's advocating ken to be a subtle dick back to them.


I don't want to cause any trouble but I think if mods are noticing that people are flame baiting and it is going to far, they should step in. I don't think it is right to just tell you to ignore it and not even address or deal with the people causing the problem.
Ken, I think what Recon's getting across is half of what you're saying. Ignoring the people baiting you, or not baiting you is the first step.
If you don't give a response, it can't continue in the thread. Then, when you've managed to hold back a wild mud shot, you can PM a ninja if you feel action is totally necessary, or just press the report button. :)
It keeps you clean, but still solves the problem.

  • 01.02.2013 9:03 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: spartain ken 15
I don't want to cause any trouble but I think if mods are noticing that people are flame baiting and it is going to far, they should step in. I don't think it is right to just tell you to ignore it and not even address or deal with the people causing the problem.


This is a goram video game site! There is absolutely no reason why any fanaticism, from any side of such a petty issue, should require a tyrannical police force style of reaction.

What is the real cause of the problem you are describing here?

  • 01.02.2013 9:03 AM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

I believe that the Bungie Store should offer Bungie-branded "asbestos underoos".

They'd make at least a thousand dollars.

  • 01.02.2013 9:07 AM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Kalriq
Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: Coxx153
Posted by: IHaveTURRETS JR
Since when has ignoring troll posts and flame bait been wrong? I'm pretty sure he's just advocating "Don't feed the troll."

"If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly?" - I'm pretty sure he's advocating ken to be a subtle dick back to them.


I don't want to cause any trouble but I think if mods are noticing that people are flame baiting and it is going to far, they should step in. I don't think it is right to just tell you to ignore it and not even address or deal with the people causing the problem.
Ken, I think what Recon's getting across is half of what you're saying. Ignoring the people baiting you, or not baiting you is the first step.
If you don't give a response, it can't continue in the thread. Then, when you've managed to hold back a wild mud shot, you can PM a ninja if you feel action is totally necessary, or just press the report button. :)
It keeps you clean, but still solves the problem.


Yeah I understand, I ignore people if it is an issue, I don't have a problem.

  • 01.02.2013 9:07 AM PDT