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Subject: High Charity--More than meets the eye
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Once again, brilliant.
it's threads like these that keep my hope in b.net and humanity's general reasoning power!

  • 07.07.2006 8:25 PM PDT
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great job took me a while to read it all but great job it deffently makes u think

  • 07.07.2006 8:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Blue Rexx
Posted by: Hoplite A2
Im a Christian so this is really cool! I like how Bungie ties in Philosophy with their games. : )
Especially if its the single greatest book ever created and compiled. It's neat that bungie equates so much of their games and ancient writings. I like, I like... Good research! ; )

Don't get your Christian panties in a bunch. Bungie uses lots of mythology - Christian, Norse, Greek, etc.
OWNED.

Oh, and Hoplite, I've read better books.

  • 07.07.2006 9:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: Blue Rexx
Posted by: Hoplite A2
Im a Christian so this is really cool! I like how Bungie ties in Philosophy with their games. : )
Especially if its the single greatest book ever created and compiled. It's neat that bungie equates so much of their games and ancient writings. I like, I like... Good research! ; )

Don't get your Christian panties in a bunch. Bungie uses lots of mythology - Christian, Norse, Greek, etc.
OWNED.

Oh, and Hoplite, I've read better books.

You don't have to be "driven away" from a game just because it has Biblical allegory. Yes, Bungie does include allegory from other religions/myths, but don't Christian-bash because someone is happy for the Christian links. I'm a Christian too, and I'm not here to convert anyone. Believe what you will, but let us believe what we want too.

  • 07.07.2006 9:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: Zerodev
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: Blue Rexx
Posted by: Hoplite A2
Im a Christian so this is really cool! I like how Bungie ties in Philosophy with their games. : )
Especially if its the single greatest book ever created and compiled. It's neat that bungie equates so much of their games and ancient writings. I like, I like... Good research! ; )

Don't get your Christian panties in a bunch. Bungie uses lots of mythology - Christian, Norse, Greek, etc.
OWNED.

Oh, and Hoplite, I've read better books.

You don't have to be "driven away" from a game just because it has Biblical allegory. Yes, Bungie does include allegory from other religions/myths, but don't Christian-bash because someone is happy for the Christian links. I'm a Christian too, and I'm not here to convert anyone. Believe what you will, but let us believe what we want too.
Did it sound like I was trying to bash...? If it did, I didn't mean it that way. It just doesn't tickle my fancy when someone says that the bible is the best book ever written.

  • 07.07.2006 9:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: Zerodev
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: Blue Rexx
Posted by: Hoplite A2
Im a Christian so this is really cool! I like how Bungie ties in Philosophy with their games. : )
Especially if its the single greatest book ever created and compiled. It's neat that bungie equates so much of their games and ancient writings. I like, I like... Good research! ; )

Don't get your Christian panties in a bunch. Bungie uses lots of mythology - Christian, Norse, Greek, etc.
OWNED.

Oh, and Hoplite, I've read better books.

You don't have to be "driven away" from a game just because it has Biblical allegory. Yes, Bungie does include allegory from other religions/myths, but don't Christian-bash because someone is happy for the Christian links. I'm a Christian too, and I'm not here to convert anyone. Believe what you will, but let us believe what we want too.
Did it sound like I was trying to bash...? If it did, I didn't mean it that way. It just doesn't tickle my fancy when someone says that the bible is the best book ever written.

Ok, well, I suppose it is a matter of opinion. To be fair, the Bible is the best-selling and most-printed book in the history of mankind, by far. If we went by those facts, you could say it is the greatest book ever written.

  • 07.07.2006 9:53 PM PDT
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Ugh, how come whenever someone mentions the Bible people have to come in and take little stabs at them? It's just ridiculous. Any (well crafted) work is subject to all kinds of interpretations, be it Norse, Greek, Judeo-Christian, Hindu, Marxist, whatever. That's what great works do, they strike chords that let you dissect them from different angle. If people find Biblical ties, that shouldn't make you think they are freaks, but rather, Halo is a game that like a great film or good book, rings true from many different angles. It should make you appreciate Halo more.

Anywho, great research on that one. In particular, the shield and sword bits are very interesting. I'm also enjoying the ties between the Moabites and the Israelites. I'm wondering what the basis is for the Covenant hatred of humanity. It has never really been stated in either the books or the game where it all comes down to. Basically, we are heretics to them, but why? I'd be interested to find stories in different traditions that maybe hint at this reasoning, or will help find some clues that are left in Halo.

  • 07.07.2006 10:53 PM PDT
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I'm looking at this game a whole different way now.
Keep on with the research... I'm really enjoying this.

  • 07.07.2006 11:17 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

Posted by: Pwnocchio
Ugh, how come whenever someone mentions the Bible people have to come in and take little stabs at them? It's just ridiculous. Any (well crafted) work is subject to all kinds of interpretations, be it Norse, Greek, Judeo-Christian, Hindu, Marxist, whatever. That's what great works do, they strike chords that let you dissect them from different angle. If people find Biblical ties, that shouldn't make you think they are freaks, but rather, Halo is a game that like a great film or good book, rings true from many different angles. It should make you appreciate Halo more.

