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Subject: Does this generation value education enough?

I don't think anything has changed, there have always been kids who push themselves with their education and there have always been kids who simply don't. It's not like the discrepancy between these two groups has suddenly exploded in the last decade or so, if anything the opportunity to attain a higher education has simply become easier in the last few decades as society has moved forwards.

  • 01.08.2013 1:27 AM PDT

Posted by: Dropship dude
No, acnboy. Spartain Ken 15 is a lesser being. Much like the bacteria that lives in your shi­t.
Posted by: mike120593
My shi­t bacteria takes offense to that comparison.

Don't make me lel. You won't like me when I lel.

It seems like this line of thought is always spurred from looking back with a bit more wisdom than you had when you were back in school. Especially if you were a high-performer. When in school as a high performer you tend to forget about people who you never see in classes (the ones that take low level math, english, no science classes), but when you view the whole grade as a whole your perspective is soured a lot.

It really has always been this way (okay, not forever but definitely for decades), it's just that nobody notices until they get out of it.

  • 01.08.2013 1:32 AM PDT

Citizens of Me! The cruelty of the old Pharaoh is a thing of the past. Let a whole new wave of cruelty wash over this lazy land.

Hear the word of Pharaoh. Build unto me a statue of ridiculous proportion. One billion cubits in height......that I might be remembered for all eternity!

And be quick about it!

Kids probably don't value school enough these days, at least not in high school.

I found the actual schoolwork in elementary school very difficult to get into, because it all seemed so pointless. But come high school, things were suddenly interesting, and I realized I liked school.

Perhaps making elementary school more interesting and meaningful would help to counter the issue?

  • 01.08.2013 1:38 AM PDT

Dating Age

For those looking to vent, get proper advice, or give it to those in need.


Posted by: jaythenerdkid
Even in first world countries, education is still largely a privilege of the middle and upper classes, and is one of the only ways to be socially mobile if you aren't wealthy. It still has plenty of value. People with professional degrees from good universities still have more opportunities than people who don't have those things, and people get into professional programs at said universities by doing well at school, if they can't get in using influential connections.

(When I say "professional degrees", I mean degrees that enable you to enter highly paid speciality fields, such as medicine, types of engineering and the like.)

And I agree with you. But think about what an education gets you in 2013 compared to 1913. My grandfather and his friends would say "If we had just had an education we'd be running the country". Think about what they perceived as an education getting you. They're talking about it leading to you running the country. And through a lot of history that's how it was. So imagine the value we'd put on education if we perceived it as being a ticket to that. We don't perceive it that way and naturally don't value it to such a huge degree.

  • 01.08.2013 1:38 AM PDT


Posted by: NewRadical12
No, they don't. It's not entirely their fault, though; America has an anti-intellectual culture.


This is sadly true. One look at the general media can support this.

  • 01.08.2013 1:39 AM PDT

Per Audacia Ad Astra

If I could go back to secondary school, I'd first toughen myself up to avoid being pushed around by the bullies, and then I would ignore my social status completely.

Social appearance is overrated, everyone at university is like a group of chimpanzees.

  • 01.08.2013 1:46 AM PDT

"May I never wake up from the American Dream. TFM."

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This is one symptom of a far larger problem that definitely plagues our generation. Gen-Y kids, or "Millenials," are coddled, asinine, pleasure-seeking idiots continually pampered by their parents and lulled into a false sense of security. Our generation grew up with no losers, no valedictorians, no competition: truly a 'participation generation.'

Thanks to the unprecedented amount of entertainment, distraction, and gratification eternally accessible via the Internet, we've become tied to the notion of individual expression or intrinsic uniqueness (absolute bull). Obsession to rap music has made suburban white kids think that they're complete badasses for rolling around in their lax pennies, Lacoste cardigans, and Lexuses their parents bought.

Then the world say, "You need to go college," and 80% end up going, but only ~5% actually gain something substantial from the cumulative college experience (coursework, internships, epistemological overhaul, etc.). Since they spent their days jerking off, watching Youtube videos, and in general doing precisely jack -blam!-, they come wholly unprepared into the real world.

The real gem is when graduate comes and it's time to look for jobs. Instead of wanting to cut their teeth in "grind" professions (i.e. actually doing work) the entire crop of talentless hacks think they can be DJs, singers, promoters, actors, creative designers, Internet entrepreneurs, etc. For every 3LAU out there, there are a thousand kids stuck in their parents' basement ordering pizza every day, smoking a bowl while talking about how "sick" it'll be when they "make it."

