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Subject: When are we going to achieve at least realistic...
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...AI in video games?

In Reach people -blam!-ed about the echolocating Wraiths and other retarded AI features and that in general, the only thing difficult about the higher difficulties was the game throwing more and stronger bullets at you while making your enemies able to resist more damage.

H4 is more of the same.

Crysis 2 touted it's 'revolutionary AI.' I spent the entire game skipping past enemies, in front of them no less, with Camo on once I became bored of twisting off their heads like soda bottles.

When are we going to abandon this fascination with real life graphics and start focusing on developing AI that are at least passable?

When are we going to get a Halo that throws a bunch of enemies at us that use their respective strengths to utterly decimate us? When will we get Jackals who advance slowly with their shields, protecting Grunts and Rangers behind them, who form phalanxes, Brutes who rush and break our positions and/or throw Grunts at us, Drones who flank and work to invalidate cover, Elites who command units and are otherwise agile and nimble opponents?

When?

  • 01.03.2013 2:25 PM PDT

The cake is a pie

Oh hang on I'll just decode the miracle of human neurology and hammer it into C++.

  • 01.03.2013 2:26 PM PDT

Watch out. If I post in your thread, chances are it'll die. I've been cursed, and if I kill your thread, I'm sorry.

Never.

A) its too difficult to encode for all of the "what if" situations possible in every given scenario

B) the enemies would be far too difficult to fight, and the game would lose its "fun" factor.

  • 01.03.2013 2:27 PM PDT

AI is incredibly difficult.

  • 01.03.2013 2:28 PM PDT


Posted by: Ultermarto
Oh hang on I'll just decode the miracle of human neurology and hammer it into C++.


And don't forget the graphics.

  • 01.03.2013 2:28 PM PDT

If we disagree, it's nothing personal, opinions are opinions.
Antagonizing me to build a false sense of worth is so damn cute.

Brighten your day with science.

Not in a long time.

  • 01.03.2013 2:29 PM PDT

FEAR from 2005 would like to talk to you.

  • 01.03.2013 2:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ultermarto
Oh hang on I'll just decode the miracle of human neurology and hammer it into C++.

Missing the point.

At the very least, we can program guards to be more attentive and to upgrade their behavior from passive to aggressive once we've made a kill in the area.

Increase the radius of their vision cones, have them scan the area, have them start patrolling, checking obvious hiding spots, have detection based on things such as sight, sound, etc.

You expect that to happen.

[Edited on 01.03.2013 2:33 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 2:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: Please wait
the enemies would be far too difficult to fight, and the game would lose its "fun" factor.

Demons Souls
Dark Souls
Super Meat Boy

  • 01.03.2013 2:30 PM PDT

Not for at least hundreds of years.

  • 01.03.2013 2:32 PM PDT


Posted by: Methew
Posted by: Ultermarto
Oh hang on I'll just decode the miracle of human neurology and hammer it into C++.

Missing the point.

At the very least, we can program guards to be more attentive and to upgrade their behavior from passive to aggressive once we've made a kill in the area.

You expect that to happen.

FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR

Seriously, it's doable if the devs are good.

[Edited on 01.03.2013 2:34 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 2:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: Please wait
B) the enemies would be far too difficult to fight, and the game would lose its "fun" factor.
There's a reason why people prefer to play against actual players in multiplayer rather than absolutely retarded bots. Challenge is not a bad thing.

[Edited on 01.03.2013 2:35 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 2:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: Methew
When are we going to abandon this fascination with real life graphics and start focusing on developing AI that are at least passable?
Probably never. You saw the H4 trailers. Showing off assassinations and very little gameplay mechanics. And you see Halo 4 now. 343 rarely communicating with the community, pages of complaints.

The gaming world is about what's flashy. No one gives a -blam!- about gameplay as long as they get their story... and explosions!

Posted by: Methew
When are we going to get a Halo that throws a bunch of enemies at us that use their respective strengths to utterly decimate us? When will we get Jackals who advance slowly with their shields, protecting Grunts and Rangers behind them, who form phalanxes, Brutes who rush and break our positions and/or throw Grunts at us, Drones who flank and work to invalidate cover, Elites who command units and are otherwise agile and nimble opponents?

