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Subject: Do you think the colonization and terraforming of Mars is possible...
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  • Honorable Legendary Member

Sometimes starting back from square one does good...

Ask smart questions
http://catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Then the Mars colonies will rebel against the autocratic United Nations of Earth oppression and will rise their own intergalactic power.

  • 01.02.2013 2:32 PM PDT

http://i.imgur.com/fsISj.png

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Sgt monkey41
Posted by: Recon Number 54
An interesting question is;

If we do find evidence of not just fossilized, but actual life (even microbial) on Mars... should/would we go ahead with plans to terraform, visit or otherwise colonize it?

Would we consider "leaving it alone to find its own way" if we discover it? Or, do we colonize and quite likely wipe out the flora/fauna of another world?

If the Gaia hypothesis is correct. The simple act of stepping on the planet could cause accidental terraforming.

Correct, panspermia could have occurred if any of our probes (from Viking on) were not properly sterilized.

But I wonder what would we do "if" current missions were to find something that is confirmed to be non-terran in origin or relation (something that is unlike any/all life on Earth that is VERY similar in all of its DNA structure).

Would we take a high minded and ethical approach that "we have no right to interfere in the destiny of such life, even if it stands little to no chance of evolving into a multi-cellular state?" Or do we even waste time "worrying about ET-bugs where there's land and resources at stake"?

I agree that if it is found, and we continue to visit, we're likely to introduce our own bugs and impact that planet in unforseeable ways. But perhaps that is how things get started? I don't know.

But if we are "so higher than bacteria" on another world that we feel empowered to "take it, since there is no one with a voice we can hear/understand to protest", what would we think of our world being visited by beings who were capable (and accurate) in seeing themselves as "far above us" as we consider ourselves "above bacteria"?

Would such beings have any pause over disregarding us and our "right to exist and evolve"? Would they even care to consider asking us what we think? Could they even contemplate or understand that we'd like to think that we're intelligent?

There is a meaningful difference. We are sentient and bacteria are not.

  • 01.02.2013 2:33 PM PDT

Posted by: IrIsHmAn04
no its legit, i used coordinates, set weapon timers the works.


Posted by: Traffic Cones

Posted by: xBADMAGIKx
No it's not. Mars doesn't have a proper orbit and distance from the sun to support life.


It does have sufficient distance from the sun to be able to support life. But how ?

Green house effect. The atmosphere of Mars must be thick enough to trap the suns rays and keep the rays there, approximately 2x thicker than Earth's atmosphere if I remember correctly.



Nope.

the core of Mars is dead, it's rotation is not stable for life and the distant from the sun makes it impossible for life to exist there anymore. Billions of years ago when our star was younger and hotter, maybe; but not now.

  • 01.02.2013 2:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: Traffic Cones

Posted by: xBADMAGIKx
No it's not. Mars doesn't have a proper orbit and distance from the sun to support life.


It does have sufficient distance from the sun to be able to support life. But how ?

Green house effect. The atmosphere of Mars must be thick enough to trap the suns rays and keep the rays there, approximately 2x thicker than Earth's atmosphere if I remember correctly.
Wat

  • 01.02.2013 2:33 PM PDT

Quote from Confucius

By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.


Posted by: annoyinginge
Posted by: Traffic Cones
Posted by: annoyinginge
Why the hell is everybody ITT acting like it's a choice between Mars or outside the solar system? There are other in-system celestial bodies far more likely to support life.

Mars is the closest habitual space body closest to the sun. Closer to the sun is better as plant life can grow.

Europa is a far, far more likely source of life than Mars. Fact. It has an icy outer coating, but tidal forces + geothermal activity means there's enough heat inside for there to be liquid water. In fact, there's an underground planet-wide ocean, and tonnes of organic molecules. Europa could have creatures that would make the dinosaurs look tame. With Mars, at best, there might be some underground single-celled extremophiles. It's a no-brainer.


Same as what you said goes to Mars. Ever play awaking mars on the Ipad or on the computer ? Who knows there could be plant life or some small microbes living in underground caverns close to the core.

More realistically, Mars does have water in the form of the polar ice caps and it does have heat, in the form of a molten core. Its possible that a very small community of microbes live under the polar ice cap to drink the water :/ and live close enough to the core to gain heat.

  • 01.02.2013 2:36 PM PDT

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Posted by: Recon Number 54

Posted by: Sgt monkey41

Posted by: Recon Number 54
An interesting question is;

If we do find evidence of not just fossilized, but actual life (even microbial) on Mars... should/would we go ahead with plans to terraform, visit or otherwise colonize it?