And on top of all that, our generation will be the first to have a lower standard of living than the previous. It's a BIG problem.

  • 01.08.2013 1:49 AM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind

Fix the education system jay, then you can complain about students having a hard time applying themselves in school.

You're always going to have your messed up kids who end up being failures, and you'll always have the valedictorians. But the majority of students realize that alot of what they do is pointless, and their goal is to do well on tests so they can go to college so they can get a job. Except a degree doesn't mean a job anymore does it?

Everyone, especially children, have an incredibly strong natural instinct to want to learn. If the education system is able to crush that then I say that it's a pretty spectacular success at failure on the system's part.

  • 01.08.2013 2:02 AM PDT

Education is important but courses are becoming less and less valuable. Everyone has one now and you pay more then ever. So it is much different from a generation ago where an education could land big things. Now I'm stuck doing something else with 16000 debt it was a waste of two years of income.

  • 01.08.2013 2:08 AM PDT

"May I never wake up from the American Dream. TFM."

When In Finance

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Posted by: AK FROST
Education is important but courses are becoming less and less valuable. Everyone has one now and you pay more then ever. So it is much different from a generation ago where an education could land big things. Now I'm stuck doing something else with 16000 debt it was a waste of two years of income.
Where did you go to school and what did you study?

The majority of the time, the people in massive debt with no hope of escape have primarily themselves to blame. The person going into six figures of debt for an arts degree to enter a field with zero chance of repaying their loans in a realistic timeframe is at fault.

  • 01.08.2013 2:12 AM PDT


Posted by: The Benergizer
Posted by: AK FROST
Education is important but courses are becoming less and less valuable. Everyone has one now and you pay more then ever. So it is much different from a generation ago where an education could land big things. Now I'm stuck doing something else with 16000 debt it was a waste of two years of income.
Where did you go to school and what did you study?

The majority of the time, the people in massive debt with no hope of escape have primarily themselves to blame. The person going into six figures of debt for an arts degree to enter a field with zero chance of repaying their loans in a realistic timeframe is at fault.
Police foundations diploma. But you have to admit the majority of degrees and diplomas are a waste of money and you might as well get into a trade and apprentice. No debt middle income by the time your 21 and not sitting in debt. Not to mention the competition since very one and their brother has a diploma/ degree with above 80 averages.

[Edited on 01.08.2013 2:17 AM PST]

  • 01.08.2013 2:16 AM PDT

The world is full of mysteries, and shares too few of the answers required. An example of which, is how did I end up in the Brute Zone?

School isn't taken as seriously by some now, yes. I'd have to say that there is no statistical evidence in a large sample to prove what you are saying is true, though.

  • 01.08.2013 2:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: random no337
It seems like this line of thought is always spurred from looking back with a bit more wisdom than you had when you were back in school. Especially if you were a high-performer. When in school as a high performer you tend to forget about people who you never see in classes (the ones that take low level math, english, no science classes), but when you view the whole grade as a whole your perspective is soured a lot.

It really has always been this way (okay, not forever but definitely for decades), it's just that nobody notices until they get out of it.


This. Exactly.

I finished school getting on for a decade and a half ago and all the problems attributed in this thread to the "current generation" were problems back then and will have been problems far longer than most people in this thread have been alive.

To be honest this thread (not the OP specifically) reeks of Floodian smugness: "Oh look at all the stupid kids who don't try, aren't we so great and clever for not being like them!". Whatever gives you a much needed ego boost I guess...

[Edited on 01.08.2013 2:23 AM PST]

  • 01.08.2013 2:21 AM PDT

"May I never wake up from the American Dream. TFM."

When In Finance

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Posted by: AK FROST
Posted by: The Benergizer
Posted by: AK FROST
Education is important but courses are becoming less and less valuable. Everyone has one now and you pay more then ever. So it is much different from a generation ago where an education could land big things. Now I'm stuck doing something else with 16000 debt it was a waste of two years of income.
Where did you go to school and what did you study?