When?
Also, when are we going to get creative encounters?

Halo 4 was off to a good start then the team-up happened. Then throughout the campaign, we get the sporadic 'Knights leading Grunts' encounter and that's the only time we see them working together. There's only like 1 level where we see Elites fighting alongside Knights but it's not even coordinated and you have to skip some enemies to see it.

Never once do we see Hunters engaging them or fighting alongside them. And hell, Knights only have mix-matched weapons in Spartan Ops. We do not see them using Covie weapons (how cool it'd be to have a Knight dual wielding an energy sword with his own?) and vice versa.

There was a video in one of the vidocs that showed a Knight with a plasma pistol. Even that'd have been more interesting than a Knight substituting an Elite.

The AI in Halo can hold up to 4 weapons but as of Halo 3, they can only switch between 2. I wonder if it's possible for them to switch between all 4 in Halo 4 by now.

Posted by: Methew
Posted by: Please wait
the enemies would be far too difficult to fight, and the game would lose its "fun" factor.

Demons Souls
Dark Souls
Super Meat Boy
The skeleton enemies in Dark Souls put the Hunters to shame. Honestly, why can't Hunters jump back when we go in for a melee or try to stop/flip incoming Hogs? Because they're well armored from the front? Well fyi, a jump back could be surprising and leave the player vulnerable while intercepting a Hog would completely discourage it (since they just sit there, it only takes a few charges to splatter one with the Hog). Also, I felt they were pretty decent in Halo 3; they actually tried to avoid shots from the fuel rod gun.

[Edited on 01.03.2013 2:59 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 2:54 PM PDT

The game wuld be impossible when all AIs are the same difficulty as people you fight in Matchmaking...

  • 01.03.2013 2:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: bergXX09

Posted by: Methew
Posted by: Ultermarto
Oh hang on I'll just decode the miracle of human neurology and hammer it into C++.

Missing the point.

At the very least, we can program guards to be more attentive and to upgrade their behavior from passive to aggressive once we've made a kill in the area.

You expect that to happen.

FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR

Seriously, it's doable if the devs are good.

I really wish the ports to XBox were good, and that the sequel and triquel were good.

  • 01.03.2013 3:14 PM PDT
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The fact that they can do what they have done with AI is nothing short of a miracle. It will get more advanced as time progresses.

  • 01.03.2013 3:18 PM PDT
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Writer's Corner
6/15/2011 11:39 PM: bobcast [2597260] issued a 3 day ban expiring on 6/18/2011 11:39 PM.
Reason: A Bungie.net Forum Moderator has banned you for violating the code of conduct and/or rules of the forum in the thread below
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=61704535
Inappropriate. Went a little to far with the butt hole tearing.

Was I the only one hoping for a thread about boobs in videogames?

  • 01.03.2013 3:19 PM PDT


Posted by: Methew
Posted by: Ultermarto
Oh hang on I'll just decode the miracle of human neurology and hammer it into C++.

Missing the point.

At the very least, we can program guards to be more attentive and to upgrade their behavior from passive to aggressive once we've made a kill in the area.

Increase the radius of their vision cones, have them scan the area, have them start patrolling, checking obvious hiding spots, have detection based on things such as sight, sound, etc.

Assassins creed would like to talk to you.
You expect that to happen.

  • 01.03.2013 3:19 PM PDT

Respect skill, Not rank.

http://fcwars.net/


Posted by: Methew
Posted by: Ultermarto
Oh hang on I'll just decode the miracle of human neurology and hammer it into C++.

Missing the point.

At the very least, we can program guards to be more attentive and to upgrade their behavior from passive to aggressive once we've made a kill in the area.

Increase the radius of their vision cones, have them scan the area, have them start patrolling, checking obvious hiding spots, have detection based on things such as sight, sound, etc.

