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  • Subject: A bit of an adult question. What responsibility do I have?
Subject: A bit of an adult question. What responsibility do I have?

Posted by: A sweet noob
Ah, the internet. Where men are men, women are men, and children are the FBI.


Posted by: Binman59

Posted by: Xx idunno xX
but I think it would be a nice thing to do, assuming she doesnt want like $10K.


I don't, it seems like she's selling her child to solve her problems.
Actually, having read over some other comments, you may be right. I grew up in a family that was a bit more generous with money, so that is the first thing that came to me, but yeah, the woman is probably just a crazy ho.

  • 01.06.2013 9:15 AM PDT
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GT: Clerks

Good on you for adopting.

I am sure you and your wife are considerate and caring people, and I am sure it is hard to be faced with human need/suffering and not try to lend some help.

I am sorry, though, but your responsibility is to this child. I believe in giving to the needy, yes, but in this case, doing so could get you in trouble or get the child taken away from you if a judge made a call about your fitness as parents.

My advice: send her information about how she can get help. Or, if you have any friends that can hire her, even for some small domestic chores, consider that option.

  • 01.06.2013 9:16 AM PDT

When I was adopted, my parents gave my biological mother some money to help her out.

I think that giving someone a gift is different than payment if the gift is not a condition to the adoption.

Obviously you don't have any legal obligation to give the biological mother money. If you feel that you have a moral obligation to do so, then that's your call.

  • 01.06.2013 9:16 AM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

Please allow me to introduce Myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith


Posted by: Recon Number 54

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie

Posted by: Recon Number 54
All 3 adoptions in my family (my mom, one of my sisters, and myself) were through a state adoption agency and there was no contact or awareness (in either direction) of any of the parties involved. The agency was the only entity who knew the players and were obligated by law not to release the information of one to the other.

I would imagine how prior knowledge and contact with the parties could easily messy, awkward and uncomfortable.

I don't have any advice other than I wish that you had been able to get into an arrangement that was less.... complicated.


We're using a state agency, but completely closed adoptions aren't that common. We created a special email address that's monitored by the agency.

It still seems to me that by allowing this sort of prior (and likely ongoing) contact, you are not going to have any real chance of raising this child as their sole parents and the birth parents are now, and appear likely to persist in injecting themselves and their claims of standing and entitlement into the life of you, your family and the child.

If this is a state agency, then they should have protocols, standards and been exposed to and already through anything from the smoothest to the most tragic and awkward situations and be able to respond and control this situation. If they are not establishing themselves as the mediators, I would be having all sorts of alarm bells going off that by adopting the child, you are also adopting their parent and siblings.

That's not adoption, that is a forced addition of others into your family.


The agency is doing a pretty good job here. They have advised us to not pay her anything, for the obvious reasons, and they have asked her to come into their office to discuss her living expenses. We've already paid into an account, controlled by the agency, to pay for some living expenses and medical costs.

As far as the communications go, she was limited to letters, but we asked for email as it doesn't take so long to get them to us.

  • 01.06.2013 9:21 AM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

You know what? It is a matter of how you are going to look at or rationalize the money.

If it is a hardship on you, then clearly the answer should be no, because you are going to be dedicating and focusing your resources on the baby.

If you do have the means, then it's a matter of how you are going to spin it in your own head, and whether or not you care about how she is going to spin it in hers.

Something palatable yet practical? It's a bonus and a "thank you" to her for staying substance free for the sake of the baby's health.

Something that allows you to feel charitable? Perhaps with this money she will be able to have a better life from this point forward.

Something that allows you to feel morally superior? Well, we saved the child and her putting a price on it shows us even more that she wouldn't have been as good a parent or provided as good an environment as we can and will.

And so on. There's lots of ways and reasons that people can come up with to say no or yes. IMO, the agency had no business allowing you to be put into this position in the first place and I would be furious with them.

  • 01.06.2013 9:23 AM PDT

BE HUMAN

Fight for Earth. Fight for Humanity.


Posted by: grey101
Clearly buying a human isn't morally correct.


How about trading one for an iPod?

