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This topic has moved here: Subject: God (or something like Him), as seen in halo.
  • Subject: God (or something like Him), as seen in halo.
Subject: God (or something like Him), as seen in halo.

GT: xiidan360x (i accept all friend requests.)
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Posted by: IceWeasel
Foreword
If you know me, you know my ideas follow a central theme: Biblical elements in halo.
This thread is no different.
If you do not think Biblical elements and themes are present in halo, don't bother addressing me about the apologetics behind such a mindset. Chances are I won't give you more than 1 rebuttal.

So if you want to discuss this but you don't think halo has the Biblical under/over-tones, take it with a grain of salt, or maybe a handfull.

I am not addressing whether or not Halo has been influenced by the Bible. I am addressing a single Biblical theme and its relevance to the story. Argue for or against that theme, but not the apologetics behind the allegorical school of thought.

Like the title suggests, forget about Noah for a second. I'm thinking of the other Ark, the Ark of the Covenant. Now before you get all huffy and scream "Come on! Ark! Flood!!! It's Noah's ARK!!!", please restrain yourself. I'm not saying there isn't a parrallel to Noah, the ark and the Great Flood. I'm suggesting a dual meaning. If this theory is going to make any sense to you, you're going to have to Noah and his gopher-wood box on the back burner.

This is, among other things, about God's Ark of the Covenant, sin, Salvation and [a] savior(s).

This thread is building off of my M ediator thread. I recommend checkin' it out (if you haven't already) before reading this.

Where to start?
Let's get Biblical!
*ahem*

You've heard it a million times. Noah's Ark saved 8 people and a ton of animals from the flood, then God made a Covenant to never destroy with such a flood again.
Hold the phone-
The flood are constantly being let loose in halo. Obviously, this school of thought isn't holding water.

Consider the flood as sin, and the Ark as the Ark of the Covenant.
Have you been reading up on scripture?
Ok, well, then have you seen Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Ark?

When God made His first Covenant with the Jews, He gave Moses plans, copies of a Covenant to come. One of the plans God showed Moses was the Ark of the Covenant. A 4x2 foot box made of Acacia wood covered in gold.
The physical contents was a jar of manna, Aaron's staff, and the stone tablets of the Covenant.

Supernaturally, God was in that box. Well, if you want to get theological, -no-, I'll with-hold theology for now.
The Ark of the Covenant practically housed God and His Glory. How does this tie into halo? I'm getting to that.

So, Moses' first encounter with God. He's walkin' around and -boom!-, he sees a burning bush that starts talking to him.
Long story short, God says His name is "I AM WHAT I AM". In Hebrew, it is YHWH, or "Yahweh", though some scholars say it could be pronounced "Hawah", which sounds like breathing, the proof of "I am". According to deep analysis of the texts of Exodus, it is quite clear that God, YHWH, is the epitome of sentience/sapience. I AM is the ultimate statement of self awareness. Self awareness being the cornerstone of sapience (often confused with "Sentience" in science fiction).

Back to the Ark.
One time there was this guy named Uzzah who grabbed the Ark to keep it from falling. But when he layed his hand on it he immediately died.

Also, there were high priests who would offer sacrifices every year on the Ark. If the priest had defiled himself in anyway in his preparation for the sacrifice, he'd die in the presence of the Ark.
The priests were so serious about it they'd wear bells, and also a rope around their foot.
If other priests heard the bells suddenly stop, they wouldn't enter the Ark's presence, that'd kill them, too. They'd grab the rope and yank the ex-High priest from under the heavy curtain.

That is the power of not being properly prepared for the The I AM.

What about Halo?

Remember Cortana's words on high charity?
[b]"there's something inside the ship, a presence that's fighting back. For a Covenant construct it's unusually formidable.


I think it's funny how she didn't call that Presence an A.I.
No, she did compare it to Covenant A.I.'s, but she didn't call it an A.I.
She didn't even call it covenant.
I'm willing to put money on it being a home-grown, original Forerunner intellegince, artificial or otherwise.

I'm also willing to bet that the Ark [of the Covenant parallel] is on that forerunner ship, or at least IS the ship.


Cortana:
They've been using the Forerunner ship's engines as an energy source for the city.

Psalms 132:8
Arise, O LORD, and enter your sanctuary,
along with the ark, the symbol of your power.

Also, consider the Halo 3 trailer...
Revelations 11:19
19Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a great hailstorm.
Sound like the trailer?

