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  • Subject: Halo 4 - "People can't except change"
Subject: Halo 4 - "People can't except change"

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"


Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: brandorobot
Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: brandorobot
You have to accept it because your only other option is not playing the game. You can argue all day that there shouldn't have been these changes. I'm not going to state whether I agree or not but the bottom line is it happened. So you can either move on or accept it.
If we don't complain then 343 will think everyone likes their game. That's a terrible way of looking at this situation.

Is it? Because it's realistic. If most people like their game they're not jumping through hoops for the vocal minority. Sorry.
It doesn't matter if they're a vocal majority or a minority, if they're right, they're right. If you're intent on writing us off, write our ideas off directly, don't claim that we don't matter as a population without any sort of evidence to back yourself up.

But many of the things they are right, or feel their right about, are matters of opinion. A person not liking a feature of a game doesn't make it a bad game. Are there points that suffer issues with Halo 4? Of course, there have been with every Halo, but not a single Halo game has been as terrible as many of the "vocal minority" make them out to be.

While you are right in that the opinions shouldn't be written off, you need to understand that they certainly aren't gospel either.

[Edited on 01.02.2013 10:27 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 10:25 AM PDT

"except"?
lol

  • 01.02.2013 10:26 AM PDT
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The objective of war is not to die for your cause. It is to make your enemies die for theirs.

How long is it going to take OP to correct the title!? It's killing me.

  • 01.02.2013 10:26 AM PDT


Posted by: Hylebos
A lot of the new stuff sucks though.
Completely different point but regardless, I disagree. The vast majority of new stuff is refreshing and interesting. I definitely enjoy it. I don't have a clue why people are so up in arms. At least I could understand the Armor Lock ranting even if I did think it was stupid. This? Not a clue. It all seems fun to me.
Posted by: NavG123
You're wrong. It changed.

Adding new stuff changes it.
Adding stuff doesn't change the base. Because you can play without the additional stuff if you want. Basically you people are complaining over having more options than ever before because you don't like how the primary playlists aren't exactly the same as previous games. It's silly.

  • 01.02.2013 10:26 AM PDT

I can accept change.

I just cant accept change when its terrible. Its embarrassing that Halo has gotten so bad that I cant even be bothered to put my disk in.

  • 01.02.2013 10:27 AM PDT

Posted by: spartain ken 15
I would say I am one of the most successful trolls in Bungie.net history.

Ah good ole reach 2.0, I really don't see why people defend it. I don't always run into the "lrn2adapt" people like I did with reach. I seem to get a lot of people that argue reach 2.0 is a really good Halo at it's core.

Honestly, nothing could be further from the truth. reach 2.0 completely abandoned the Quake formula Halo used. Now you pick every aspect of what you spawn with, earn killstreaks, respawn instantly, and carry power ups with you at all times. So where exactly is this "core" people always talk about? I'm not seeing it.

  • 01.02.2013 10:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: brandorobot
Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: brandorobot
You have to accept it because your only other option is not playing the game. You can argue all day that there shouldn't have been these changes. I'm not going to state whether I agree or not but the bottom line is it happened. So you can either move on or accept it.
If we don't complain then 343 will think everyone likes their game. That's a terrible way of looking at this situation.

Is it? Because it's realistic. If most people like their game they're not jumping through hoops for the vocal minority. Sorry.
It doesn't matter if they're a vocal majority or a minority, if they're right, they're right. If you're intent on writing us off, write our ideas off directly, don't claim that we don't matter as a population without any sort of evidence to back yourself up.

As I stated before I'm not arguing for or against any opinion about Halo 4. I'm just being realistic about what your options are.

  • 01.02.2013 10:28 AM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Life is a journey, if you spend all of it with your nose in your map, you may miss some of the best parts.


Posted by: DatDudeBV
I can accept change.

I just cant accept change when its terrible. Its embarrassing that Halo has gotten so bad that I cant even be bothered to put my disk in.

  • 01.02.2013 10:29 AM PDT

I gaze upon the stars and see the majesty that is the universe.


EGO mos bulla astrum.

Well first of all what basis do you have to assume that everyone thinks that its flawed? Don't try to make up statements to suit your need especially when everyone should think its flawed as it is not perfect. Nothing is.

OP how about you do some real arguing. The rest of your post is nonsensical writing.