  • 01.06.2013 9:24 AM PDT
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Of course not. And keep in mind that someone this poor could attempt suing for trying to purchase the baby. Although you're not, this lady very easily could try something like that.

If you want to know my honest opinion, I would say back out of the entire adoption. It sounds like it's going to cause a lot of problems.

  • 01.06.2013 9:24 AM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

Please allow me to introduce Myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith

Recon, the agency didn't put is in this position. The birth mom did. The agency said we can't even pay her directly. What we are wrestling with is if we have any responsibility beyond what we've already done. Do we have any responsibility to our child's siblings.

  • 01.06.2013 9:27 AM PDT
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Hello, Hola, Velkomin, Bienvenue, Kon'nichiwa,
sorry I don't remember the rest

I would not give her anything. She is asking for money now, if you're to give it to her, whose to say she won't ask again in the future?

  • 01.06.2013 9:28 AM PDT

"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened."
- Dr. Seuss


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Some of you may know that Mrs Charlie and I are adopting. Well, we got an email from the birth mom a few days ago, and it looks like she is hitting us up for money. Now, to be fair, she is pretty poor. That's one of the reasons she is putting this child up for adoption.

So, she sends this email, and now we don't know what to do. The law states we can't make any payment directly to her, as that could be taken as us purchasing a baby, instead of adopting it. Do we have any responsibility to her beyond what the law and our agreement with the adoption agency states?

I am talking morally, not legally.

Charlie, make sure you know every behavior this child exhibits. My parents adopted a boy who has Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), and it was just...awful. He'd hit us, spit at us, throw things at us, etc.. We eventually returned him back to the state, we couldn't handle the abuse.

Make sure you know what you're getting, Charlie.

  • 01.06.2013 9:28 AM PDT


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Recon, the agency didn't put is in this position. The birth mom did. The agency said we can't even pay her directly. What we are wrestling with is if we have any responsibility beyond what we've already done. Do we have any responsibility to our child's siblings.


In the end, no one but you can decide what your moral responsibilities are.

  • 01.06.2013 9:30 AM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Recon, the agency didn't put is in this position. The birth mom did. The agency said we can't even pay her directly. What we are wrestling with is if we have any responsibility beyond what we've already done. Do we have any responsibility to our child's siblings.

Sorry, but I disagree. By allowing private communications between the parties, they allowed an atmosphere where one party could say something that allows the other party to feel as if they are being coerced, blackmailed, or otherwise required to act outside of the pre-agreed conditions of the adoption.

IMO, both parties should have agreed and the agency should have suggested, that all interparty communications should not only go through the agency, but the agency would view those communications for appropriateness and legality.

Seriously, in a way, you guys are feeling "sort of blackmailed", aren't you? Don't sugar coat it, don't spin it, you are wondering if the baby or its health is being held hostage, yes or no?

  • 01.06.2013 9:33 AM PDT

Gamertag: DoughBoyFresh54...

From a pure moral standpoint, any time someone asks you for money when they need it, you should be wanting and willing to help.

  • 01.06.2013 9:34 AM PDT

Don't give her money because she could use that to buy what she wants as opposed to what she needs. Buy her some clothes or food stuffs if anything. Or find out what she needs and get that.

  • 01.06.2013 9:35 AM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

Please allow me to introduce Myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith


Posted by: Recon Number 54

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Recon, the agency didn't put is in this position. The birth mom did. The agency said we can't even pay her directly. What we are wrestling with is if we have any responsibility beyond what we've already done. Do we have any responsibility to our child's siblings.

Sorry, but I disagree. By allowing private communications between the parties, they allowed an atmosphere where one party could say something that allows the other party to feel as if they are being coerced, blackmailed, or otherwise required to act outside of the pre-agreed conditions of the adoption.

IMO, both parties should have agreed and the agency should have suggested, that all interparty communications should not only go through the agency, but the agency would view those communications for appropriateness and legality.

Seriously, in a way, you guys are feeling "sort of blackmailed", aren't you? Don't sugar coat it, don't spin it, you are wondering if the baby or its health is being held hostage, yes or no?


We are. And we discussed this last night.

