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  • Subject: A huge problem with this community
Subject: A huge problem with this community

"No, Hoobla. No."
~DeeJ

Does OP know that this is the internet?

  • 01.02.2013 3:14 PM PDT

If only there was someone as egotistical and funny as my clone.


oh wait.

That's fine to refute that, but this is the internet. This is the flood, they can not be changed.



Posted by: Bricypoo
Actually that is untrue, there are many occurrences of murders regreting their previous actions and changing their ways. I remember when a good friend of mine told me about his friend who killed his grandfather and was sentenced to life in prison. I would have said the samething, but the murder had counseling. (From someone I know) Who admitted that he regretted his actions and everyday he could take them back. But he didn't argue that he should be realized he stated he deserved what he got. But he would do is best to be a light in prison.

This long story just to explain that even a murder can change his ways, then it is quite possible for a floodian troll to change his ways. You shouldn't not try something just because it is hard or because it seems impossible. Sometimes you have to try to change things for the better even if it seems to me a waste of time.

Posted by: the dark freckle
You can't change the actions of a murderer (Unless by death.)

  • 01.02.2013 3:26 PM PDT

ooga booga boooh


Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: Recon Number 54
For those who would ask us to "clean up based on not just HOW someone posts, but what they post", here's an example.

Personally, I have a low threshold and tolerance (I am almost regretting this before I type it) for anti-semitism, holocaust denial and (what I see as) historical apologism/revisionism.

Does that mean that I should (or would) permaban anyone who makes a "Hitler wasn't all bad" thread or uses terms like "Zionism" as if it explains everything? I could. And I would be able to explain/justify my actions, probably even get them to comply with the letter of the ToU and CoC.
Um...yes?

Anti-semitism is disgusting and vile, and incredibly hurtful to the people at whom it's directed. How is that not rule-breaking?

It has nothing to do with personal triggers - that's a very nasty form of bigotry and there's no reason why it should be allowed in any forum claiming to promote a healthy and welcoming community.

Same for any other kind of racism. Same for sexism. Same for transphobia. Same for people who pick on the disabled. It's not a difference of opinion, it's bigotry.

And as far as I know, that's against the rules.


What some call anti-Semitic, some would just call their person views, whether or not you like it. Just because one's personal views do not coincide with yours does not mean they are wrong. And, thankfully, this forum is not run based on being against the higher ups popular opinions.

  • 01.02.2013 3:30 PM PDT


Posted by: im am b0red
Does OP know that this is the internet?
i keep thinking this. This happens everywhere, in every community, in real life or on the Internet.

  • 01.02.2013 3:32 PM PDT


Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: Recon Number 54
For those who would ask us to "clean up based on not just HOW someone posts, but what they post", here's an example.

Personally, I have a low threshold and tolerance (I am almost regretting this before I type it) for anti-semitism, holocaust denial and (what I see as) historical apologism/revisionism.

Does that mean that I should (or would) permaban anyone who makes a "Hitler wasn't all bad" thread or uses terms like "Zionism" as if it explains everything? I could. And I would be able to explain/justify my actions, probably even get them to comply with the letter of the ToU and CoC.
Um...yes?

Anti-semitism is disgusting and vile, and incredibly hurtful to the people at whom it's directed. How is that not rule-breaking?

It has nothing to do with personal triggers - that's a very nasty form of bigotry and there's no reason why it should be allowed in any forum claiming to promote a healthy and welcoming community.

Same for any other kind of racism. Same for sexism. Same for transphobia. Same for people who pick on the disabled. It's not a difference of opinion, it's bigotry.

And as far as I know, that's against the rules.


The ambiguity of hatred towards antisemitism to curiosity or someone bringing evidence suggest something different to what we believe happened during that period is very large. Someone may honestly just want to play devil's advocate and make us actually think as opposed to saying what we've heard. If you blindly seek to destroy posts riddled with antisemitism, you'll destroys everything else in its way that resembles antisemitism. This goes for anything else: racism, sexism, or transphobia. If it's blatantly antisemitic in the form of violent videos or pictures, then that's a clear signal the person means harm, but you can't, nor shouldn't censor taboo-y topics for the sake of correctness if their only mean is to discuss it.

