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  • Subject: Hiroshima AND Nagasaki?
Subject: Hiroshima AND Nagasaki?

"I will show you how a true Prussian officer fights!"

"And i will show you where the iron crosses grow..."

- "Cross of Iron"


Posted by: Locke357

Posted by: Raptorx7
Oh yeah when we decided to retaliate against Japan our first idea was THE SLAUGHTEr of civilians, you disgust me. Yeah we just went out there to kill civilians. Yeah man you know a lot about history we should bow down to you.
As someone who literally spent an entire semester studying the decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan, I know a thing or two about history. The FACT is that the USA killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians in WWII. Argue the morality all you want, I'm simply stating facts here.


Everyone should know that it killed civilians...i don't understand your argument now?

  • 01.03.2013 12:01 PM PDT


Posted by: Raptorx7
Posted by: Locke357

Posted by: RockdaleRooster

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Raptorx7
Yes it was.

It saved hundreds of thousands of American lives.[/quote]At the cost of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians[/quote]
If America had invade it would have cost the Japanese millions of civilians. An invasion of the home islands wouldn't have been war it would have been genocide. Look at the casualty estimates as terrible as the bombs were they were the right choice.
As typical of those spawned from the American education system, you and others postulating views like yours are completely and utterly ignoring the Soviet Union.

The Japanese had already lost hundreds of thousands of their civilians to American bombing campaigns.


Oh Japan was full of sweet hearts when they murdered and raped 15 million chinese civilians, i mean the U.S. is the ultimate evil right? God forbid we retaliate in a way that will let us win?

I am an American and i guarantee you i know way more then you do about all theaters of this war.


And you retaliated against innocent Afghanistanis and killed over a million of them. And killed over 700,000 Iraqis cause they "had weapons" What a peaceful nation.


So you are saying we PURPOSELY killed 700,000 Iraqi civilians?

You guys shock me everyday its amazing.


What happens when you drop bunker bombs on civizilans? Pizza comes out of their ass? They blow into pieces. Quit acting dumb. The US is the worlds biggest murderer.

  • 01.03.2013 12:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: Hayabusawarrior

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Hayabusawarrior

Posted by: lightlamp2

At the cost of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians lives.
God the ignorance. The government drove fear into the hearts of all Japanese citizen. They would fight to the end, and commit suicide rather than be captured. Look at the Aleutian Islands if you don't believe me.

And you realize MANY more people died in the Tokyo fire raids then in both atomic bombs combined. I dont get why everyone says the atomic bombs are so bad, when they did relatively little damage. Yes they were horrible, but the good outweighed the bad.
Atomic bombs ARE bad. But they are a necessary evil. I fail to see the ignorance in mentioning how many died in the atomic bombings
They barley killed anyone in relativity. They were used as shock value, and saved more lives then they killed tenfold.
But its about the ethical reasons behind it. Atomic bombs are not used as a military target. They are used solely for the purpose of killing massive populations.

  • 01.03.2013 12:02 PM PDT

“If we will disbelieve everything, because we cannot certainly know all things, we shall do much what as wisely as he who would not use his legs, but sit still and perish, because he had no wings to fly.” - John Locke

"How can anyone be enlightened? Truth after all is so poorly lit." - Rush


Posted by: Murcielago00

Posted by: Locke357
Evidence suggests that the soviet entry into the war against Japan, not the atomic bombings, caused to Japanese to surrender in the end.


Source?
Asada, Sadao. "The Shock of the Atomic Bomb and Japan's Decision to Surrender: A Reconsideration," in Hiroshima in History: The Myths of Revisionism, edited by Robert James Maddox, 24-58. Columbia: University of Missouri Press, 2007.

Bix, Herbert P. "Japan's Delayed Surrender: A Reinterpretation," in Hiroshima in History and Memory, ed. Michael J. Hogan, 80-115. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1996.

Frank, Richard B. Downfall: the End of the Imperial Japanese Empire. New York: Penguin, 1999.

Hasegawa, Tsuyoshi. Racing the Enemy: Stalin, Truman, and the Surrender of Japan. Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 2005.