Stop blaming "casual" gamers (whatever that means) on stupid problems that you don't like. Besides the fact that the Halo "formula" hasn't changed at all (having the same weapon starts isn't a part of the formula, Halo can change from an Arena thing to whatever they want it to be therefore it is not part of the formula). It's still grenades, weapons and melee or whatever the golden triangle babbling is about.

I'm sorry that people don't like the changes or think they're terrible but sadly I think you people should move on and stop acting like losers hating something you once loved. You people act like children who just got dumped by some chick and act like you never wanted to date her in the first place.

I'm just stating the facts here.

[Edited on 01.02.2013 10:38 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 10:29 AM PDT

"Why concentrate on the negative when we can speak of the positive?"
My File Share
Try using the Search Bar next time.
Halo 2 was the best Halo game
A7x FoREVer!

People always complain about the newest Halo game, its been that way since Halo 2 came out. Also, I don't blame change for my reasons for putting Halo 4 on my shelf. Its because Halo feels old now, and I'd rather play other games. You can only play so many Halo games before you become bored of the gameplay.

  • 01.02.2013 10:29 AM PDT

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: brandorobot
Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: brandorobot
You have to accept it because your only other option is not playing the game. You can argue all day that there shouldn't have been these changes. I'm not going to state whether I agree or not but the bottom line is it happened. So you can either move on or accept it.
If we don't complain then 343 will think everyone likes their game. That's a terrible way of looking at this situation.

Is it? Because it's realistic. If most people like their game they're not jumping through hoops for the vocal minority. Sorry.
It doesn't matter if they're a vocal majority or a minority, if they're right, they're right. If you're intent on writing us off, write our ideas off directly, don't claim that we don't matter as a population without any sort of evidence to back yourself up.

But many of the things they are right, or feel their right about, are matters of opinion.
But while an opinion can't be objectively right or wrong, an opinion that is based on a strong amount of logic and reasoning should naturally trump an opinion that is much weaker in those regards. If there are good cases for both sides, then perhaps a compromise can be reached, but in many situations, one option makes a ton more sense than the other option.

I'm not honestly interested in determining whether or not Halo 4 is a bad game. That's an entirely abstract idea, and isn't particularly useful to developers, not to mention it's incredibly influenced by the prevalence of Hyperbole on the internet. I'd much rather point out specific problem areas with the game, justify why those are problems, and suggest fixes so that either the current game or future games can improve.

  • 01.02.2013 10:40 AM PDT
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3rd edition. Now with more grunt.

TFS 4 lyfe


Posted by: Hylebos
I'd much rather point out specific problem areas with the game, justify why those are problems, and suggest fixes so that either the current game or future games can improve.


Hate to break it to you, but no one from 343 works here, so unless you post on Waypoint, you may be tossing off into a volcano, to put it bluntly.

  • 01.02.2013 10:42 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"


Posted by: Hylebos
But while an opinion can't be objectively right or wrong, an opinion that is based on a strong amount of logic and reasoning should naturally trump an opinion that is much weaker in those regards. If there are good cases for both sides, then perhaps a compromise can be reached, but in many situations, one option makes a ton more sense than the other option.

But that is only if you consider the "logic" to be universal, which is not the case in the matter of opinions (most of the time). Specifically with Halo, a persons view on FPS gaming in general will affect their "logic", thus their opinion. What they feel may be a completely justified complaint will undoubtably seem non-sensical to others.

A perfect example, look at discussion between those branded competitive and those branded casual. Two very diffrent opinions on how Halo should be played, two very different thought processes. Again, all feedback should be considere but people need to remember that the vast majority of feedback is simply an opinion and remember that it will (and should) be treated as such, with it being weighed against different points of view.

  • 01.02.2013 10:49 AM PDT

Posted by: Rabid Grunt 3
Posted by: Hylebos
I'd much rather point out specific problem areas with the game, justify why those are problems, and suggest fixes so that either the current game or future games can improve.
Hate to break it to you, but no one from 343 works here, so unless you post on Waypoint, you may be tossing off into a volcano, to put it bluntly.
Not really. Rather, by discussing ideas with anyone, regardless of whether or not I'm on Waypoint, the Flood, or simply talking to computer science majors at my university, I'm refining my viewpoint, and in the process of doing so, refining my abillity to come up with those viewpoints.