Ok, so what's going to happen?
How can this tie together?

The Ark of the Covenant holds God's Presence, God is "I AM", the ultimate Self Aware.
The formidable presence is going to be with that ship on its return (yes, I say return) to Earth.
That ship is very likely to be or to hold the Ark, the Ark of the Covenant.

What do the halos do?
Kill flood.
No, barbarian. It wipes the galexy clean of all sentient (sapient?) life.

I feel that this Presence will do one (or two) of two things.
1)It will do important talking about the Ark and how to use it
AND/OR
2) it will make a very intimate contact with the Chief.
Shut up. So I said "Intimate"
Boo-ha-plasmapunch. Grow up.

I believe the chief's suit is the way it is for a reason.
It uses covenant technology, taken from Forerunner relics.
The moniters recognize the chief's suit as being forerunner, but totally throw out those Covenant copy-cats.

The chief has shielding for a reason.
The chief's suit can house an A.I., and now with halo 2 and the advent of the Mk 6 armor, can broadcast an A.I. without a physical chip.

That last little bit will be important in the confrontation at the Ark, when Salvation is dealt.

I believe that the seven halos send out pulse that is much like EMP, only for the self aware mind. USB, short for "Ultra Sapient Blast!!!".

If the [remaining] halos go off, the hole galaxy will echo "I AM".

I totally agree with your idea/thought/theory. And you are probably also right. Since Bungie uses alot of historical religious ideas in Halo alot. So your idea is most likely right. Good find.

  • 07.08.2006 6:24 PM PDT
Subject: Forget Noah, this is God's Ark
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I can tell you have definately put a lot of thought into it, my hat comes off to you sir. However, I don't believe your theory is correct, and I hope it isn't. Not everyone is a christian.

  • 07.08.2006 6:25 PM PDT

GT: xiidan360x (i accept all friend requests.)
OMG they are going to destroy the World................of Warcraft.
▀▄Halo 2 Strategy- complete, Halo 3 Strategy- in progress...▄▀
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀MJOLNIRBATTLE TACTICS▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀

And not everyone is a jew or muslim. All religions have near the same beliefs. One god/super being, a flood and a boat, a prophet. Pretty much all religions are the same only worded differently. Please dont flame me!!

  • 07.08.2006 6:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: Eddie metal head
I can tell you have definately put a lot of thought into it, my hat comes off to you sir. However, I don't believe your theory is correct, and I hope it isn't. Not everyone is a christian.

Even if you're not a Christian, the Bible is still a real book with stories, parables, and even a few known facts. It's fine to pin allegory to it, regardless of what you believe.

  • 07.08.2006 6:31 PM PDT
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as i have said earlier god isnt real "he" is just a figment of imagination.

[Edited on 7/8/2006]

  • 07.08.2006 6:33 PM PDT
Subject: God (or something like Him), as seen in halo.
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Posted by: VELOCITY 7000
god isnt real...science is


Thanks for pointing that out, because, you know, God's existence actually matters to it. Because, obviously, Halo can't possibly be based off the Bible if God isn't real, because, you know, Halo is real, and real things can't possibly be based off unreal things.

Sorry, but sarcasm is always the best weapon against people like this.

Posted by: Pwnocchio
Really? Yeesh. I don't know your pastor, so I'm not going to be disrespectful or anything- but sometimes it's harder for some people to appreciate the value that can be found in entertainment mediums of all kinds- themes like redemption, truth, beauty, etc. And those are certainly there in Halo, but it's hard for some people to see past some of the violence.


Yeah, that's one of the things that always makes me dislike talking to most people, they can't see past pre-concieved notions, and other stuff like this.

[Edited on 7/8/2006]

  • 07.08.2006 6:54 PM PDT
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If that isn't the way that Bungie is planning to end the series you should make your own Halo 3 because that is a SAWEET theory. Good job on your research too.

[Edited on 7/8/2006]

  • 07.08.2006 7:30 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

*Ahem*
Guys, religious commentary isn't promoted here.

Velocity 7000, This thread isn't about debating God's existance, and you're really pushing the religious/political commentary rule. Is this some sort of tactic to take down threads and ideas you don't like? Spam it with contraban posts in hopes of sabatoging the ideal familiar to a hypothetical scorn?

Just because you don't like the idea of God doesn't mean you have to attack it here.
If you want something to attack here, attack my idea of halo being related to the Bible. And if you do that, I have good reasons to prove otherwise.