Would we consider "leaving it alone to find its own way" if we discover it? Or, do we colonize and quite likely wipe out the flora/fauna of another world?


If the Gaia hypothesis is correct. The simple act of stepping on the planet could cause accidental terraforming.

Correct, panspermia could have occurred if any of our probes (from Viking on) were not properly sterilized.

But I wonder what would we do "if" current missions were to find something that is confirmed to be non-terran in origin or relation (something that is unlike any/all life on Earth that is VERY similar in all of its DNA structure).

Would we take a high minded and ethical approach that "we have no right to interfere in the destiny of such life, even if it stands little to no chance of evolving into a multi-cellular state?" Or do we even waste time "worrying about ET-bugs where there's land and resources at stake"?

I agree that if it is found, and we continue to visit, we're likely to introduce our own bugs and impact that planet in unforseeable ways. But perhaps that is how things get started? I don't know.

But if we are "so higher than bacteria" on another world that we feel empowered to "take it, since there is no one with a voice we can hear/understand to protest", what would we think of our world being visited by beings who were capable (and accurate) in seeing themselves as "far above us" as we consider ourselves "above bacteria"?

Would such beings have any pause over disregarding us and our "right to exist and evolve"? Would they even care to consider asking us what we think? Could they even contemplate or understand that we'd like to think that we're intelligent?


With the current government state of mind, money is everything.
"We have colonised Mars" is more likely to bring in more cash and keep them in office longer than "We're leaving Mars to evolve".
I don't think it'd even been properly considered by the government. Of course we'd have all the environmental groups up in arms, but everything is done about profit now, rather than the good of mankind etc.

  • 01.02.2013 2:37 PM PDT

I'm pretty sure it's already being planned

  • 01.02.2013 2:38 PM PDT

http://i.imgur.com/fsISj.png

Posted by: Traffic Cones
Posted by: annoyinginge
Posted by: Traffic Cones
Posted by: annoyinginge
Why the hell is everybody ITT acting like it's a choice between Mars or outside the solar system? There are other in-system celestial bodies far more likely to support life.

Mars is the closest habitual space body closest to the sun. Closer to the sun is better as plant life can grow.

Europa is a far, far more likely source of life than Mars. Fact. It has an icy outer coating, but tidal forces + geothermal activity means there's enough heat inside for there to be liquid water. In fact, there's an underground planet-wide ocean, and tonnes of organic molecules. Europa could have creatures that would make the dinosaurs look tame. With Mars, at best, there might be some underground single-celled extremophiles. It's a no-brainer.

Same as what you said goes to Mars. Ever play awaking mars on the Ipad or on the computer ? Who knows there could be plant life or some small microbes living in underground caverns close to the core.

More realistically, Mars does have water in the form of the polar ice caps and it does have heat, in the form of a molten core. Its possible that a very small community of microbes live under the polar ice cap to drink the water :/ and live close enough to the core to gain heat.

You get your knowledge from an iPad game? Well, that explains a lot. I'm going to have to recommend you read some Paul Davies before making further posts.

  • 01.02.2013 2:38 PM PDT
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Lady Astor: "If I were your wife I'd put poison in your coffee."
Winston Churchill: "If I were your husband I'd drink it !"

It will be possible in the future, heres an picture that you should check out showing the timeline for terraforming mars. Moreover what needs to be accomplished to live on mars.

[Edited on 01.02.2013 2:42 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2013 2:41 PM PDT


Posted by: Traffic Cones

Posted by: xBADMAGIKx
No it's not. Mars doesn't have a proper orbit and distance from the sun to support life.


It does have sufficient distance from the sun to be able to support life. But how ?

Green house effect. The atmosphere of Mars must be thick enough to trap the suns rays and keep the rays there, approximately 2x thicker than Earth's atmosphere if I remember correctly.


Nope, it's about half as thick as Earth's. Mars has no magnetosphere (anymore), and so solar winds strip away it's atmosphere.

  • 01.02.2013 2:41 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: annoyinginge
There is a meaningful difference. We are sentient and bacteria are not.

But what if there are levels of awareness, of thought, of consciousness that are as far distant between our "sentience" and the lack of the same in bacteria on the other end of the spectrum?

What if we, in comparison to another life form, are so sadly "unaware of the universe" that our pride and self-satisfaction over our "intelligence" is not even a significant mark on the scale for other beings?

What of our pride and intelligence then? Who are we to determine where the "meaningful differences" are when we only have ourselves as one point on a scale where we place ourselves at the pinnacle despite the fact that we have only our tree of life to examine?

Who are we to say that we're intelligent?