  • 01.02.2013 3:33 PM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: Biack Rose66

The ambiguity of hatred towards antisemitism to curiosity or someone bringing evidence suggest something different to what we believe happened during that period is very large. Someone may honestly just want to play devil's advocate and make us actually think as opposed to saying what we've heard. If you blindly seek to destroy posts riddled with antisemitism, you'll destroys everything else in its way that resembles antisemitism. This goes for anything else: racism, sexism, or transphobia. If it's blatantly antisemitic in the form of violent videos or pictures, then that's a clear signal the person means harm, but you can't, nor shouldn't censor taboo-y topics for the sake of correctness if their only mean is to discuss it.
But the mains censor topics for the good of the community all the time. It's not like people are banned from discussing politics or religion because those topics are offensive - it's because discussing them often leads to the kind of hatefulness that's against the rules.

I don't think it's possible for a forum such as this one to discuss whether or not Hitler was right (for example), without it leading to the same kind of hatefulness or poor attempts at trolling. Therefore, for the same reason that politics and religion aren't acceptable discussion topics, that one shouldn't be either.

That's going solely by logic that is already employed by moderators making decisions about what to allow and disallow.

  • 01.02.2013 3:37 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: Recon Number 54
For those who would ask us to "clean up based on not just HOW someone posts, but what they post", here's an example.

Personally, I have a low threshold and tolerance (I am almost regretting this before I type it) for anti-semitism, holocaust denial and (what I see as) historical apologism/revisionism.

Does that mean that I should (or would) permaban anyone who makes a "Hitler wasn't all bad" thread or uses terms like "Zionism" as if it explains everything? I could. And I would be able to explain/justify my actions, probably even get them to comply with the letter of the ToU and CoC.
Um...yes?

Anti-semitism is disgusting and vile, and incredibly hurtful to the people at whom it's directed. How is that not rule-breaking?

It has nothing to do with personal triggers - that's a very nasty form of bigotry and there's no reason why it should be allowed in any forum claiming to promote a healthy and welcoming community.

Same for any other kind of racism. Same for sexism. Same for transphobia. Same for people who pick on the disabled. It's not a difference of opinion, it's bigotry.

And as far as I know, that's against the rules.
1. Anti-Semitism is not racism. Just thought I'd get that out of the way.

2. Someone can make a thread arguing that Hitler was not an Anti-Semite and that he did all that he did in relation to those 6 million Jews because of political necessity or some -blam!- like that. It is not a likely situation. It is not the correct interpretation of history. But it is not impossible to make a "Hitler did nothing wrong" thread without being anti-semetic.

  • 01.02.2013 3:40 PM PDT
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GrownPrism is NOT my gt. Happened when signing into my xbox live account. My real gt is here:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Default.aspx?player=SYNTHES lS&sg=0


Posted by: Elite Mouse
Harlow is almost as good at disguising threads as Jay.

Almost.

The problem is we are meant to believe that you give a damn at all about what happens in the mains, which you of course don't.

This is just about you not liking the way you are treated outside of your castle, and nothing more.

dat ego

  • 01.02.2013 3:41 PM PDT

How about that, proof of Godwin's Law.

  • 01.02.2013 3:42 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: DarkBen64
How about that, proof of Godwin's Law.
It's not proof of Godwin's Law. Proof of Godwin's Law would require Hitler to come up in every thread on the site, and increasingly more often in larger threads. This is not the case.

  • 01.02.2013 3:44 PM PDT


Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: Biack Rose66

The ambiguity of hatred towards antisemitism to curiosity or someone bringing evidence suggest something different to what we believe happened during that period is very large. Someone may honestly just want to play devil's advocate and make us actually think as opposed to saying what we've heard. If you blindly seek to destroy posts riddled with antisemitism, you'll destroys everything else in its way that resembles antisemitism. This goes for anything else: racism, sexism, or transphobia. If it's blatantly antisemitic in the form of violent videos or pictures, then that's a clear signal the person means harm, but you can't, nor shouldn't censor taboo-y topics for the sake of correctness if their only mean is to discuss it.
But the mains censor topics for the good of the community all the time. It's not like people are banned from discussing politics or religion because those topics are offensive - it's because discussing them often leads to the kind of hatefulness that's against the rules.

I don't think it's possible for a forum such as this one to discuss whether or not Hitler was right (for example), without it leading to the same kind of hatefulness or poor attempts at trolling. Therefore, for the same reason that politics and religion aren't acceptable discussion topics, that one shouldn't be either.

That's going solely by logic that is already employed by moderators making decisions about what to allow and disallow.