Seriously.
Is nobody aware of the saying "If you have nothing postive to say..."?

  • 07.08.2006 7:56 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

Posted by: Ad_Hominum
Personally, I've always wanted to see someone analyze Halo for parallels to the Qur'an...

Really?
What have you seen?

  • 07.08.2006 8:15 PM PDT

"I came back to life for THIS?!" -Sgt. Johnson

Posted by: VELOCITY 7000
god isnt real...science is


Think about this for a second.

Why do you not believe God is real? Most likely, because you cannot see Him (include all other empirically testable senses in 'see').

Why do you believe science is real? Because you can feel it, you can see it, you can understand it.

However, how much certainty does this sensory perception lend? If you believe that random chance confined by natural selection was the only cause of life on Earth, science is just a construction of humanity. Our minds developed because they helped us survive, but that doesn't automatically make our thought processes logical or our perceptions true. For all we know, we could be bumbling insane fools compared to the actual universe as a whole. Our little success in several centuries of science might only be based on a deranged logic that works just well enought to keep hunters from dying or nuclear reactors blowing up in our faces.

All science is based on this simple rule: If something occurs under a precise set of conditions, it would have occurred under the same set of conditions in the past. I personally believe this statement, as long as all conditions (including sentient actions) are taken into consideration. However, even the most ardent naturalists must take it on faith. Why? Because if it isn't true, science cannot occur. Whatever we discover doesn't mean anything unless we assume that has a connection to other events. So, in order to examine the universe, we must assume the statement without proof. Why? Because proof itself requires the assumption in the first place.

Point is, in a world without God (or any other sovereign deity), one would have to accept one's own assumptions and perceptions as flawed and adapted to the singular purpose of reproduction. There is no basis for a larger capability of ultimate understanding. Sure, we might get lucky, but just as a snake sees the world in terms of sun and shade, predator and prey, we can only see what helped our ancestors enough for them to keep on reproducing. That is, unless there is a greater purpose to our understanding, and an absolute basis for truth.

So, in summary: Your quick assumption of science as true and God as not leaves much logical fallacy. You believe what you see, but the only way to truly trust what you see represents a higher truth is to believe that some cosmic force or deity wants humans to understand more than our lowly position of bipedal primate would otherwise allow.

Thanks for the opportunity for philosophical exercise. You should try it sometime.

[Edited on 7/8/2006]

  • 07.08.2006 8:47 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

Dude...
I wish both sides of the commentary axis would calm down.

  • 07.08.2006 8:49 PM PDT
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The more biblical references people make about halo, the more everything seems to make sence, good job with that post, truly genious

  • 07.08.2006 8:57 PM PDT

"I came back to life for THIS?!" -Sgt. Johnson

Posted by: IceWeasel
Dude...
I wish both sides of the commentary axis would calm down.


Sorry. I'm not riled up, though I admit that was a bit long. Really, it was just enjoyable to phrase logical arguments. In fact, I have no further desire to continue in some theological flame-war, if that makes you rest easier. I just wanted to inject a little deeper thought into an issue that doesn't always go there.


On a more on-topic note, the post was quite good. I like the notion that Halo 3 could see the introduction of another powerful and archetypical element. While extremely close parallels are not necessarily the way I would go, having something of great power compared to the Forerunner is an intriguing possibility.

[Edited on 7/8/2006]

  • 07.08.2006 8:57 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

Well, I'm all for theological sharpening, but I am not for mod.s getting lock-taculars, and ban-frenzies.

  • 07.08.2006 9:00 PM PDT

"I came back to life for THIS?!" -Sgt. Johnson

Understood. It would be a shame for an actually intelligent poster to get hit by flak from an off-topic debate.


[Edited on 7/8/2006]

  • 07.08.2006 9:01 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

If you're a fan of theology, I know a group or two that may suit you.

I may have touched on an important element that ties into this God/Ark thing. I know I briefly touched it with my last thread, but not in here.

When Moses, the Mediator of the first Covenant came down from his meeting with God, his face shown brilliantly because of Who he saw.
Also, while on the mountain, God gave Moses plan for the Ark of the covenant, to make it out of Acacia wood.

Scroll up.
See Chief's face?
No? Too radient you say?

What about that tree?
What species is it?
Acacia.

  • 07.08.2006 9:06 PM PDT
Subject: Forget Noah, this is God's Ark

"Thoughts are the shadows of feelings; always darker, emptier, and simpler."

