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This topic has moved here: Poll [46 votes]: Would you prefer Destiny to be hard sci-fi or soft sci-fi?
  • Poll [46 votes]: Would you prefer Destiny to be hard sci-fi or soft sci-fi?
Subject: Would you prefer Destiny to be hard sci-fi or soft sci-fi?

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Poll: Would you prefer Destiny to be hard sci-fi or soft sci-fi?  [closed]
hard sci-fi:  28%
(13 Votes)
soft sci-fi:  26%
(12 Votes)
Elements of both (ex: humans hard, aliens soft):  46%
(21 Votes)
Total Votes: 46

Definitions:

Hard: Account for special relativity. No violating Conservation of Energy. No Faster-Than-Light travel. No violating the Second Law of Thermodynamics. General scientific correctness when relevant topics are brought up. No sound/fire in space.

Soft: Anything goes so long as it looks like what's generally thought of as sci-fi.

This is of course a spectrum, and few titles can truly claim to occupy the "hard" end of it. I fully expect Destiny to land somewhere between the two.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because from what I've heard about Destiny so far, it could potentially be closer to the hard end than most games.

The biggest thing to me is that it's five-hundred years in the future, and humans are still restricted to their home system. That means we don't have to piss off Einstein to travel places in a reasonable amount of time, relativistic effects will be small enough that ignoring them would be realistic, and most of the places we visit will be real. Real-life theories regarding nuclear-powered engines could be applied, which would allow relatively rapid travel around the solar system without an FTL wave of the hand.


In the past, Bungie has always chosen the softer route, even back during Marathon (in some ways, Marathon is softer than Halo even). No game can ever be truly accurate (even the science itself will change eventually), but some try harder than others.

My question: Would you prefer Destiny take a "hard" science approach, that such concepts be ignored for the sake of the plot (Halo), or that there be a mix of the two in which the the hard science components are optional (Mass Effect).

  • 01.01.2013 10:28 PM PDT
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-blam!- story.

lol jk

I want a plausible sci-fi story but I don't want it to be forced on me like in lolH4.

Nor do I want it to make me feel good about myself (Crimson Team, UNSC sucks balls so we're sending you in to make up for their incompetence. Crimson Team, Majestic Team are just a bunch of cool looking dudes who don't give a -blam!- about the mission. Show them who's boss. Chief, you've made it this far so we're going to give you a new enemy that doesn't even try to kill you).

I want to make myself feel good (Chief, you just beat an entire Covenant armada. So we're going to make it up to you and send in 20x that number when you return later. Chief, you finally got the damn thing to spawn. Too bad it's sent into you another dimension and you gotta fight off waves of sword wielding cloaked Elites to keep it, ha ha!).

And I especially don't want my hand held (having a hard time because we made the enemy too cheap? Don't worry, we left the plasma pistol intact and the Needler has been buffed up x20. And if that isn't enough, we made the Boltshot extremely powerful).

[Edited on 01.01.2013 11:34 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2013 11:24 PM PDT
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I dont want any "space magic". Im fine with there being a little wiggle room for the sake of gameplay or the plot etc. I guess I'd like a mix, but I lean more torwards hard Sci-Fi.

  • 01.02.2013 12:04 AM PDT
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Personally, I prefer hard Sci-Fi. I dislike how soft Sci-Fi causes many people to believe in things that are just not scientifically sound. That being said, I understand that from a gameplay side, some aspects must be changed to make a game both story driven and fun to play. That is why I believe that Humanity should be left hard Sci-Fi, while aliens are allowed soft Sci-FI. Ultimately I will trust Bungie to make a fun game that while not necessarily realistic, it will allow me to have a Willing Suspension of Disbelief during my time with the game.

  • 01.02.2013 1:00 AM PDT
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J'ai voté pour un univers SOFT SF car je pense qu'il ne faut pas tout expliquer dans une histoire. Il faut laisser du mystère pour que le joueur puisse imaginer le reste et s'approprier le récit.
C'est une bonne chose si Bungie axe son histoire autour de la Terre, au vu des premiers artworks de Destiny. Trop de jeux se "perdent dans l'espace".

[Edited on 01.02.2013 2:30 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 2:29 AM PDT

A Bungie fan from the far cold north.

Hard sci-fi is the way to go. It gives more challenge to write a good story. But I think the aliens or whatever enemies could be significantly more advanced than humanity. That would make them feel more menacing, like the Covenant feels in the Halo novels (not so much in the games).

  • 01.02.2013 3:05 AM PDT

OMG
Master Chief w/o his Helmet!


Stosh <3's me vicariously... at least someone does...


Posted by: Tumeur
I voted for SOFT SF universe because I think it should not explain everything in a story. Must leave the mystery to the player to figure out the rest and take over the story.
This is a good thing if Bungie focuses its story around the Earth, given the first artworks Destiny. Too many games are "lost in space".