  • 01.02.2013 2:41 PM PDT

Quote from Confucius

By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.


Posted by: annoyinginge
Posted by: Traffic Cones
Posted by: annoyinginge
Posted by: Traffic Cones
Posted by: annoyinginge
Why the hell is everybody ITT acting like it's a choice between Mars or outside the solar system? There are other in-system celestial bodies far more likely to support life.

Mars is the closest habitual space body closest to the sun. Closer to the sun is better as plant life can grow.

Europa is a far, far more likely source of life than Mars. Fact. It has an icy outer coating, but tidal forces + geothermal activity means there's enough heat inside for there to be liquid water. In fact, there's an underground planet-wide ocean, and tonnes of organic molecules. Europa could have creatures that would make the dinosaurs look tame. With Mars, at best, there might be some underground single-celled extremophiles. It's a no-brainer.

Same as what you said goes to Mars. Ever play awaking mars on the Ipad or on the computer ? Who knows there could be plant life or some small microbes living in underground caverns close to the core.

More realistically, Mars does have water in the form of the polar ice caps and it does have heat, in the form of a molten core. Its possible that a very small community of microbes live under the polar ice cap to drink the water :/ and live close enough to the core to gain heat.

You get your knowledge from an iPad game? Well, that explains a lot. I'm going to have to recommend you read some Paul Davies before making further posts.


The argument your saying is that "there is life on Europa"

The argument I am saying is "there is life on Mars too"

I'm think there's life on Europa too. Finding it will be difficult now can we get on topic as to colonisation.

  • 01.02.2013 2:42 PM PDT

Quote from Confucius

By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.


Posted by: cameronm98

Posted by: Traffic Cones

Posted by: xBADMAGIKx
No it's not. Mars doesn't have a proper orbit and distance from the sun to support life.


It does have sufficient distance from the sun to be able to support life. But how ?

Green house effect. The atmosphere of Mars must be thick enough to trap the suns rays and keep the rays there, approximately 2x thicker than Earth's atmosphere if I remember correctly.


Nope, it's about half as thick as Earth's. Mars has no magnetosphere (anymore), and so solar winds strip away it's atmosphere.


Ya true read this article though sounds promosing.

  • 01.02.2013 2:43 PM PDT

Dumb people are just blissfully unaware of how very dumb they are.


Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: annoyinginge
There is a meaningful difference. We are sentient and bacteria are not.

But what if there are levels of awareness, of thought, of consciousness that are as far distant between our "sentience" and the lack of the same in bacteria on the other end of the spectrum?

What if we, in comparison to another life form, are so sadly "unaware of the universe" that our pride and self-satisfaction over our "intelligence" is not even a significant mark on the scale for other beings?

What of our pride and intelligence then? Who are we to determine where the "meaningful differences" are when we only have ourselves as one point on a scale where we place ourselves at the pinnacle despite the fact that we have only our tree of life to examine?

Who are we to say that we're intelligent?



Exactly. There is probably alien life out there that would think of us as "Bacteria"

  • 01.02.2013 2:44 PM PDT
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I do not want to stop asking. I do not ask to stop wanting.


Posted by: Recon Number 54
Would we consider "leaving it alone to find its own way" if we discover it? Or, do we colonize and quite likely wipe out the flora/fauna of another world?


Annnnnd Recon just stole one of the plot threads of a sci fi that a wrote a few years ago.

Goddamn.

  • 01.02.2013 2:46 PM PDT


Posted by: Traffic Cones

Posted by: cameronm98

Posted by: Traffic Cones

Posted by: xBADMAGIKx
No it's not. Mars doesn't have a proper orbit and distance from the sun to support life.


It does have sufficient distance from the sun to be able to support life. But how ?

Green house effect. The atmosphere of Mars must be thick enough to trap the suns rays and keep the rays there, approximately 2x thicker than Earth's atmosphere if I remember correctly.


Nope, it's about half as thick as Earth's. Mars has no magnetosphere (anymore), and so solar winds strip away it's atmosphere.


Ya true read this article though sounds promosing.


Maybe we could kick-start the core back up or something?

  • 01.02.2013 2:50 PM PDT

http://i.imgur.com/fsISj.png

Posted by: Traffic Cones
Mars has a slight possibility of harboring a small amount of single-celled, extremely dull life and is unfit for colonization for a wide range of reasons, some of which you have been told in this thread. Europa is a far more likely candidate for life, the only candidate for complex life and it's far more plausible we could survive on Europa. Don't pretend the two are equivalent.

  • 01.02.2013 2:50 PM PDT

Quote from Confucius

By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.