  • 01.03.2013 12:03 PM PDT


Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Hayabusawarrior

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Hayabusawarrior

Posted by: lightlamp2

At the cost of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians lives.
God the ignorance. The government drove fear into the hearts of all Japanese citizen. They would fight to the end, and commit suicide rather than be captured. Look at the Aleutian Islands if you don't believe me.

And you realize MANY more people died in the Tokyo fire raids then in both atomic bombs combined. I dont get why everyone says the atomic bombs are so bad, when they did relatively little damage. Yes they were horrible, but the good outweighed the bad.
Atomic bombs ARE bad. But they are a necessary evil. I fail to see the ignorance in mentioning how many died in the atomic bombings
They barley killed anyone in relativity. They were used as shock value, and saved more lives then they killed tenfold.
But its about the ethical reasons behind it. Atomic bombs are not used as a military target. They are used solely for the purpose of killing massive populations.


If another country was in the same situation and they used the bombs everyone would be calling them evil and murdereres. But if America does it's OK. Bunch of hypocrites.

  • 01.03.2013 12:03 PM PDT

"Banhammer" - Post anything on the Waypoint forums -50g
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Posted by: NinjaLord77
And you retaliated against innocent Afghanistanis and killed over a million of them. And killed over 700,000 Iraqis cause they "had weapons" What a peaceful nation.
Your American and you're defending the Afghani's?

Im confused.

  • 01.03.2013 12:03 PM PDT

"I will show you how a true Prussian officer fights!"

"And i will show you where the iron crosses grow..."

- "Cross of Iron"


Posted by: NinjaLord77

Posted by: Raptorx7
Posted by: Locke357

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Raptorx7
Yes it was.

It saved hundreds of thousands of American lives.[/quote]At the cost of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians[/quote]
If America had invade it would have cost the Japanese millions of civilians. An invasion of the home islands wouldn't have been war it would have been genocide. Look at the casualty estimates as terrible as the bombs were they were the right choice.[/quote]As typical of those spawned from the American education system, you and others postulating views like yours are completely and utterly ignoring the Soviet Union.

The Japanese had already lost hundreds of thousands of their civilians to American bombing campaigns.


Oh Japan was full of sweet hearts when they murdered and raped 15 million chinese civilians, i mean the U.S. is the ultimate evil right? God forbid we retaliate in a way that will let us win?

I am an American and i guarantee you i know way more then you do about all theaters of this war.


And you retaliated against innocent Afghanistanis and killed over a million of them. And killed over 700,000 Iraqis cause they "had weapons" What a peaceful nation.


So you are saying we PURPOSELY killed 700,000 Iraqi civilians?

You guys shock me everyday its amazing.


What happens when you drop bunker bombs on civizilans? Pizza comes out of their ass? They blow into pieces. Quit acting dumb. The US is the worlds biggest murderer.


Oh your adorable with your anti American thoughts.

You just compared war casualties (not intentional) in Iraq to the intentional murder of Chinese civilians by the Japanese military, i am done arguing with you i suggest you read a book.

Yes America truly is the greatest evil in the world, people die in war quite a shocker indeed!

  • 01.03.2013 12:04 PM PDT

Why Bungie, why would you do this?! - Halo Community

From what I read they wouldn't have surrendered after the first bomb.

Sadly, while I don't condone bombing civilians, it was unavoidable. Them initially attacking Pearl Harbor unprovoked secured that fate.

  • 01.03.2013 12:04 PM PDT

“If we will disbelieve everything, because we cannot certainly know all things, we shall do much what as wisely as he who would not use his legs, but sit still and perish, because he had no wings to fly.” - John Locke

"How can anyone be enlightened? Truth after all is so poorly lit." - Rush


Posted by: RockdaleRooster

Posted by: Locke357

Posted by: RockdaleRooster

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Raptorx7
Yes it was.

It saved hundreds of thousands of American lives.
At the cost of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians

If America had invade it would have cost the Japanese millions of civilians. An invasion of the home islands wouldn't have been war it would have been genocide. Look at the casualty estimates as terrible as the bombs were they were the right choice.
As typical of those spawned from the American education system, you and others postulating views like yours are completely and utterly ignoring the Soviet Union.