I think your example is good, and would result in an almost immediate ban. But, that is more low level trolling. I'm talking about discussions that would lie in between. Something like "would the cause of jewish-born communist leaders in European nations give Hitler more leverage to spread propaganda?" I tried to word it in a neutral way, but along these lines, a thread like that would have chance to thrive by its OP. There is a distinct difference between promoting the label of a healthy and welcoming community to doing something for the good of the community- something that HAS to be done.

We're talking about the extremes though, basically I think popular opinion shouldn't dictate who is right and who is wrong, especially if someone is really wanting to create a healthy discussion.

  • 01.02.2013 3:45 PM PDT


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: DarkBen64
How about that, proof of Godwin's Law.
It's not proof of Godwin's Law. Proof of Godwin's Law would require Hitler to come up in every thread on the site, and increasingly more often in larger threads. This is not the case.
godwin's law states that the probability that hitler is brought up approaches 1 as a discussion grows longer. Since it never actually reaches 1 and half of the topics on Bnet aren't even discussion worthy the fact that were here discussing Hitler in an unrelated topic now is proof enough.

  • 01.02.2013 3:50 PM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: Biack Rose66

I think your example is good, and would result in an almost immediate ban. But, that is more low level trolling. I'm talking about discussions that would lie in between. Something like "would the cause of jewish-born communist leaders in European nations give Hitler more leverage to spread propaganda?" I tried to word it in a neutral way, but along these lines, a thread like that would have chance to thrive by its OP. There is a distinct difference between promoting the label of a healthy and welcoming community to doing something for the good of the community- something that HAS to be done.

We're talking about the extremes though, basically I think popular opinion shouldn't dictate who is right and who is wrong, especially if someone is really wanting to create a healthy discussion.
Take a look at this thread. It hasn't gotten this long because everyone wanted to talk about the OP's points in a reasonable and well-mannered fashion.

Do you honestly think people here would be capable of having that kind of discussion without it being dragged down to this level? I don't - and the moderators generally seem to agree, because if they didn't, they'd allow political and religious discussions that had the potential to turn out well, and they generally don't.

And yet, for some reason, that same standard isn't applied to discussions of gender, race and the like despite the fact that the same old trolls love to come out of the woodwork to derail such discussions.

Here are the options:

1) Allow the discussions to continue, but crack down on people who attempt to derail them or use them as springboards for poor trolling. I believe that's what OP is trying to advocate.

2) Don't allow the discussions to continue, because the mains are incapable of hosting them without them turning to crap.

I personally believe that solution #1 is the better one - but it requires an acknowledgement that there is a problem (i.e. that people like to derail and troll in these kinds of discussions, and more needs to be done about stopping them so that the quality of discussions and the community as a whole can increase). For some reason, several people ITT seem resistant to the idea of acknowledging that this kind of behaviour goes on at all - and ironically, they've chosen to do so in a way that only reaffirms OP's point.

I do believe that the community can be improved, because I have seen other communities improved - and because I have seen people improving here, given the right kind of encouragement. But in order to improve, one must first acknowledge that there's room for improvement. People seem oddly resistant to that.

  • 01.02.2013 3:52 PM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: DarkBen64

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: DarkBen64
How about that, proof of Godwin's Law.
It's not proof of Godwin's Law. Proof of Godwin's Law would require Hitler to come up in every thread on the site, and increasingly more often in larger threads. This is not the case.
godwin's law states that the probability that hitler is brought up approaches 1 as a discussion grows longer. Since it never actually reaches 1 and half of the topics on Bnet aren't even discussion worthy the fact that were here discussing Hitler in an unrelated topic now is proof enough.
Godwin's Law is that as a discussion continues, the probability of someone being compared to Hitler approaches 1.

Nobody's calling anyone else Hitler, so it hasn't yet been invoked.

  • 01.02.2013 3:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
If one is aware that they have a persona (famous or infamous), or are known to others, then complain that "I am recognized and treated differently (differently than I desire for certain) when I go out among the common folk" I am hearing a little too much "woe is me, why is my fame/infamy causing such a disruption? Boo hoo hooo. Save me Sir Knight from those who treat me as they choose and not as I would have them"


What part of my post did I claim to be one of the only ones being a subject of this? Hell, I barely post on the mains already for this exact reason. You're trying to invalidate my opinion because of my username, and that isn't fair. Everything I talked about in the OP, each thread I linked, and each example I gave, were things that had nothing to do with me or anyone related to me at all.

And when I look around, see mud (and poo) being slung, I don't see anyone cloaked in white, rising above the mayhem and refusing to participate. Roll in the dirt with dogs, and the fleas are inevitable.