In the agency's defense, the email address used to send us stuff is monitored, and they told us not to pay her within hours of her asking. The law states that they can't limit her communication with us. They can only scrub out stuff like last names, addresses and such. But if she wants us to hear something, she has a right to say it.

[Edited on 01.06.2013 9:42 AM PST]

  • 01.06.2013 9:42 AM PDT

I thought you guys adopted a long time ago. And morally speaking, I'd give her some money to help her out. She's clearly in a bad place, so I don't see much reason not to assist her a bit.

  • 01.06.2013 9:44 AM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Recon, the agency didn't put is in this position. The birth mom did. The agency said we can't even pay her directly. What we are wrestling with is if we have any responsibility beyond what we've already done. Do we have any responsibility to our child's siblings.
Sorry, but I disagree. By allowing private communications between the parties, they allowed an atmosphere where one party could say something that allows the other party to feel as if they are being coerced, blackmailed, or otherwise required to act outside of the pre-agreed conditions of the adoption.

IMO, both parties should have agreed and the agency should have suggested, that all interparty communications should not only go through the agency, but the agency would view those communications for appropriateness and legality.

Seriously, in a way, you guys are feeling "sort of blackmailed", aren't you? Don't sugar coat it, don't spin it, you are wondering if the baby or its health is being held hostage, yes or no?
We are. And we discussed this last night.

In the agency's defense, the email address used to send us stuff is monitored, and they told us not to pay her within hours of her asking. The law states that they can't limit her communication with us. They can only scrub out stuff like last names, addresses and such. But if she wants us to hear something, she has aright to say it.

Then dude, I would take all of it down, store it and hide it so that the child has little chance of ever seeing it, and not reply with anything other than what the terms of the adoption agreement require.

If you want, and this is a middle-of-the-road compromise, respond to the bio-mother that you are grateful for the effort and perseverance that it has taken so far and you appreciate that she wants to make sure that the baby and she are as healthy as possible for the birth. That you are under the impression the agency is taking care of her (and the baby's) needs, but to thank her for the additional effort, AFTER the birth, when the baby is healthy and in your arms, you would consider paying her a bonus for her extra consideration and care to herself and the unborn child.

However, your offer is a one-time offer, non-negotiable, and if she accepts, no further conversations along these lines. If other attempts are made to elicit more money or compensation, then the "bonus" offer is then withdrawn.

In other words, you take her blackmail and you leverage it into insurance and a dangled carrot.

  • 01.06.2013 9:48 AM PDT

Studies show that men think about sex every 7 seconds. I do my best to eat hotdogs in under 6, just so things don't get weird.

Please allow me to introduce Myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith


Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Recon, the agency didn't put is in this position. The birth mom did. The agency said we can't even pay her directly. What we are wrestling with is if we have any responsibility beyond what we've already done. Do we have any responsibility to our child's siblings.
Sorry, but I disagree. By allowing private communications between the parties, they allowed an atmosphere where one party could say something that allows the other party to feel as if they are being coerced, blackmailed, or otherwise required to act outside of the pre-agreed conditions of the adoption.

IMO, both parties should have agreed and the agency should have suggested, that all interparty communications should not only go through the agency, but the agency would view those communications for appropriateness and legality.

Seriously, in a way, you guys are feeling "sort of blackmailed", aren't you? Don't sugar coat it, don't spin it, you are wondering if the baby or its health is being held hostage, yes or no?
We are. And we discussed this last night.

In the agency's defense, the email address used to send us stuff is monitored, and they told us not to pay her within hours of her asking. The law states that they can't limit her communication with us. They can only scrub out stuff like last names, addresses and such. But if she wants us to hear something, she has aright to say it.

Then dude, I would take all of it down, store it and hide it so that the child has little chance of ever seeing it, and not reply with anything other than what the terms of the adoption agreement require.

If you want, and this is a middle-of-the-road compromise, respond to the bio-mother that you are grateful for the effort and perseverance that it has taken so far and you appreciate that she wants to make sure that the baby and she are as healthy as possible for the birth. That you are under the impression the agency is taking care of her (and the baby's) needs, but to thank her for the additional effort, AFTER the birth, when the baby is healthy and in your arms, you would consider paying her a bonus for her extra consideration and care to herself and the unborn child.