Posted by: annoyinginge
Posted by: Traffic Cones
Mars has a slight possibility of harboring a small amount of single-celled, extremely dull life and is unfit for colonization for a wide range of reasons, some of which you have been told in this thread. Europa is a far more likely candidate for life, the only candidate for complex life and it's far more plausible we could survive on Europa. Don't pretend the two are equivalent.


Surviving on Europa, I've never heard that please explain.

  • 01.02.2013 2:51 PM PDT
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GrownPrism is NOT my gt. Happened when signing into my xbox live account. My real gt is here:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Default.aspx?player=SYNTHES lS&sg=0

I believe it is possible, but it's most likely not going to happen anytime soon.

  • 01.02.2013 2:59 PM PDT
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GrownPrism is NOT my gt. Happened when signing into my xbox live account. My real gt is here:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Default.aspx?player=SYNTHES lS&sg=0


Posted by: Recon Number 54
An interesting question is;

If we do find evidence of not just fossilized, but actual life (even microbial) on Mars... should/would we go ahead with plans to terraform, visit or otherwise colonize it?

Would we consider "leaving it alone to find its own way" if we discover it? Or, do we colonize and quite likely wipe out the flora/fauna of another world?


That's easy, we alter it to suit our own needs.

/No morals

  • 01.02.2013 3:00 PM PDT

When the zombies arrive-i'll be there to pick up the pieces.

Winner of the Xforgery Haloween competition 2009

If we were to terraform Mars, would this be the basic idea of how to do it?

1. Find ideal location to build inhabitable "dome".
2. Begin construction of dome, with builders living on a space station until construction is complete.
3. Fill dome with gases like Earth, so air is breathable.
4. Import resources to generate heat in the dome.
5. Import soils, water, ect... to create a self sufficient environment. Lots of trees.
6. Find alternative fuels and energy resources to tap and use.
7. Begin construction of permanent homes in the dome.
8. Begin expanding the domes, either making it larger, or building more.
9. Begin farming, so food isn't in short supply.
10. Bring in people when the domes are properly liveable in, so a new society can be made, with all the things needed, eg. jobs, entertainment, relaxation.
11. Set up transport networks and keep expanding.

Would this basic idea work?

  • 01.02.2013 3:11 PM PDT

“Oh, it’s a little bit of everything, it’s the mountains, it’s the fog, it’s the news at six o’clock, it’s the death of my first dog, it’s the angels up above me, it’s the song that they don’t sing, It’s a little bit of everything.”
- Dawes, A little bit of everything

Yes and yes, in good time.

  • 01.02.2013 3:12 PM PDT
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GrownPrism is NOT my gt. Happened when signing into my xbox live account. My real gt is here:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Default.aspx?player=SYNTHES lS&sg=0


Posted by: Sgt Jackson CC
If we were to terraform Mars, would this be the basic idea of how to do it?

1. Find ideal location to build inhabitable "dome".
2. Begin construction of dome, with builders living on a space station until construction is complete.
3. Fill dome with gases like Earth, so air is breathable.
4. Import resources to generate heat in the dome.
5. Import soils, water, ect... to create a self sufficient environment. Lots of trees.
6. Find alternative fuels and energy resources to tap and use.
7. Begin construction of permanent homes in the dome.
8. Begin expanding the domes, either making it larger, or building more.
9. Begin farming, so food isn't in short supply.
10. Bring in people when the domes are properly liveable in, so a new society can be made, with all the things needed, eg. jobs, entertainment, relaxation.
11. Set up transport networks and keep expanding.

Would this basic idea work?


Or for water you could just melt the ice caps.

  • 01.02.2013 3:14 PM PDT

I r guy who gun to teach u lesson


Posted by: Viron
It will be possible in the future, heres an picture that you should check out showing the timeline for terraforming mars. Moreover what needs to be accomplished to live on mars.


Only 1.5 trillion dollars to acquire a planet? Hells to the yes, when we get the technology there is no reason not to do it for that cheap. Are you sure its only one trillion?

(Yes I know that's a lot but I thought it be something ridiculous like hundreds of trillion)

  • 01.02.2013 3:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: Statefarm98

Posted by: Viron
It will be possible in the future, heres an picture that you should check out showing the timeline for terraforming mars. Moreover what needs to be accomplished to live on mars.


Only 1.5 trillion dollars to acquire a planet? Hells to the yes, when we get the technology there is no reason not to do it for that cheap. Are you sure its only one trillion?

(Yes I know that's a lot but I thought it be something ridiculous like hundreds of trillion)

Look at the chart closely, it's more than 1.5 trillion.

  • 01.02.2013 4:53 PM PDT

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