You expect that to happen.


indeed, i hate playing stealth games where the entire strategy is to kill someone from a distance, the guards look about, and then just chill like nothing ever happened after a minute of looking around in circles. Especially since so many of them make no-detection plays impossible.

  • 01.03.2013 3:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: overlordofkill
Assassins creed would like to talk to you.

All of my no.

Guard A: Hey, that suspicious guy that just tried to walk into the city who we turned away is trying to walk into the city with that group of monks.

Guard B: Yeah that's cool.

Guard A: What? Why would it be okay now?! It's the same guy!

Guard B: No it's not, that's another monk.

Guard A: Oh, now that you say it like that, that totally makes sense.

*Altair shivs both of them in the neck after he passes.*

Altair: -blam!- morons.

  • 01.03.2013 3:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: petitminou
Was I the only one hoping for a thread about boobs in videogames?

I look at Dead or Alive: Extreme Beach Volleyball 2 and I see huge flesh colored balloons stuffed into skimpy clothing, not breasts.

Newsflash Japan: BOOBS DON'T MOVE IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS FROM EACH OTHER LIKE EYES ON A CHAMELEON.

  • 01.03.2013 3:28 PM PDT

Never.

Games are being made for simple minded people and to make it all look nice and flashy, rather than work on gameplay.

  • 01.03.2013 3:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: Methew
Increase the radius of their vision cones, have them scan the area, have them start patrolling, checking obvious hiding spots, have detection based on things such as sight, sound, etc.
This is going to be hard to believe, but the Brutes in Halo 3 are aware of their allies if you silently kill them and their body goes right through them or lands in front of them. And if they haven't spotted you, they'll run right up to their ally's corpse and observe it (if only they'd pay their respects like the Elites do... then they'd be convincing).

In Halo 2, you had to turn on Armory for something like this to occur.

With Reach, it has since been discarded. What a downgrade!

[Edited on 01.03.2013 3:34 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 3:33 PM PDT

The world is not beautiful: And that, in a way, lends it a sort of beauty.

~Kino's Journey


Posted by: Methew
Dark Souls
Just something i'd like to add, why can't we have AI behavior change depending on what weapon your using? like if you have a flame thrower or a shotgun then every soldier is going to high tail it out of there the second they see you, not stand there shooting(or worse, charge you head on).

Also, i quoted Dark souls because i saw a glimpse of this in Anor Londo, changing from a great shield to a regular shield meant that my blocks no longer staggered silver knights, causing them to attack more frequently(and because the shield was weaker, my stamina drained a lot more and the fight dynamic was almost completely changed), why can't we see more of this AI counterplay?

  • 01.03.2013 3:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Posted by: Methew
Increase the radius of their vision cones, have them scan the area, have them start patrolling, checking obvious hiding spots, have detection based on things such as sight, sound, etc.
This is going to be hard to believe, but the Brutes in Halo 3 are aware of their allies if you silently kill them and their body goes right through them or lands in front of them. And if they haven't spotted you, they'll run right up to their ally's corpse and observe it (if only they'd pay their respects like the Elites do... then they'd be convincing).

In Halo 2, you had to turn on Armory for something like this to occur.

With Reach, it has since been discarded. What a downgrade!

The infuriating part about this is that the technology is capable of doing it, at what cost I do not know but I digress.

In Dishonored enemies have vision cones and won't see you unless unless they actually look at you. In Reach if you've been spotted and sneak around and then look at the enemies from behind, they'll magically turn around and start shooting at you. In Mark of the Ninja, sound can betray your presence and make guards look at the direction it came from.

Yet in the new Hitman game, sneaking around with a sledgehammer as a cop in front of a cop in tall grass isn't suspicious. Soon as you leave the grass though all bets are off.

How hard would it be to add these things to current games? How hard would it be to program two sets of patrol routes for enemies, a relaxed and an aggressive one. How hard would it be to have a "Hey is that something over there?" range on sight/sound locks and a "ENEMY! KILL IT!" range?

[Edited on 01.03.2013 3:43 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2013 3:42 PM PDT

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