However, your offer is a one-time offer, non-negotiable, and if she accepts, no further conversations along these lines. If other attempts are made to elicit more money or compensation, then the "bonus" offer is then withdrawn.

In other words, you take her blackmail and you leverage it into insurance and a dangled carrot.


Well, as far as that goes, even if we wanted to give her money, we can't. Both the law and our contract with the agency prohibit this. I don't believe we can even give her a Push Gift, as that could be taken as a form of payment.

So, she won't and can't see a dime without it first passing through the agency's hands, and then being assigned to a specific cost related to the health or birth of the baby.

You are right though, it does feel like a hostage situation a bit. But we couldn't pay her anyways.

But you don't feel we owe anything to our son's brothers and sisters? I know we aren't adopting her whole family, but those other kids are our sons biological brothers and sisters.

  • 01.06.2013 10:05 AM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
But you don't feel we owe anything to our son's brothers and sisters? I know we aren't adopting her whole family, but those other kids are our sons biological brothers and sisters.

As far as that goes? My guess is that you are going to raise your new son and educate him as to what adoption means and how it brought him into your family.

Then, as he grows, if he expresses a curiousity and interest in learning about his biologic roots and even the people that represents, you would (I would imagine) allow it and do your best to make sure that his investigation and contact was safe and non-harmful.

If then, through your son, you had an opportunity to open your family even more to his biologic family, IMO that would be the best and most appropriate time to do so.

My mother and sister found their bio-families and to one extent or another, they are now intertwined with ours. Family is a very organic thing and tends to defy the structures we want to impose on it. You are probably going to have these folks in your life sooner or later. I would encourage you to make a strong and healthy family of your own first.

  • 01.06.2013 10:12 AM PDT

Posted by: The Kangol Kid
It was then that I decided he really is like semen(everywhere) and I gave up on life.


zoobkillerninja <3


Posted by: MyNameIsCharlie
Recon, the agency didn't put is in this position. The birth mom did. The agency said we can't even pay her directly. What we are wrestling with is if we have any responsibility beyond what we've already done. Do we have any responsibility to our child's siblings.
I would never allow myself to have the responsibility of helping out my adopted child's siblings, in any way. I think it's absurd, honestly, for her to even "hit you up" for anything.

  • 01.06.2013 10:15 AM PDT


Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
I wouldn't see why you have a responsibility...you're already promising to raise her child for the rest of his/her life. Seems like you're doing them a huge favor already.

You should tell her it's inappropriate to ask for money when it's against the law.
This.

  • 01.06.2013 10:33 AM PDT
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All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.


Posted by: crazyfoomandude

Posted by: grey101
Clearly buying a human isn't morally correct.


How about trading one for an iPod?
Which generation?

  • 01.06.2013 10:39 AM PDT

Cool Story bro, tell it again.

What is this the 1800's and below?

  • 01.06.2013 10:40 AM PDT

I say don't buy the baby. It's not only illegal but also morally wrong in every way possible. Are we just going to allow women to give birth and then sell their kids for some more money? That's completely -blam!- up. Putting kids into adoption was meant for people who are unable to properly care for those kids. They do it for the betterment of those children, not to get rid of annoying inconvenience and certainly not to make some extra dough.

With that said if you are able to convince the mother to not demand money, then by all means, adopt the child.

[Edited on 01.06.2013 10:47 AM PST]

  • 01.06.2013 10:46 AM PDT
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Absolutely none. You're already going to take care of her child in her place, and think about the precedent it would set if mothers could get payed for having children.

Not only that, but also if you're communicating solely through email, you really don't know anything about this person other than what she tells you, like what she's going to use the money for or how she many try to work herself into your life if you agree. Her message saying how she thinks you can "solve all her life's problems" is especially worrisome.

As for the brothers and sisters, as far as i'm concerned all that really matters in a family is who raises you. As a child of a single parent i can definately say my stepfather is more of a real parent than my biological father, genetic connections don't matter as much as emotional bonds.

[Edited on 01.06.2013 11:03 AM PST]

  • 01.06.2013 10:58 AM PDT