I said in the OP that everyone is guilty of it sometimes. I said that I go too far with my joking sometimes. But there is a huge difference in me joking around with a friend of mine and someone telling someone else that he can't tell what gender she is. That's just sheer nastiness and whether it's directed at me or someone I don't care about, it makes me not want to bother coming around.

IMO, this is more PGD (Private Group Drama) that is spilling into the mains. I, for one, am way too old for this crap.

Please show me in my post where I mentioned any private groups. Once again, you're being completely unfair simply because of my username. This has less than nothing to do with my private group and was very obviously an observation of the Flood, an observation, by the way, that a ton of people in this thread who aren't involved in my private group share.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: elmicker
What bungie.net really needs is some sort of list whereupon people can be arbitrarily placed with no justification, banning their participation and precluding even the very discussion of their existence under pain of being added to the same list one's self.

That'd make this place excellent.

You do realize that you just caused a "back to the drawing board" moment for those who are working on .Next?


And who's feeding the private group drama now? How can you tell me with a straight face, in a thread that was made with examples in the Flood, that I'm trying to further private group drama, and two posts later respond to it and further it yourself?

This is beyond outrageous.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
I am here to make sure that the community as a whole is welcoming, friendly and open.


And it's not working, as evidenced by dozens of people agreeing with my points. It's not welcoming, friendly, and open. It's a hateful place filled with despicable people which you apparently have no problem allowing as long as they don't offend white males.

I really can't believe what I'm reading from a moderator of this website. You are quite literally saying, in public, that you aren't going to protect people unless they line up with your opinion of what is "mainstream". Transphobia? Doesn't matter. Using a slur used to hurt people who aren't straight? Why care? Telling a girl she has a dick and is ugly? Why does it matter? There aren't that many girls anyway.

The Bungie community (stand by, major old-timer memory coming on) was originally a VERY rowdy place. People were more than willing to barb, slight, and poke at each other. It came with the territory. No one took it personally, it was akin to dorm-room pranks and brothers punching each other on the arm. Anyone who came into that community who was easily offended or hurt, well they either learned to keep up, or they left crying.

I don't care what the Bungie.net community used to be like. If you're saying that we should just stay they way we always have been, then what's the point of this forum we're posting in at all?

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Because if we're supposed to be open-minded and tolerant, we also have to allow people to have the right to "poor judgement and attitudes". To me, there is very little that I consider a sacred cow and while it may be rude to fart in church, it should never be illegal. (bad metaphor? too bad)


Erm, that's not what the Code of Conduct says. Being open-minded and tolerant is about allowing people to hold opinions we disagree with while not being jerks. Over half the community can't seem to grasp the second part.

I am not about to become the "this person's worldview is wrong and so they are out" police. It's a slippery slope that I won't even come near.

Haha... What am I even reading at this point...

There is no slippery slope. You ban people for being dicks, not for holding opinions. Disagreeing with same-sex marriage is fine, calling someone a name for being interested in the same sex is not. The Code of Conduct is sitting right there, man. It's a click away and everything on it supports what I'm saying.
___________________________________________________________

Maybe I'm going to be banned for this post. Maybe you'll take it like I was attacking you, being a jerk, call me a hypocrite, and stop caring. Maybe you'll decide that all of this was a publicity stunt and that I'm just some guy trying to cause trouble. That's fine. As God as my witness, this thread is sincere.

I expect nothing more from the moderating team of this site. I like some of you guys, I really do. But some of the stuff I've seen from some of you behind closed doors recently - and hell, now out in the open - really is sad. I used to care about this community, it's why I stayed here for four years. This thread has done nothing but prove my point, and this really wasn't something I wanted to be this right about.

Lock it up if you want to. I'm not checking back into the Septagon for a very, very long time.

  • 01.02.2013 3:54 PM PDT
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.

[Edited on 01.02.2013 3:56 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 3:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: Harlow
Lock it up if you want to. I'm not checking back into the Septagon for a very, very long time.

I'm sure that would be a most apt solution to your problem.

  • 01.02.2013 3:56 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Here are the options:

1) Allow the discussions to continue, but crack down on people who attempt to derail them or use them as springboards for poor trolling. I believe that's what OP is trying to advocate.

2) Don't allow the discussions to continue, because the mains are incapable of hosting them without them turning to crap.


Sadface that my call for personal responsibility and self-control in the face of "someone trying to ruin my day" is not even considered an "option".