The majority of the time, the people in massive debt with no hope of escape have primarily themselves to blame. The person going into six figures of debt for an arts degree to enter a field with zero chance of repaying their loans in a realistic timeframe is at fault.
Police foundations diploma. But you have to admit the majority of degrees and diplomas are a waste of money and you might as well get into a trade and apprentice. No debt middle income by the time your 21 and not sitting in debt. Not to mention the competition since very one and their brother has a diploma/ degree with above 80 averages.
Sure, and essentially a fixed cap on earning potential as well.

Degrees are a waste of time unless you know specifically what you are doing, where you intend to go, have a game plan to accomplish it, and can calculate the NPV of your total investment. I, for instance, chose the white-collar version of a trade school and apprenticeship: an undergraduate finance degree. I didn't hitch my wagon to a place like Penn State though, even with the full scholarship in the honors program. I reached, based on a calculated decision, and went to a premiere institution that I had to go 110 in the hole for. Yet in so doing, after my second year I cleared 20+ in one summer at one of the best investment banks in the world, 30+ the next, and will earn 150-180 my first year out of school. My "apprenticeship?" The 'Summer Analyst' program. My trade? Capitalism.

I agree entirely with you on the point about the dilution of a degree's worth. We as a society are failing when a four-year, six-figure degree is a prerequisite for an administrative job clearing only 40 a year. Literally. I looked at internal postings; executive admin (read: secretary) roles require a Bachelor's degree. That is absurd. Our college degree has become the equivalent of what a high school degree was barely a generation ago.

  • 01.08.2013 2:25 AM PDT

"May I never wake up from the American Dream. TFM."

When In Finance

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Posted by: Ason Unique

Posted by: random no337
It seems like this line of thought is always spurred from looking back with a bit more wisdom than you had when you were back in school. Especially if you were a high-performer. When in school as a high performer you tend to forget about people who you never see in classes (the ones that take low level math, english, no science classes), but when you view the whole grade as a whole your perspective is soured a lot.

It really has always been this way (okay, not forever but definitely for decades), it's just that nobody notices until they get out of it.


This. Exactly.

I finished school getting on for a decade and a half ago and all the problems attributed in this thread to the "current generation" were problems back then and will have been problems far longer than most people in this thread have been alive.

To be honest this thread (not the OP specifically) reeks of Floodian smugness: "Oh look at all the stupid kids who don't try, aren't we so great and clever for not being like them!". Whatever gives you a much needed ego boost I guess...
I don't think it's an ego boost. Look at what I said earlier: this is the first generation in our nation's history to have a lower standard of living than the one preceding it.

Technology has so dramatically changed the way we think, interact, learn, and accomplish.

It's estimated that 70% of the jobs that will exist in 20 years do not exist today. Think about how true that is for the present. 20 years ago, you did not have this massive population of programmers, "code ninjas," "design rockstars," "customer service gurus," webmasters, and the myriad other positions that the wave of technology entrepreneurship has brought. Hell, even the same firms like mine (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Barclays, Citi, etc.) have been completely reshaped; Morgan, for instance, had 3,000 employees only decades ago. Today it has nearly 60,000, the massive addition being in support roles, not revenue producers.

Technology reshapes everything. Yes, each generation bemoans the fate of the one that follows it, but this argument today has great merit. The typical inter-generational angst is amplified by the technology aspect.

  • 01.08.2013 2:34 AM PDT

william

I surely don't, but I should

  • 01.08.2013 2:41 AM PDT

still here

I treat school as a part of my life, I just sit in class, do my work, and just deal with it. I only goof off in class and talk to friends when it benefits me.

  • 01.08.2013 2:44 AM PDT


Posted by: The Benergizer
Posted by: AK FROST
Posted by: The Benergizer
Posted by: AK FROST
Education is important but courses are becoming less and less valuable. Everyone has one now and you pay more then ever. So it is much different from a generation ago where an education could land big things. Now I'm stuck doing something else with 16000 debt it was a waste of two years of income.
Where did you go to school and what did you study?

The majority of the time, the people in massive debt with no hope of escape have primarily themselves to blame. The person going into six figures of debt for an arts degree to enter a field with zero chance of repaying their loans in a realistic timeframe is at fault.
Police foundations diploma. But you have to admit the majority of degrees and diplomas are a waste of money and you might as well get into a trade and apprentice. No debt middle income by the time your 21 and not sitting in debt. Not to mention the competition since very one and their brother has a diploma/ degree with above 80 averages.
Sure, and essentially a fixed cap on earning potential as well.