Anywho, great research on that one. In particular, the shield and sword bits are very interesting. I'm also enjoying the ties between the Moabites and the Israelites. I'm wondering what the basis is for the Covenant hatred of humanity. It has never really been stated in either the books or the game where it all comes down to. Basically, we are heretics to them, but why? I'd be interested to find stories in different traditions that maybe hint at this reasoning, or will help find some clues that are left in Halo.

I guess that there are just people who seek to be offended.
In my "Forerunner and a Prophet" thread back in Oct. 2004, there were people on both ends of the Spiritual spectrum that had a fit about what I wrote.

I suppose people are bored and need a reason to be up in arms.

  • 07.08.2006 3:37 PM PDT
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Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I posted a related theory with research here. I hope you enjoy it.

  • 07.10.2006 8:22 AM PDT

This theory sucked. you suck.




Joking ^_^

That was a well put together and overall a good read. Well done, keep it up.

  • 07.10.2006 9:45 AM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

Posted by: Mogarr
good research. But it looks more like High Charity was built by the covenet.

Whether or not the covenant built it, all of their advanced technology has come from the forerunners.

  • 07.11.2006 6:02 AM PDT

Posted by: IceWeasel
Posted by: Mogarr
good research. But it looks more like High Charity was built by the covenet.

Whether or not the covenant built it, all of their advanced technology has come from the forerunners.


True, Maybe the Covenant built HC (very plausable), but it did use the Forerunner ship in the middle of it.

And yes, Halo is based upon many mythological elements. But the fact also is, that the most important features of it (Ark, Covenant, the Flood) are based upon facts from the Bible: Ark (either Noah's or the Ark of the Covenant)
Covenant: as in Ark of the Covenant
the Flood: the Great Flood of Noah...........
But then, The Covenant sees anything that doesnt believe its religion as heretics. That ties in better with the Islam, who sees non-believers as being nothings........
anyways, good theory.

PS>
Does anyone else think the Unyielding Hierophant from First Strike was like High Charity???? They seem so similar in description of shape.

  • 07.11.2006 6:28 AM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

Well when Christianity first sprouted, the Jewish pharisees wanted to wipe them out.
That ties into an idea I've had when the Arbiter goes out on that heretic hunt, but in the end realizes the truth.
The phariesees sent Saul out to kill Christians, and he did. On the road to Damascus he was blinded, then after a couple days he himself became a Christian when "something like scales" fell from his eyes.

Saul/Paul and the Arbiter have a little bit in common.

The elites are blind! But I will make them see.

  • 07.11.2006 6:35 AM PDT
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Wow, the Saul/Paul/Arbiter connection is very...astute. As soon as I read your comment though, I instantly thought about the reason for the prophets hating Humans enough to call for complete extermination. Something about us threatened their religion right? It's an exact parallel to Israel/Pharisees in the time of the Roman Empire. The empire collected and assimilated anyone who they came across, they never completely exterminated them. When Christianity began, the Jews viewed Christians as a threat to their religion and called for the murder of all Christians. The whole empire eventually helped enforce this because they also saw Christianity's growing momentum as a threat. In the same way, the prophets see something about humanity that would jeapordize their religion, ::insert forerunner = human speculation here :: and call for a war with not even a whisper of negotiation.

P.S. DonVinzone1, to answer your question, yes! I think that UY was the same as High Charity.

  • 07.11.2006 9:33 AM PDT

Posted by: IceWeasel
Well when Christianity first sprouted, the Jewish pharisees wanted to wipe them out.
That ties into an idea I've had when the Arbiter goes out on that heretic hunt, but in the end realizes the truth.
The phariesees sent Saul out to kill Christians, and he did. On the road to Damascus he was blinded, then after a couple days he himself became a Christian when "something like scales" fell from his eyes.

Saul/Paul and the Arbiter have a little bit in common.

The elites are blind! But I will make them see.


Damn.....I guess your right. I never though of it that way. I thought that if Halo took fromt he Bible, it would be based largely upon the tale of Noahs Ark, not about Saul and the Jews......man...I think you might found something interesting here.

And its good to know I aint the only one thinking HC is the same as UH. Only, UH was like 2 Charity's combined with the small ends....who knows, maybe there are more.....

  • 07.12.2006 12:11 PM PDT
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DMUKYA
Proud member of Eagle 117's theory group, The Watchers
Another great theorist group is Avignon
Interested in the mysteries within all of Bungie's games? Check out Theory of Unification
For the Biblical allegorist in you, there's מִכְמַן
Enjoy reading or writing sci-fi or fantasy? Come to New Horizons

I think that the Prophets are going to become desperate and go to their sanctuary (Halo) to pray (and subsequently activate Halo) and not prevail (die…and take everyone with them).
Is it necessary for them to activate the Halos for the statement to still fit? Couldn't their failure actually be the Halos not being activated? Their praying is the actual activation of the rings and their failure is when they are stopped by someone.