Guys, this has been addressed. I do believe that a group to compare Halo with Biblical input is obserd! This is a GAME. Many MOVIES have been based on the bible. Deal with it. If people really followed God (like I do) they would have realised this ages ago. I understand that you are trying to get people to go down the right path. =) I just don't like these posts. Halo isn't real! Accept it. It is just an awsome videogame. God didn't make videoames. If he did then he would have made a mistake with the Davinci Code. But hopefully as most of you know God doesn't make mistakes.

Yes, this is very descriptive. And good reasearch was used. Good job! I just don't think this was nessesary in the Halo 3 forum. Try copying it into the New Mombassa or Flood forum.

  • 07.08.2006 9:10 PM PDT

"Thoughts are the shadows of feelings; always darker, emptier, and simpler."

I am a Christan too. I go to this church.

  • 07.08.2006 9:12 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

...
Did I ever say halo was more than what it is?

Did I ever say that God made the halo game?

Am I understanding what you are saying?
Have you understood all of what I said?

  • 07.08.2006 9:12 PM PDT
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Just because there is obvious and subtle Biblical allegory does not mean IceWeasel or any of the rest of us believe God created Halo, or that we believe Halo is a real world. This belongs in the Halo 3 forum just as much as every "how does the MC take a crap" thread.

Again, good work, Ice. Don't let the bastards get you down.

  • 07.08.2006 9:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Zerodev
Just because there is obvious and subtle Biblical allegory does not mean IceWeasel or any of the rest of us believe God created Halo, or that we believe Halo is a real world. This belongs in the Halo 3 forum just as much as every "how does the MC take a crap" thread.


I think that this thread has lasted 90+ posts and IceWeasel's previous Halo 3 forum thread lasted more than 300 is good evidence that his threads are appropriate, at least to those who hold the power. Knock on wood.

Again, good work, Ice. Don't let the bastards get you down.

I second that emotion.

Posted by: Ad_Hominum
Personally, I've always wanted to see someone analyze Halo for parallels to the Qur'an...

Really?
What have you seen?


I would be interested in seeing that, too, not knowing much about the Qur'an. What little I do know is that 'jihad', or holy war, is actually three steps. The first is the war with oneself, the second is the war within your community, and the third (and most commonly known) is the war with those outside your community. I believe that 'war', in this case, is not necessarily literal, but deals with overcoming doubts and sceptism.
Anyway, the story of the Arbiter fits nicely in that scheme. First, he must convince himself of the truth, then his brethren elites, then go to war with the prophet-allied covenant.

  • 07.09.2006 4:26 PM PDT
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Sorry, it may have seemed that I was bashing IceWeasel with my previous post, when in fact I was doing the opposite. Hope it didn't come across the wrong way.

It's true, from what little I know of the Qur'an, there do seem to be some parallels as well.

  • 07.09.2006 4:31 PM PDT
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Well, Zerodov, I don't know if you thought I thought you were being negative (can you work that one out? I barely can). Anyway, I got what you said. :) I was aiming my comments to those who come to here saying (well, screaming) that 'this thread should be banned!! Religious commentary!!'

  • 07.09.2006 4:50 PM PDT
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I did get that, and I did think you thought I was being negative. Thanks for catching that I wasn't, but so I'm clear to those who didn't catch it, I was not being negative.

:)

  • 07.09.2006 4:52 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

I forgot to mention an important note that really reinforces my "I AM" theory.
It's well accepted that the highlight color for the forerunner technology is blue.
From the 3 beam towers in the level Halo, of halo: ce, the phase pulse generators that probably feed those towers (two betrayals/assault on the control room), to the near-fire of halo I05.
Blue.
It's everywhere.

In Jewish culture, blue is a symbol very closely related to God. But that's vaguely speaking.
I have a tallit, or prayer shawl. The design for a tallit (prayer shawl) is specified in the book of numbers, I believe.
It's full of symbols to remind them of things. The tassles have 5 knots, a reminder for the first 5 books in the Bible, the pentateuch, or The Law.

Relevantly speaking, prayer shawls are also required to have blue stripes on them.
Blue is to remind the believer to pray.
Also, when God was seen on Mt. Sainai, He was allegedly seen on a saphire surface.

Blue, the color of drawing close to God, the I AM, the ultimate Sapience (sentience).

  • 07.09.2006 5:58 PM PDT