I don't think Hard Sci Fi inherently removes mystery from the story, and it's impossible to "figure out" how the universe works (without the game telling you) if it isn't based in reality. That's like saying it's possible to figure out everything in a fantasy game on your own.

I may be missing your point due to translation errors though.

  • 01.02.2013 3:56 PM PDT

This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends;
Not with a bang but a whimper.

I would like to protest your inclusion of an absence of faster-than-light (henceforth "FTL") travel as a prerequisite to hard science fiction. There are a number of theories that could allow for FTL travel while maintaining the framework of General Relativity. Take the Alcubierre Drive, in which spacetime is expanded behind a ship and contracted in front, thus allowing an arbitrarily large speed relative to a static observer. Granted, there are a number of critics of the theory, but few would go so far as to call it unscientific.

OT: I always prefer hard sifi, but if that is impossible, then at least make some gesture at realism.

[Edited on 01.02.2013 5:50 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 5:49 PM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

I'm happy with either.

:-)

  • 01.02.2013 5:59 PM PDT

OMG
Master Chief w/o his Helmet!


Stosh <3's me vicariously... at least someone does...


Posted by: xXIHAYD0IXx
I would like to protest your inclusion of an absence of faster-than-light (henceforth "FTL") travel as a prerequisite to hard science fiction. There are a number of theories that could allow for FTL travel while maintaining the framework of General Relativity. Take the Alcubierre Drive, in which spacetime is expanded behind a ship and contracted in front, thus allowing an arbitrarily large speed relative to a static observer. Granted, there are a number of critics of the theory, but few would go so far as to call it unscientific.

OT: I always prefer hard sifi, but if that is impossible, then at least make some gesture at realism.


My main problem with it in Destiny is the fact that humans are still restricted to Sol. It just seems insane to me that they'd develop FTL travel and never leave. As for FTL in general...

As you already know, Alcubierre drives aren't actually FTL, and thus are spared from my qualifiers. That is to say, you aren't actually moving faster than the speed of light within the effect of the drive. That said, such a device would require an absurd amount of energy; significantly more than is available in our entire solar system. And there are all kinds of issues about how you would leave the bubble or have any idea when to leave the bubble etc. The "natural" drives (made by constructing a corridor that would create the same effect) also aren't feasible for a civilization restricted to one system.

If you're going to introduce that kind of technology, give it to the aliens. If humans had this technology, it wouldn't make much sense for them to be restricted to Sol.

  • 01.02.2013 6:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: Silentone2

Posted by: Tumeur
I voted for SOFT SF universe because I think it should not explain everything in a story. Must leave the mystery to the player to figure out the rest and take over the story.
This is a good thing if Bungie focuses its story around the Earth, given the first artworks Destiny. Too many games are "lost in space".


I don't think Hard Sci Fi inherently removes mystery from the story, and it's impossible to "figure out" how the universe works (without the game telling you) if it isn't based in reality. That's like saying it's possible to figure out everything in a fantasy game on your own.

I may be missing your point due to translation errors though.


Vous avez bien compris ce que je voulais dire!
Cependant je ne pense pas qu'il faille tout dire pour construire un monde crédible.
Prenons l'exemple de Star Wars car c'est la source d'inspiration première de Destiny; pour moi "A new hope" est un SOFT SCIFI universe! Avec le succès et la mise en place de films supplémentaires, Star Wars est devenu un monde HARD SCIFI. Mon avis est que Star Wars était plus cool au début car il était plus "léger", plus fun.
A l'inverse, je pense que Mass Effect est HARD SCIFI dès le début et c'est ce qui me gêne personnellement. C'est trop lourd, trop plombant dès le début.
Pour Destiny, l'idéal serait un premier jeu fun, léger SOFT SCIFI qui pourrait devenir plus épais, conséquent et plus imposant avec les jeux suivants.

  • 01.03.2013 1:36 AM PDT

is anyone familiar with the show Firefly? Yea, I'm wishing for something along those lines. Good mixture of what we have now and sci-fi.

  • 01.03.2013 3:50 AM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins

well, I prefer hard sci fi, but I'm OK with necessary things like FTL and artificial gravity. And as long as the aliens are portrayed to be advanced enough they can go pretty soft if they have to.

  • 01.03.2013 10:53 AM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins


Posted by: Silentone2

Posted by: xXIHAYD0IXx
I would like to protest your inclusion of an absence of faster-than-light (henceforth "FTL") travel as a prerequisite to hard science fiction. There are a number of theories that could allow for FTL travel while maintaining the framework of General Relativity. Take the Alcubierre Drive, in which spacetime is expanded behind a ship and contracted in front, thus allowing an arbitrarily large speed relative to a static observer. Granted, there are a number of critics of the theory, but few would go so far as to call it unscientific.

OT: I always prefer hard sifi, but if that is impossible, then at least make some gesture at realism.