Degrees are a waste of time unless you know specifically what you are doing, where you intend to go, have a game plan to accomplish it, and can calculate the NPV of your total investment. I, for instance, chose the white-collar version of a trade school and apprenticeship: an undergraduate finance degree. I didn't hitch my wagon to a place like Penn State though, even with the full scholarship in the honors program. I reached, based on a calculated decision, and went to a premiere institution that I had to go 110 in the hole for. Yet in so doing, after my second year I cleared 20+ in one summer at one of the best investment banks in the world, 30+ the next, and will earn 150-180 my first year out of school. My "apprenticeship?" The 'Summer Analyst' program. My trade? Capitalism.

I agree entirely with you on the point about the dilution of a degree's worth. We as a society are failing when a four-year, six-figure degree is a prerequisite for an administrative job clearing only 40 a year. Literally. I looked at internal postings; executive admin (read: secretary) roles require a Bachelor's degree. That is absurd. Our college degree has become the equivalent of what a high school degree was barely a generation ago.
Exactly it's Interesting to see us in Canada have the same problem. But it's why I took the easy route factory work until I get into a trade while
My diploma collects dust.

  • 01.08.2013 2:46 AM PDT

It's not my fault, I was just trying to tie my shoe!

Join TFS, the grooviest private group on bungie.net! We r cewl gaiz who dun fraid of nething. Join for heated debates, game nights, and lols. We're waiting! (Be a man) We must be swift as the coursing river. (Be a man), With all the force of a great typhoon. (Be a man), With all the strength of a raging fire. Mysterious as the dark side of the moon!

Well, I know my friends don't, as I don't either at time.

I have a 3.0 and do tons of extracurricular activities. I absolutely despise school. I'm joining the military after high school so my college will be free, and it will hopefully clear my head enough so I have an idea of what I want to do with the rest of my life.

Oh yeah, and sitting behind a desk for the majority of my years is boring as -blam!-, too.

[Edited on 01.08.2013 2:53 AM PST]

  • 01.08.2013 2:48 AM PDT

I am in several "honors" classes. Most of the time there are several people sleeping in class and I am one of the few people to turn in homework.

Not only that, but several times a week I have to listen to one of my teachers rant at the class for talking or not doing work. Even after said rant, the idiots continue to not do anything.

I have a 4.3 GPA is anyone is wondering.

[Edited on 01.08.2013 3:32 AM PST]

  • 01.08.2013 3:30 AM PDT

<didn't mean to post again>

[Edited on 01.08.2013 3:31 AM PST]

  • 01.08.2013 3:31 AM PDT

ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY CHROME.

Just way too many lazy ass kids is all. I know a girl who got her GED her senior year. She had enough credits to grad, but she decided not to. That decision just cost her pretty much everything in life.

  • 01.08.2013 3:36 AM PDT
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Posted by: The Benergizer


The job market has changed massively in the last 20-30 years too. It may not be as large as 70% but there are dozens of jobs and areas of study that were unheard of a few decades ago and the job market would be virtually unrecognisable to someone from the 80s or 90s. The advent of a world wide web, and everything that entails, has changed the face of the job market to its very core with the retail and service industries having also boomed massively since then.

Admittedly, given that technology snowballs, this effect will probably become even more evident in the next 20 years or so but the changes themselves are nothing new.

I can't comment on whether this generation having a lower standard of living is solely indicative of life in the US or whether it is a problem that is being experienced across the West. I haven't heard anything being mentioned of it in the UK though, as with a lot of social trends, we may simply just be behind the US.

  • 01.08.2013 4:08 AM PDT

Remember those times when we all had something better to be doing, but didn't do it? Those were good times. Gooood times

It bother me how parents(at least in my area) complain about kids being divided into smart and slow classes because their kids are in the slow. Its not like the kids have much(if anything) wrong with them other than the inability to care about their education, and by demanding that the classes be merged(my year was the second to last year to have accelerated students) they are denying smarter kids an education that they deserve.

The standard American kid does not value education very highly, as I know as an American kid that I place various things above it. At least I'm able to keep up with the accelerated classes, though, and graduating as an honors student. Most kids I know are struggling in standard(no longer slow, or 'B') classes.

  • 01.08.2013 4:31 AM PDT

-bow chicka brown cow-

I do.

  • 01.08.2013 4:31 AM PDT

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