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Subject: Halo 2 Balance Issues In Halo 3
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Posted by: Clayton Bigsby1
the banshee and wraith boost would be a good counter to close in enemies if it actually worked. i have seen time and time again where a banshee or wraith boost has simply lauched an eneemy into the air and not killed them. that definately needs to be fixed if the vehicles are not going to be changed

If the boost throws an enemy into the air, then the Banshee or the Wraith can either be driven away using the boost or they can try to ram that enemy again, or they can start to shoot at that enemy.

[Edited on 7/7/2006]

  • 07.07.2006 11:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Clayton Bigsby1
my point is, while definately acknowledging that halo in general is totally unrealistic, is that the realism of warfare should still be considered in the balancing process, making the gameplay somewhat more realistic and hopefully more fun. i'm not saying that you should be able to kill someone with a banshee in one shot, which would probably be more realistic, but simply that destroying a banshee with a small-caliber gun is way too unrealistic to have in the game, even if it does balance the game out


Ah, I see what you're saying now. Haha, and I think I actually agree with that assessment somewhat. The realism of warfare is definitely very prevalent in the game.

I'm not sure how they would fix that issue, though. Personally, I would like the Banshee to be much more valuable than it is (I totally agree with what you were saying about how coveted air support is), but at the same time, I hate that it's almost impossible to kill with what I'm given at spawn. Perhaps something could be leveled out with it once you start destroying the wings, etc. I think that all vehicles should have some kind of permanent health bar, rather than being based on your shields. It really kinda messed things up in Halo 2 I think as far as vehicle combat was concerned. Why make destructible vehicles if they doesn't even matter how much damage is added up in the long run?

  • 07.07.2006 11:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: SatanInASweater
It may be defenseless against a Turret or a Banshee, but that's not really saying much. They're already overpowered. Besides, players shouldn't need a Banshee or a Rocket Launcher or a Turret just to have a fair chance to take out a Wraith.


Here it is folks, in this guy's post. Importance in italics, significance in bold italics.

Basic point?

Halo 2 is not disliked because of balance, it is disliked because its not completely fair . Can anyone prove to me that this isnt true?

[Edited on 7/7/2006]

  • 07.07.2006 11:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Clayton Bigsby1
yeah but the failed boost attempt gives your enemy an undeserved opportunity to either stick you with a grenade or pull out their rocket when they should be the one that died

The Banshee and the Wraith are pretty cheap anyway, and the extra chance that the enemy gets to kill the person in the Banshee or the Wraith pretty much just makes the game more fair. The infantry is at a disadvantage, anyway, so the glitch pretty much just gives the infantry a fair chance to kill the person in the Banshee or the Wraith.

Posted by: JTisaBeEg
Halo 2 is not disliked because of balance, it is disliked because its not completely fair . Can anyone prove to me that this isnt true?

Halo 2 is disliked for several reasons. Anyway, what's the difference between imbalanced gameplay and unfair gameplay?

  • 07.07.2006 11:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: SatanInASweater

Halo 2 is disliked for several reasons. Anyway, what's the difference between imbalanced gameplay and unfair gameplay?


Balance - equality of distribution (is that not a good enough definition?)

When weapons/vehicles or oppurtunities for weapons/vehicles are equally distributed, then the map is balanced.

Fair - when all parties involved in any matter are favored the same. (broad definition from many dictionaries)

When people have an equal playing ground at any given time in the game, whether weapons or vehicles, then the game is fair.

Example:

I'll use coagulation as the example since it has vehicles, many weapons, and is symmetrical (somewhat). Normal Settings, Team slayer, assume both teams spawn at their own base.

Both teams spawn at their respective bases with an SMG, Balance.

Both teams have a warthog, ghost, banshee, and maybe a tank at their base, Balance.

Both teams have a BR, Sniper rifle, Plasma Rifle, Magnum and teleporter, Balance.

Both teams have a BR, Needler and Brute Shot near equal distance apart further down the map, Balance.

