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Subject: "Overweight or unhealthy people... could have their benefits s...

Quick as a razor, sharp as a bullet.

As long as people who can do nothing about their obesity aren't affected.

Otherwise, fatties go bye-bye.

  • 01.03.2013 6:21 AM PDT

You look around.You fire your weapon before you realize.
Its just me. I fall and you walk up. You cry why.
When i pop up. You look at me in wonder. I say,"ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL."
You bend to my will and go to a cliff, walk off, and fall.
The last thing you hear is me stating as fact,"All will fail the battle of life, you just went early"


Posted by: Tartan 118
As long as people who can do nothing about their obesity aren't affected.

Otherwise, fatties go bye-bye.


I'm assuming they won't be, but you never know. They might actually be included in this and, if they are, this plan will probably not survive.

I'm going to see if I can find more details on this.

I have things to do today, so, should this thread still be alive in a few hours, I will post my findings when I get back.

[Edited on 01.03.2013 6:32 AM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 6:25 AM PDT

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Hello.

I like the idea, but it isn't wholely necessary.

  • 01.03.2013 6:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: Tartan 118
As long as people who can do nothing about their obesity aren't affected.

And who might those be?

Weight gain is still driven by a simple formula.

Calories In > Calories Out = Gain Weight
Calories In < Calories Out = Lose Weight

This is coming from someone who has Hashimoto's Disease - a thyroid disorder that is so often quoted as people who "can't help themselves" lose weight. I take synthroid - a medication to treat my thyroid that also lists "weight gain" as a symptom.

I've never been overweight, even if a disease's symptoms makes me more at risk, because I live and eat in a healthy way.

No excuse for almost anyone in my book.

[Edited on 01.03.2013 6:35 AM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 6:33 AM PDT

Quick as a razor, sharp as a bullet.

Right. But there may still be people out there who simply cannot help their weight for some reason.

People who just eat too much and don't get enough exercise should be at risk of losing their benefits if they can't return to they system what they require.

  • 01.03.2013 6:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: A Good Troll
No excuse for almost anyone in my book.

Still, there are a lot of metabolic and mental disorders which can cause severe weight issues.

Just because you have a thyroid disorder and have never been overweight does not mean you can claim that others should have no excuse to be so; there are a lot of 'variables' to consider- e.g. depression can commonly cause weight issues and is not so easily cast off through sheer will power. Don't get me wrong, you've done a great effort in avoiding weight issues as is so common with hypothyroid issues, so I tip my hat to you sir- but the issue remains that the outlook should not be a 'one size fits all' determination.

That said, I agree with Tartan.

  • 01.03.2013 6:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: Tartan 118
Right. But there may still be people out there who simply cannot help their weight for some reason.

Like whom? And of those people, why can't they do anything about it?

Posted by: BANZAl
depression can commonly cause weight issues and is not so easily cast off through sheer will power.

Sure - depression can cause issues because people who are depressed are generally lethargic and unmotivated.

But exercise has been shown to boost happiness and combat depression. Seems like a prescription for exercise would hit two birds with one stone - the excess weight and the depression itself.

Keep in mind this program isn't saying fat people = no benefits, it is saying fat people who aren't trying = no benefits.

[Edited on 01.03.2013 6:56 AM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 6:51 AM PDT


Posted by: TwistedDippy666
Id reduce the size of the title if I were you.

This doesn't seem too bad actually, it would make our country healthier and we'd have more money to put towards the nhs because there will always be those who don't try.

My Mum is genuinly ill and cant work and her benifits get cut just because some fat ass scoffed to many cakes needs more cakes. I think its a great idea myself

  • 01.03.2013 6:52 AM PDT


Posted by: A Good Troll

Posted by: Tartan 118
Right. But there may still be people out there who simply cannot help their weight for some reason.

Like whom? And of those people, why can't they do anything about it?

Exactly. MAYBE some people get fatter easier than others, but there is no reason they cant cut their weight down to an appropriate size. You dont even have to be slim at all.

  • 01.03.2013 6:54 AM PDT


Posted by: Lazy bazooka
Good.

Posted by: Lazy bazooka
Good.

Posted by: Lazy bazooka
Good.