Also odd that both listed options require imposition "from above" as opposed to "change from within" in order to "improve" a social organization. I don't think that I've ever known that to work.

Well, I am done. Have fun fixing the world! I guess that I don't "get it".

  • 01.02.2013 3:59 PM PDT

I don't see the use of making this thread. No matter what you do or say, it's useless to try and fix something that obviously cannot be fixed.

  • 01.02.2013 3:59 PM PDT

Posted by: Kurosaki_Kun

I know, right?
Jay acts like she's better than everyone else simply because she's a chick.
I hope she chokes to death.


Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Here are the options:

1) Allow the discussions to continue, but crack down on people who attempt to derail them or use them as springboards for poor trolling. I believe that's what OP is trying to advocate.

2) Don't allow the discussions to continue, because the mains are incapable of hosting them without them turning to crap.


Sadface that my call for personal responsibility and self-control in the face of "someone trying to ruin my day" is not even considered an "option".

Also odd that both listed options require imposition "from above" as opposed to "change from within" in order to "improve" a social organization. I don't think that I've ever known that to work.

Well, I am done. Have fun fixing the world! I guess that I don't "get it".
I'm sorry that I don't think the onus is on me to be the bigger person when someone is a bigot.

Actually, when someone is a bigot, I think the onus is on me to take a stand against it, not to ignore it and pretend it'll go away.

PJ's right, this is pointless. I'm out.

[Edited on 01.02.2013 4:01 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 4:01 PM PDT

Everything is getting soft these days.. now forums are? How unnecessary. Grow some balls, people.

  • 01.02.2013 4:02 PM PDT


Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: Biack Rose66

I think your example is good, and would result in an almost immediate ban. But, that is more low level trolling. I'm talking about discussions that would lie in between. Something like "would the cause of jewish-born communist leaders in European nations give Hitler more leverage to spread propaganda?" I tried to word it in a neutral way, but along these lines, a thread like that would have chance to thrive by its OP. There is a distinct difference between promoting the label of a healthy and welcoming community to doing something for the good of the community- something that HAS to be done.

We're talking about the extremes though, basically I think popular opinion shouldn't dictate who is right and who is wrong, especially if someone is really wanting to create a healthy discussion.
Take a look at this thread. It hasn't gotten this long because everyone wanted to talk about the OP's points in a reasonable and well-mannered fashion.

Do you honestly think people here would be capable of having that kind of discussion without it being dragged down to this level? I don't - and the moderators generally seem to agree, because if they didn't, they'd allow political and religious discussions that had the potential to turn out well, and they generally don't.

And yet, for some reason, that same standard isn't applied to discussions of gender, race and the like despite the fact that the same old trolls love to come out of the woodwork to derail such discussions.

Here are the options:

1) Allow the discussions to continue, but crack down on people who attempt to derail them or use them as springboards for poor trolling. I believe that's what OP is trying to advocate.

2) Don't allow the discussions to continue, because the mains are incapable of hosting them without them turning to crap.

I personally believe that solution #1 is the better one - but it requires an acknowledgement that there is a problem (i.e. that people like to derail and troll in these kinds of discussions, and more needs to be done about stopping them so that the quality of discussions and the community as a whole can increase). For some reason, several people ITT seem resistant to the idea of acknowledging that this kind of behaviour goes on at all - and ironically, they've chosen to do so in a way that only reaffirms OP's point.

I do believe that the community can be improved, because I have seen other communities improved - and because I have seen people improving here, given the right kind of encouragement. But in order to improve, one must first acknowledge that there's room for improvement. People seem oddly resistant to that.


The thread is thing long because threads that have been on the border of ban-worthy have always existed. They've never fluctuated or disappeared only to reappear. I take everything this author says with a grain of salt because of his tact. I've seen posts similar to this and all of them have meant to get people divided- that is why the thread is so long: for sake of division and discussion. It's subtle, but has certainly managed to get quite of a lot of attention.

I believe so that people could make a thread similar to how I made it, actually. I worded it quite long, true, but that is my own style of writing. All I did was make a comparative title of X to cause Y. It can be long, short, or in between: it succeeds in bringing together two topics (which, for a troll's sake, or something that someone desires to discuss) that conflict in some way. In that case, I used communism + Judiasm versus Hitler. Yeah, something like that would take some thought, but the map of the argument can be re-made for anything.