  • 07.12.2006 12:21 PM PDT
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Very keen observation. In my studying of different areas of the Bible recently, I completely agree with you. I think either the fact that the Covenant aren't reclaimers/MC "bustin' up sum fools" will fulfill this prophecy. When the sermon is complete, I think that they will be rather disappointed when the magic boom boom doesn't work.

  • 07.13.2006 1:38 PM PDT

I was thinking about this whole Saul story yesterday, and about how it could be connected in someway to the Ark. It might be wrong (most likely hehehe xD), but I dont really care.
Ok, so if I am right, what we said about Saul comes down to the following:

The story of the Arbiter is a sci-fi version of a Biblical story. In the Bible, you had the leaders of the Jews. They saw the new Christian religion as a thread to theirs. We know what they did to Jesus for that. But, after Jesus' death, they send a man named Saul to find and stop the Christians. Saul was then converted by God to be a christian.

In Halo terms this is:
The Prophets came to know the Humans. They saw them as a thread to their religion. In an attempt to kill an important human "leader" (MC) they send an Arbiter to kill him. BUT, this Arbiter was converted and saw the mistakes of his previous believes.


Now, expanding on this.
Christianity and the Jewish believes come from one same believe (Jewish). They are both originally the same people, all ascendants from Adam and Eve.
Somewhere in time, there was the Great Flood. It killed all live on Earth. But God had made sure that of all species 2 would survive in the Ark. After that, ist took hundreds of years before the new people would split up.

In Halo terms:
Humanity and Covenant have different believes. The can be ascendants from the same ancestors: The Forerunner. Somewhere in the past of the Halo Universe, there had been a break-out of The Flood. It killed all sentient live in the galaxy, except for some survivers who sought shelter in the Ark. After that, they split and evolved into different groups, who came to hate each other.

Role of Gravemind.
In the Bible, God uses the Great Flood to clean the Earth of all that disobeyed his commandements. (Hinduism also speaks of a Great Flood, and a boat that saved some of the people/gods)
Now, Gravemind is "a monument to all our sins" right? The sins refer to the disobeying of the religion of the Forerunner. Both Covenant and Human stepped away from it (Covenant now do not know the true purpose of the Rings anymore, and the Humans forgot about them fully). There has been a great Flood once cleaning the galaxy, followed by the activation of the Halos to stop the Flood (from destroying everything???) If this is right, than I draw the following conclusion.

the Forerunner had an original religion. Somewhere they, or any other species did something that was against their religion. This refers to the sins. It possibly (most likely) had something to do with the Flood. Anyways, it was followed by the Flood breaking out, and eventually by it consuming most of the sentient live, before being stopped by the devine powers of the Halos.
After that, some survived in the Ark (probably on Earth)
What does this mean? Simply that if you devy the powers of the Halo's and Forerunners. If you dont believe their real purpose; a Flood will come to clean the Galaxy of your ignorence. This flood is lead by something that resembles the punishment for your ignorence. And it comes in the shape of Gravemind leading the Flood.
And the Ark? It is most likely a save haven on Earth. The only place in the Galaxy that saves you from the wrath of the Forerunner (who see themselfs as Gods maybe???)

I know this theory leaves much to answer, and it isnt complete at many points. But I think it is interesting at some points. Altough it might be completely wrong, who knows.

  • 07.14.2006 1:31 AM PDT

Wiplash ll7, bow chica bow wow

plz can we stop with this stupid annoiing bible crap its all load of bullsh1t

  • 07.14.2006 1:33 AM PDT
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Well, I've never been much for the Noah's Flood theory, but I think you have some interesting points. I think that Bungie took a larger view of the Bible in relation to Halo. I like the Ark of the Covenant theory, but who's to say (at this point at least) that elements of Noah's Ark and God's Ark couldn't be incoporated in Halo 3?

  • 07.14.2006 8:28 AM PDT
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DMUKYA
Proud member of Eagle 117's theory group, The Watchers
Another great theorist group is Avignon
Interested in the mysteries within all of Bungie's games? Check out Theory of Unification
For the Biblical allegorist in you, there's מִכְמַן
Enjoy reading or writing sci-fi or fantasy? Come to New Horizons

I think they already have used Noah's Ark in Halo... at least in the backstory.

  • 07.14.2006 6:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: DonVinzone1

Does anyone else think the Unyielding Hierophant from First Strike was like High Charity???? They seem so similar in description of shape.

Well I imagined the Unyielding Hierophant to be more of a ship than a planetoid (granted its shape was described to be quite odd).

  • 07.15.2006 8:14 PM PDT

Posted by: S2K ViP3R
there is not point in saying hey i got a 40- HIGH RANK MEANS NOTHING, it means you either bridged host or cheated...and the skillfull player like myself have 27s cause of cheating.

Gamertag: StlcKs <-- i is an "L"

Yeah that a great post that took a lot of time and energy to do, real good stuff.

  • 07.15.2006 8:40 PM PDT

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