Posted by: Lazy bazooka
Good.
.

  • 01.03.2013 6:55 AM PDT
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“Strange,” mused the Director, as they turned away, “strange to think that even in Our Ford’s day most games were played without more apparatus than a ball or two and a few sticks and perhaps a bit of netting. imagine the folly of allowing people to play elaborate games which do nothing whatever to increase consumption.”

The Black Chapter!

Posted by: A Good Troll
Posted by: Tartan 118
Right. But there may still be people out there who simply cannot help their weight for some reason.
Like whom? And of those people, why can't they do anything about it?
People with weak hearts (for whom exercise is therefore dangerous) and people who are chronically wheelchair bound (exercise isn't impossible, but I can imagine access being a lot more difficult) are two categories that spring to mind.

  • 01.03.2013 6:57 AM PDT

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I'm glad to see something may be getting done about the increasing obesity rates here in the UK. Unlike some other countries.

Yes. I'm looking at you, America.

  • 01.03.2013 6:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: Telec
Posted by: A Good Troll
Posted by: Tartan 118
Right. But there may still be people out there who simply cannot help their weight for some reason.
Like whom? And of those people, why can't they do anything about it?
People with weak hearts (for whom exercise is therefore dangerous) and people who are chronically wheelchair bound (exercise isn't impossible, but I can imagine access being a lot more difficult) are two categories that spring to mind.

These are groups of people that can not exercise in the way me and you do, yes.

But that doesn't mean all exercise is off the table completely, and as the article stated, this isn't saying you must be skinny, it is saying you must follow a doctor's prescribed orders for exercise.

I'm sure it would be a reasonable assumption that doctors would not prescribe this exercise regimen(which would trigger benefits cuts if not followed) for those it would genuinely put at risk.

  • 01.03.2013 7:01 AM PDT


Posted by: Telec
Posted by: A Good Troll
Posted by: Tartan 118
Right. But there may still be people out there who simply cannot help their weight for some reason.
Like whom? And of those people, why can't they do anything about it?
People with weak hearts (for whom exercise is therefore dangerous) and people who are chronically wheelchair bound (exercise isn't impossible, but I can imagine access being a lot more difficult) are two categories that spring to mind.


Then they can eat less.

  • 01.03.2013 7:02 AM PDT

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Posted by: Jesse Pinkman

Posted by: A Good Troll

Posted by: Tartan 118
Right. But there may still be people out there who simply cannot help their weight for some reason.

Like whom? And of those people, why can't they do anything about it?

Exactly. MAYBE some people get fatter easier than others, but there is no reason they cant cut their weight down to an appropriate size. You dont even have to be slim at all.


Roughly 1% of overweight people have a genetic condition which makes it almost impossible to have a low bodyfat %. My mom has done dozens of triathlons and marathons, including Ironman, but is still overweight despite at some points doing 6+ hours of cardio per day because of a thyroid disorder.

[Edited on 01.03.2013 7:02 AM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 7:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
Roughly 1% of overweight people have a genetic condition which makes it almost impossible to have a low bodyfat %. My mom has done dozens of triathlons and marathons, including Ironman, but is still overweight despite at some points doing 6+ hours of cardio per day because of a thyroid disorder.

Then she eats more than she needs to. Thyroid disorders cause disruption of thyroxine, which regulates basal metabolic rate - resting metabolism.

Resting metabolism can vary person to person by a couple hundred calories burned per day - but cutting calories by a couple hundred calories to put yourself in line with other normal resting metabolic rates is well within the control of the patient.

It is very easy for runners to overeat even after exercise burn, because the body craves cheap, easily broken down calories after exercise.

I'm sure you've seen your mom in front of a bowl of pasta or rice after exercise because those carbs are craved. Those carbs are also high calorie and it is easy to eat more than you just burned.

[Edited on 01.03.2013 7:14 AM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 7:08 AM PDT

I agree that all presidents should serve 2 terms. 1 in office and 1 in prison

The question I have is if they do cut benefits, are they just going to turn them away from treatment at the door? What if they are already an inpatient in a hospital? Would they just boot them out the door, or just pass on the bill to the taxpayers? It sounds like a good plan if they can take care of those few things.