If anything, I would like for the option to have the OP be able to delete his own thread if it backfires (or can they do that? I haven't made a thread in awhile.) In that case, it can be at the main's, or the mods' decision to kick the bucket. If a thread has gone completely out of control, the main can kick it, and if it doesn't, so be it. It would be in the main's best interest to delete the thread if they've be proven wrong, they can scrap what ego they have left and act like the thread was never there.

I think people here, regardless of what side they are on, agree there is a problem. I think there is, but the main is addressing this in the wrong way. I am totally for improvement, but I am not for making the mod team out to go out in task labor to keep up the idea of "improvement."

[Edited on 01.02.2013 4:12 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 4:07 PM PDT


Posted by: jaythenerdkid

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Here are the options:

1) Allow the discussions to continue, but crack down on people who attempt to derail them or use them as springboards for poor trolling. I believe that's what OP is trying to advocate.

2) Don't allow the discussions to continue, because the mains are incapable of hosting them without them turning to crap.


Sadface that my call for personal responsibility and self-control in the face of "someone trying to ruin my day" is not even considered an "option".

Also odd that both listed options require imposition "from above" as opposed to "change from within" in order to "improve" a social organization. I don't think that I've ever known that to work.

Well, I am done. Have fun fixing the world! I guess that I don't "get it".
I'm sorry that I don't think the onus is on me to be the bigger person when someone is a bigot.

Actually, when someone is a bigot, I think the onus is on me to take a stand against it, not to ignore it and pretend it'll go away.

PJ's right, this is pointless. I'm out.


There's a difference between being a bigot and a troll, and most of the people who are going to flame here are trolls. The neat thing is the trolls actually do go away if you ignore them.

And I think a great thing for a lot of people to learn in this thread is that it's never going to make you appear like the better person if you stop discussing on the grounds that "everyone else is hopeless". This discussion is actually very nice despite what a lot of you are saying about it. Heck I'd venture to say that I'm having fun participating in it. When people try to point out things they think are wrong in your argument it's easy to take offense and give up on it, but its a lot more rewarding to discuss it out until you start talking about belly button lint instead.

  • 01.02.2013 4:10 PM PDT

Key

Playing the innocent only makes you look like even more of an antagonist, Hurley.

Maybe I'm going to be banned for this postOh no! I'm gonna get unjustly banned for my righteous campaigning for a better community! Me = woe!

Erm, that's not what the Code of Conduct says. Being open-minded and tolerant is about allowing people to hold opinions we disagree with while not being jerks. Over half the community can't seem to grasp the second part.And what part of what he said gives allowances to people so that they may be jerks to one another?

There is no slippery slope. You ban people for being dicks, not for holding opinions. Disagreeing with same-sex marriage is fine, calling someone a name for being interested in the same sex is not.What if someone says that they're belief system tells them very specifically that same-sex marriage is evil and so are those who practice it - not necessarily a religion, a belief system - and they make a thread about it and ask other people what they think about this particular ideal of this particular belief system? Is that a ban? They directly insulted nobody on the forums, and yet it's clearly more than a simple disagreement. Right at that point is the point of increased declination in the slope and the point in which a decision must be made by a mod, and I guarantee you not all of them will make the same one in that situation.

  • 01.02.2013 4:18 PM PDT
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R.I.P. DeathPimp. Never Ending Respect.

"Posted by: Kickimanjaro
I'm trying to become an '04, but it's not working too well."

Posted by: Harlow
I don't think most of you people in the Septagon realize how much of a joke that forum is around the site. Not only in the Flood but in just about every single private community I can think of.


Sorry guys, Couldn't help it.
Just doesn't feel right having been called "hostile" earlier in the thread when I was doing nothing of the sort, then remembering this PM that I received in October of 2012.

Elite Mouse said it correctly; Harlow does not like the way he is treated outside of his private group. This thread is nothing but a self interest sort of thing, and it's rather silly.

And harlow, one thing I have noticed; Any time I've noticed you in the flood, you've been being a total jerk to people who have attacked you.
If you honestly believe that there is too much hostility in the flood, you can start by not replying to the people attacking you. Just because you're defending yourself doesn't mean the hostility isn't hostile.

And to relate this to the OP for all members to understand the point I'm trying to make; If you honestly have an issue with the amount of negativity in this forum, you can start fixing it through your own posts. Chorizo pointed out the golden tip of 'leading by example'. Do unto others... all that jazz.

This OP really does feel like a troll thread now.

  • 01.02.2013 4:20 PM PDT