  • 01.02.2013 10:50 AM PDT
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I've beaten the dead horse too many times to care anymore, but I'll say this.

Change is a good thing, when it expands upon something in a logical manner and expands and adds on to the original formula.

Sadly Halo 4 borrowed many features from other games formula's without actually expanding the existing formula, leaving a rugged, un-refined experience.

And I'll say this. The DMR should have died with Reach. When you add in a long range rifle that's not a power weapon that you can spawn with, all other weapons that have a shorter range are instantly inferior, as all the rifleman has to do is wait. Stick to the medium and close range weapons for spawning, and treat the longer range rifles as power weapons. Power weapons spawn on set locations, not ordinance drops.

Map movement will be restored as people have to get close to each other to actually hit one another, and will fight over locations that are beneficial to them. As it stands now, all you have to do in Halo 4 is sit around and wait for the other team to get bored, at which point they funnel into your killzone.

  • 01.02.2013 11:01 AM PDT

Why Bungie, why would you do this?! - Halo Community

That's because every game in the series has done stuff so radical that it overshadows every previous game.

Halo 2:
-Aim Assist that would eventually become the norm for gaming.
-Networking issues on the original Xbox.
-Glitchy
-Cliff hanger campaign ending.
-Others complaints only the biggest CE fanboys could make. (ie. Useless pistol, boarding vehicles).

Halo 3:
-AR Starts
-Non-hitscan BR.
-Useless sandbox.
-Overall bad selection of default maps.
-Bad netcode.

Reach:
-AR Starts
-Bloom
-Banshee Nuke
-Nuke Grenades
-Awful maps that make H3 maps look amazing.
-AA Loadouts.
-Armor Lock.
-Jetpack.
-The worst campaign to date.
-No ranks; introduction to "time wasted" ranks and credits.

Halo 4:
-Unlock system in an arena shooter. Riiiight.
-Broken killcams
-OP Incineration Cannon, Binary Rifle, and Boltshot.
-A worse netcode than Halo Reach.
-Butchered custom settings.
-Personal Ordinance and Random Ordinance.
-Maps that are flawed to the point they can't be played in anything but Infinity Slayer.
-Arguably awful looking armor.
-Join in progress in an arena shooter.
-Lacking Forge, previous game was better.
-The best theater was somehow Halo 3.
-There are barely any features this game has yet to take from COD, a game from a far different genre of shooters.

  • 01.02.2013 11:02 AM PDT

心の中に弱い風が吹いています。

I think I can change or accept change as it happens depending on what it is. Therefore I don't really have a problem with it in the case of Halo 4.

  • 01.02.2013 11:03 AM PDT

Halo Combat Evolved: This was the base of the Halo series, this game put a heavy emphasis on moving around the map to get power weapons and it also tried hard to start players on a even footing

Halo 2: This game introduced an online Mutiplayer component to the series along with duel wielding weapons, plus vehicle jacking. The game also removed visible health and the need for Heal Packs along with it.

Halo 3: This game introduced the forge and Theater mode, it also added equipment.

Halo 3 ODST: This game introduced the firefight mode, brought back healthpacks and added the visor mode.

Halo Reach: This game added a disparity between the strength of the Elite and Spartan player models, it added assassinations and it also converted equipment into armor abilities. (It was also was the first halo to include something similar to a load out system.)

Halo CEA: A remake so I won't say much on this.

Halo 4: This game made sprint usable at all times, it added loadouts and it removed most weapons from the maps (Preferring that players instead use the new support package system.)

Look at the higher on this page who posted a more comprehensive list of the changes throughout the series.


---------------------------------------------------------------

Alright, so why did I put that up there? Well it was to show one of two things.

1) Halo has incorporated changes throughout the franchises history.

2) And that there was a change in the direction of Halo after Halo 3.

Now I'm actually going to focus on the later point throughout the rest of this post but if you feel the need to disagree with me on the first point, by all means just quote the first point of my post and we will get moving with the debating.

So yer, what do I mean by there was a change in the direction that Halo was moving? Well if you look at Halo Combat Evolved through to Halo 3 you will see a heavy focus on a more arena style of play, players started equal and they had to move around the map to gain a temporary advantage over there peers but at no point did any player start a game on a lower footing.