[Edited on 01.03.2013 7:11 AM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 7:10 AM PDT
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Posted by: A Good Troll
Sure - depression can cause issues because people who are depressed are generally lethargic and unmotivated.

But exercise has been shown to boost happiness and combat depression. Seems like a prescription for exercise would hit two birds with one stone - the excess weight and the depression itself.

You're right it would be, but its very hard to get past the wall of depression- sure enough if someone with depression and weight issues begins exercising and sees a change then they will be happier and it will result in a more positive run of the cycle they are trapped in. However no results from exercising can be disheartening- to the extent that it can wind up making the person more depressed.

I suppose it has more to do with will power and motivation then it does a capacity for exercise.

Keep in mind this program isn't saying fat people = no benefits, it is saying fat people who aren't trying = no benefits.
Yes I realise that and i agree with it, however I did not agree with the previous statement you made about there being no excuse for people with weight issues.


Posted by: A Good Troll
Thyroid disorders cause disruption of thyroxine, which regulates basal metabolic rate - resting metabolism.

Resting metabolism can vary person to person by a couple hundred calories burned per day - but cutting calories by a couple hundred calories to put yourself in line with other normal resting metabolic rates is well within the control of the patient.

Thyroid disorders also cause a disruption to the normality of triiodothyronine, a compound just as important as thyroxine in metabolic regulation. But beyond this the metabolic capacity of a person is much more complex and indeed can be 'interfered' by other variables. Just cutting calorie intake may not be the only thing that needs to be changed to accumulate in a weight difference.

  • 01.03.2013 7:24 AM PDT

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Posted by: A Good Troll

Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
Roughly 1% of overweight people have a genetic condition which makes it almost impossible to have a low bodyfat %. My mom has done dozens of triathlons and marathons, including Ironman, but is still overweight despite at some points doing 6+ hours of cardio per day because of a thyroid disorder.

Then she eats more than she needs to. Thyroid disorders cause disruption of thyroxine, which regulates basal metabolic rate - resting metabolism.

Resting metabolism can vary person to person by a couple hundred calories burned per day - but cutting calories by a couple hundred calories to put yourself in line with other normal resting metabolic rates is well within the control of the patient.

It is very easy for runners to overeat even after exercise burn, because the body craves cheap, easily broken down calories after exercise.

I'm sure you've seen your mom in front of a bowl of pasta or rice after exercise because those carbs are craved. Those carbs are also high calorie and it is easy to eat more than you just burned.


While training for Ironman (6+ hours of cardio 4/5 days per week), she followed a strict diet with low fat. The purpose of that diet was not to lose weight, though. She has done numerous diets, including Atkins with minimal success. The truth is that simply cutting some calories is not sufficient. When you're burning 2000-3000kc from a workout, it's certainly not "easy to eat more than you just burned".

  • 01.03.2013 7:37 AM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

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Huh.

Well, they do have the NHS, which is paid for by everybody. So, it is only fair tht they do this if someone's the kind of fat that's from living an unhealthy lifestyle.

  • 01.03.2013 7:39 AM PDT
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the will to win is the will to destroy

well i don't want the NHS solving my fat problem i ate too much i deal with it even my brother says he doesn't want any help if he turns out to have cancer from him smoking, if you have caused the problem you deal with it.

  • 01.03.2013 7:41 AM PDT

GOOD! It's about time people had to take responsibility for their actions.

  • 01.03.2013 7:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
While training for Ironman (6+ hours of cardio 4/5 days per week), she followed a strict diet with low fat. The purpose of that diet was not to lose weight, though. She has done numerous diets, including Atkins with minimal success. The truth is that simply cutting some calories is not sufficient. When you're burning 2000-3000kc from a workout, it's certainly not "easy to eat more than you just burned".

Refer to physics. You can't create matter from nothing. Fat is not spontaneously generated. You can't gain weight if you are burning everything you are taking in in a given day, that is just scientific fact.

Sure, if you starve yourself one day and eat the next, your body will react and try to cut down on processes and store that consumed food as fat. That is why starvation diets fail. But in the long run, you can not gain weight if your body is burning everything you eat and then some.

  • 01.03.2013 7:46 AM PDT

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