My main problem with it in Destiny is the fact that humans are still restricted to Sol. It just seems insane to me that they'd develop FTL travel and never leave. As for FTL in general...

As you already know, Alcubierre drives aren't actually FTL, and thus are spared from my qualifiers. That is to say, you aren't actually moving faster than the speed of light within the effect of the drive. That said, such a device would require an absurd amount of energy; significantly more than is available in our entire solar system. And there are all kinds of issues about how you would leave the bubble or have any idea when to leave the bubble etc. The "natural" drives (made by constructing a corridor that would create the same effect) also aren't feasible for a civilization restricted to one system.

If you're going to introduce that kind of technology, give it to the aliens. If humans had this technology, it wouldn't make much sense for them to be restricted to Sol.
actually, a recent re imagining of the drive would require only about the mass energy of a space probe, so it is now officially feasible.

  • 01.03.2013 10:57 AM PDT

OMG
Master Chief w/o his Helmet!


Stosh <3's me vicariously... at least someone does...


Posted by: Darthbill99

Posted by: Silentone2

Posted by: xXIHAYD0IXx
I would like to protest your inclusion of an absence of faster-than-light (henceforth "FTL") travel as a prerequisite to hard science fiction. There are a number of theories that could allow for FTL travel while maintaining the framework of General Relativity. Take the Alcubierre Drive, in which spacetime is expanded behind a ship and contracted in front, thus allowing an arbitrarily large speed relative to a static observer. Granted, there are a number of critics of the theory, but few would go so far as to call it unscientific.

OT: I always prefer hard sifi, but if that is impossible, then at least make some gesture at realism.


My main problem with it in Destiny is the fact that humans are still restricted to Sol. It just seems insane to me that they'd develop FTL travel and never leave. As for FTL in general...

As you already know, Alcubierre drives aren't actually FTL, and thus are spared from my qualifiers. That is to say, you aren't actually moving faster than the speed of light within the effect of the drive. That said, such a device would require an absurd amount of energy; significantly more than is available in our entire solar system. And there are all kinds of issues about how you would leave the bubble or have any idea when to leave the bubble etc. The "natural" drives (made by constructing a corridor that would create the same effect) also aren't feasible for a civilization restricted to one system.

If you're going to introduce that kind of technology, give it to the aliens. If humans had this technology, it wouldn't make much sense for them to be restricted to Sol.
actually, a recent re imagining of the drive would require only about the mass energy of a space probe, so it is now officially feasible.

That model, to the best of my knowledge, requires the use of exotic matter, something never seen, synthesized, or even having been implicated existing beyond the observation that it allows the relativistic velocity equation to produce a result larger than the speed of light.

That's equivalent to going the Mass Effect route, which is to say, finding a magic rock.

  • 01.03.2013 11:08 AM PDT

He's right on top of us! I wonder if he is using the same wind we are using...

Ockeghem
Missa Prolationum

I have also wondered along these lines regarding Destiny. I would generally like to be in the hard category, but with something that lets us travel faster than light so we get an even bigger chunk of the universe to explore.

  • 01.03.2013 2:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: xXIHAYD0IXx
I would like to protest your inclusion of an absence of faster-than-light (henceforth "FTL") travel as a prerequisite to hard science fiction. There are a number of theories that could allow for FTL travel while maintaining the framework of General Relativity. Take the Alcubierre Drive, in which spacetime is expanded behind a ship and contracted in front, thus allowing an arbitrarily large speed relative to a static observer. Granted, there are a number of critics of the theory, but few would go so far as to call it unscientific.

OT: I always prefer hard sifi, but if that is impossible, then at least make some gesture at realism.


Wholeheartedly agreed. I use Alcubierre drives for FTL in my writing, as they're at least plausible.

As for Destiny, HARD science fiction for SURE. It's entirely possible to have a relatively hard setting (Read: Babylon 5/Battlestar Galactica) with an excellent story, so that should not be a stumbling block for anyone.

Major prequisites for hard science fiction:
-Realistic movement in space, e.g. orbital transfers, delta-v, and RCS thrusters instead of 'Old-School Dogfighting'
-No fire/explosions in space without an oxidizer
-No sound in space (dulling sound-effects is acceptable to communicate vacuum; total silence would grow boring)
-Weaponized lasers are severely limited, in other words, invisible beam, bulky, works by BURNING the target, not blowing it up. Although explosions are possible from firing a laser at the propellant segment of a missile
-Artificial gravity as normally seen is a no-no. Either use centrifugal grav-drums, mag-boots, or go home. The potential for abuse of gravity-control technology is enormous.

And, finally, take into account the consequences of ALL new technology. If you 'design' an FTL drive for your universe, it should be limited (for example, only Lagrange points or areas outside of gravity wells can be safely used to jump). This way, you avoid unintended consequences. If said FTL drive did not require line-of-sight and could jump anywhere, you have just rendered 95% of transportation obsolete.

  • 01.04.2013 12:41 PM PDT