The Japanese had already lost hundreds of thousands of their civilians to American bombing campaigns.

And yet they still weren't ready to give up and surrender the way the Americans wanted. Refer to my post before this and I explain the Soviet Union. The reason the Americans did not want the Emperor to remain in power was because he was in himself a cause of Japanese Militarism. Well, perhaps cause isn't the right word. He was used as a symbol of why Japan should expand. The Japanese believed the Emperor to be a divine person. Therefore the militaristic generals of Japan said that the Japanese expansion and reason to fight for the Emperor were like fighting for their God and would bring honor. The Japanese introduced the bushido idea and fed of the Emperors deity status to support it. If the Emperor had been left in power after the war with no successful deterrent like the atomic bombs what's stopping some other group of power mad people exploiting the beliefs of the Japanese people to cause another World War?
What you said there is true however it by no means proves that the atomic bombs caused the japanese surrender, and not the Soviet entry into the war against Japan.

  • 01.03.2013 12:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Hayabusawarrior

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: Hayabusawarrior

Posted by: lightlamp2

At the cost of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians lives.[/quote]God the ignorance. The government drove fear into the hearts of all Japanese citizen. They would fight to the end, and commit suicide rather than be captured. Look at the Aleutian Islands if you don't believe me.

And you realize MANY more people died in the Tokyo fire raids then in both atomic bombs combined. I dont get why everyone says the atomic bombs are so bad, when they did relatively little damage. Yes they were horrible, but the good outweighed the bad.
Atomic bombs ARE bad. But they are a necessary evil. I fail to see the ignorance in mentioning how many died in the atomic bombings
They barley killed anyone in relativity. They were used as shock value, and saved more lives then they killed tenfold.
But its about the ethical reasons behind it. Atomic bombs are not used as a military target. They are used solely for the purpose of killing massive populations.


If another country was in the same situation and they used the bombs everyone would be calling them evil and murdereres. But if America does it's OK. Bunch of hypocrites.
History is written by the victor.

  • 01.03.2013 12:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: Locke357
Thanks ofr the sources. Will have to check them out in time.

All I can say now is, that there were quite a few factors into the decision to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and that there was no "one" reason why we chose to do it.

  • 01.03.2013 12:05 PM PDT

International Army for the Liberation of Hotdogs.
" The Grunt " - Death Served on A Screaming Platter!
You lack the majestic curves of a ripe banana! YOU SIR ARE A PINEAPPLE
win
Justin Bieber sounds like two high-pitched walruses engaging in sex.

Japan didn't believe America had more than one of these "city destroying" bombs. They thought they only had one, that had taken them decades to produce. They relied on the fact that it would take decades more to make another.

When America dropped the second bomb, they convinced the Japanese that they had a large stockpile of these bombs, and essentially scared them into submission.

  • 01.03.2013 12:05 PM PDT


Posted by: OdorousLicense3

Posted by: NinjaLord77
And you retaliated against innocent Afghanistanis and killed over a million of them. And killed over 700,000 Iraqis cause they "had weapons" What a peaceful nation.
Your American and you're defending the Afghani's?

Im confused.


I'm for what's right. And I don't care If I'm American I don't have to agree with what their military does. Bombing people for 11 years and for what?

  • 01.03.2013 12:05 PM PDT


Posted by: lightlamp2
But its about the ethical reasons behind it. Atomic bombs are not used as a military target. They are used solely for the purpose of killing massive populations.
First off, Hiroshima and Nagasaki both contained military installation and factories, so your already wrong. But I'm going to go and and reiterate my point since you didn't get it last time. The atomic bombs barley killed anyone (in relativity). They really weren't the greatest weapon in terms of death.

  • 01.03.2013 12:05 PM PDT
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The bombs were to show off to the Russians.

[source removed because site seems biased]

[Edited on 01.03.2013 12:07 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 12:06 PM PDT


Posted by: RockdaleRooster
Yes. Absolutely necessary.

  • 01.03.2013 12:07 PM PDT

"I will show you how a true Prussian officer fights!"

"And i will show you where the iron crosses grow..."

- "Cross of Iron"


Posted by: Sliding Ghost
The bombs were to show off to the Russians.

source


That is a blog so it isn't a true source it is based on an opinion. There were more reasons than that obviously.