Now we move towards Reach and Halo 4, you see the big change here is that the game moved towards the trends that other first person shooters use. For example, the games started to put emphasis on making your tactical choices before you entered the battle (Loadout system) and started lowering the amount of equipment you could find on a map (Less grenades and obviously no equipment).

I'm not going to say that these changes are bad because they are not, it's just a new direction for the franchise. What I will say however is that these changes have been done in the wrong way as it has alienated a large amount of the original player base and it hasn't satisfied a large amount of the new target audience.

You see the thing with other First Person Shooters is that they have adopted this new style of Gameplay to maximize on another feature of there game which is the carrot and stick unlock system. These games are designed to reward you with a new piece of equipment every few games and to make using new piece of equipment as enjoyable as possible until you unlock the next piece of gear (Which is why easier to use equipment like Grenade Launchers are unlocked first).

If they want to keep the franchise popular while sticking to this new direction, you will find the franchise slowly but sorely introducing the carrot and stick method of prolonging gameplay.

Lastly I would just like to say there is a reason I haven't mentioned ODST in the second part of my post. The reason is that it was the perfect opportunity for Microsoft to make the franchise go in both directions. They could of used ODST to go down the road most other First Person Shooters are going down and they could have used the new trilogy to expand on the old direction (Games like Reach could have been used to cross the two directions.)

Gah, there might be some incoherence in this post as I left it and came back half way through writing it. Oh and BTW, I don't mind Halo 4... I though it was going to be a terrible game but I was surprised to find I was wrong enough to still get though the campaign on the game before getting bored.





[Edited on 01.02.2013 11:48 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 11:45 AM PDT

"So- So this means Im just going to be miserable for the rest of time?!"

"No. This means that you have to live life to the fullest. You have one life, live it well. Make sure you die without regrets. Get a new life, new mate, new family. You, out of all people, don't deserve a terrible fate of misery like that. Having nothing to look forward to is good. It makes sure you want to keep on going. Living is a right, not a privilege."

Its better than Reach, stop complaining Flood.

  • 01.02.2013 11:46 AM PDT

My Brahman is ready.

Well, it's already better than Reach, which means that Halo 4 may not have been the savior of Halo that most of us expected or thought it to be, but it sure as hell got the ball rolling.

  • 01.02.2013 11:48 AM PDT
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I once made a thread asking for Halo 4 haters to come up with changes for Halo 4, new and innovative ones.

It became a hot topic, lots of people replied.

And you know what?

Other than, "make it like Halo 3", not a single idea was posted.

  • 01.02.2013 12:08 PM PDT

Posted by: BombasticBurrito
I once made a thread asking for Halo 4 haters to come up with changes for Halo 4, new and innovative ones.

It became a hot topic, lots of people replied.

And you know what?

Other than, "make it like Halo 3", not a single idea was posted.
You heard it folks. Because he made a thread asking average joes to innovate new videogame mechanics at the drop of a hat, clearly all of us want nothing more than Halo 3.

  • 01.02.2013 12:15 PM PDT

"So- So this means Im just going to be miserable for the rest of time?!"

"No. This means that you have to live life to the fullest. You have one life, live it well. Make sure you die without regrets. Get a new life, new mate, new family. You, out of all people, don't deserve a terrible fate of misery like that. Having nothing to look forward to is good. It makes sure you want to keep on going. Living is a right, not a privilege."


Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: BombasticBurrito
I once made a thread asking for Halo 4 haters to come up with changes for Halo 4, new and innovative ones.

It became a hot topic, lots of people replied.

And you know what?

Other than, "make it like Halo 3", not a single idea was posted.
You heard it folks. Because he made a thread asking average joes to innovate new videogame mechanics at the drop of a hat, clearly all of us want nothing more than Halo 3.

Wanna play Halo 3?

I wanna play Halo 3.

  • 01.02.2013 12:16 PM PDT

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."

So what is it that Change can do that's so special?

  • 01.02.2013 12:16 PM PDT

Straight Edge.

Not even reading. If I wanted to play Halo 4, with it's call of duty influenced gimmicks then I will simply play Black Ops II which is exactly what I have done.

Halo has run its course.

  • 01.02.2013 12:17 PM PDT