  • 01.03.2013 12:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: Hayabusawarrior

Posted by: lightlamp2
But its about the ethical reasons behind it. Atomic bombs are not used as a military target. They are used solely for the purpose of killing massive populations.
First off, Hiroshima and Nagasaki both contained military installation and factories, so your already wrong. But I'm going to go and and reiterate my point since you didn't get it last time. The atomic bombs barley killed anyone (in relativity). They really weren't the greatest weapon in terms of death.
Don't try and spin it around and say it was a strategic bombing. The US used them to force Japan to surrender because killing that many civilians with two bombs is a pretty scary thing

  • 01.03.2013 12:08 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: NinjaLord77
And you retaliated against innocent Afghanistanis and killed over a million of them. And killed over 700,000 Iraqis cause they "had weapons" What a peaceful nation.


What does The Cold War and The Gulf War have to do with WWII?

Stop pulling facts out of your ass that have nothing to do with whats being discussed to try and help yourself.

  • 01.03.2013 12:08 PM PDT


Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: lightlamp2

If another country was in the same situation and they used the bombs everyone would be calling them evil and murdereres. But if America does it's OK. Bunch of hypocrites.
History is written by the victor.
Everyone here is ranting about the atomic bombs and how it was so horrible, but Japanese -blam!- of 15 million Chinese goes unmentioned. Thats hardly written by the victor.

[Edited on 01.03.2013 12:08 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 12:08 PM PDT

“If we will disbelieve everything, because we cannot certainly know all things, we shall do much what as wisely as he who would not use his legs, but sit still and perish, because he had no wings to fly.” - John Locke

"How can anyone be enlightened? Truth after all is so poorly lit." - Rush

For anyone interested, some further reading on the the Japanese decision to surrender: here

[Edited on 01.03.2013 12:09 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 12:08 PM PDT

"I will show you how a true Prussian officer fights!"

"And i will show you where the iron crosses grow..."

- "Cross of Iron"


Posted by: Hayabusawarrior

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: lightlamp2

If another country was in the same situation and they used the bombs everyone would be calling them evil and murdereres. But if America does it's OK. Bunch of hypocrites.
History is written by the victor.
Everyone here is ranting about the atomic bombs and how it was so horrible, but Japanese -blam!- of 15 million Chinese goes unmentioned. Thats hardly written by the victor.


I mentioned it but apparently America is still the greatest murderer the world has ever known. This is almost an impossible argument on here its ridiculous.

  • 01.03.2013 12:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: Hayabusawarrior

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: lightlamp2

If another country was in the same situation and they used the bombs everyone would be calling them evil and murdereres. But if America does it's OK. Bunch of hypocrites.
History is written by the victor.
Everyone here is ranting about the atomic bombs and how it was so horrible, but Japanese -blam!- of 15 million Chinese goes unmentioned. Thats hardly written by the victor.
I do not think anyone here is debating that Japan is the good guy.

  • 01.03.2013 12:10 PM PDT

"Banhammer" - Post anything on the Waypoint forums -50g
Never forget:
Porch Day
lolReach
Gen Petitt Day
Night of the Living Alts


Posted by: Hayabusawarrior

Posted by: lightlamp2

Posted by: lightlamp2

If another country was in the same situation and they used the bombs everyone would be calling them evil and murdereres. But if America does it's OK. Bunch of hypocrites.
History is written by the victor.
Everyone here is ranting about the atomic bombs and how it was so horrible, but Japanese -blam!- of 15 million Chinese goes unmentioned.
That's because most of the Flood consists of anti-american retards. What'd you expect?

  • 01.03.2013 12:10 PM PDT

Posted by: AquaBlader
Soon to be breaking news:


US Coast Guard prepares for massive rescue mission after Iranian fleet sinks off shore. Reports say a small thunderstorm caused most of the ships to simply...fall apart.

Posted by: NinjaLord77
And you retaliated against innocent Afghanistanis and killed over a million of them. And killed over 700,000 Iraqis cause they "had weapons" What a peaceful nation.

Where are you getting those numbers?

  • 01.03.2013 12:10 PM PDT