These four things I have stated are the basic balances to the map. In other maps such as Zanzibar, the balance of weapons and vehicles may be tipped toward one side because of a larger defense area, more power weapons on one side, etc. These other factors along side the weapons create a balance for the entire map.

The fair factor comes in when you try to even the playing field throughout the course of matches. Lets go back to Halo 1 and use the Pistol. People loved it because it was a "balancing factor," when in fact it created no overwhelming favor to any side with the power weapons, which according to the definition, is Fair.

When people have an SMG and they are being spawn-raped by a BR or a Sniper, its not a lack of balance, its a lack of fairness.

What MLG does with its gametypes doesnt balance the game more, it makes it fair fair so that everyone has a chance at using their weapon skill (primarily) to kill opponents. The BR start makes it so that Power weapons are a lot less controllable, No Duals weapon settings create absence of the cheap Combo, no radar creates the absence of camping with power weapons for long periods of time, and the maps used by the league are picked for the best possible fairness (dont believe me? why isnt Relic or Ascension an MLG map?).

The bottom line is, there is a huge difference between balance and fairness and people seem to mix the two up.

Note: My posts have not been in the name of Flaming, they are just to help people realize what the differences are. I respect MLG and every other competitive gaming league and am not biased toward either game in their own respects.

  • 07.08.2006 5:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: Clayton Bigsby1
there are some things in halo 2 that i think are just lame, such as the shotgun, and SMGs killing banshees in MP

i think that these gameplay issues need to be changed for halo 3 to make them more realistic, such as making the shotgun more consistent, and making sure that banshees can only be destroyed by heavy weapons , not SMGs and pistols, as is stated in both halo 1 and 2 manuals

what do you guys think about these issues? do they need to be changed in halo 3, or stay the same?


Do that and you will come back and -blam!- about a game where a banshee pilot in Rumble Pit grabbed the rocket launcher and sniper and killed you with the banshee the whole game.

Think before you act. Why would you only kill it with a rocket launcher? What happens when the Banshee pilot get sit? Your -blam!-. So quit saying stupid ideas.

  • 07.08.2006 5:06 PM PDT
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thers nothing wrong with h2 noobs lmao gg

  • 07.08.2006 5:07 PM PDT
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Here's the solution:

Banshees are cheap and unbalanced, therefore they must be removed from the game.

SMGs are too hard to use and therefore they must be removed.

Tanks are too strong and therefore they must be removed.

EVERYTHING is cheap and unbalacned, therefore the game must be a game with no weapons, no vehicles, and no characters for you to play as.

If people like you had a say in things like this, games would be like staring at a gray screen.

  • 07.08.2006 5:08 PM PDT
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theres nothing wron wit h2 noob shut up lol gg

  • 07.08.2006 5:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: Clayton Bigsby1
there are some things in halo 2 that i think are just lame, such as the shotgun, and SMGs killing banshees in MP

i think that these gameplay issues need to be changed for halo 3 to make them more realistic, such as making the shotgun more consistent, and making sure that banshees can only be destroyed by heavy weapons , not SMGs and pistols, as is stated in both halo 1 and 2 manuals

what do you guys think about these issues? do they need to be changed in halo 3, or stay the same?
You know why SMG and MAgnums can kill Banshees? So that if the guy in the Banshee is carrying the mpas Rocket Launcher you wouldn't have to wait for him to get close to the ground and if your lucky bored him. SMG's 5mm are small bullets, but the Banshee has light armor. Plus i'd think 60 bullets and some 12.7 mm bulllets are capable of peircing light armor.
* Shtogun was made light I have no clue why. They should probably strenghten that. Just make the range longer, the damage is fine. And fix the host issue too, if possible.

PS: Play Halo PC with Banshees, firggin invincible if there arn't any tanks.

[Edited on 7/8/2006]

  • 07.08.2006 5:11 PM PDT

"Thoughts are the shadows of feelings; always darker, emptier, and simpler."

Scorpions need to have better life support. Notice that you can kill the guyin it with a BR.

  • 07.08.2006 5:12 PM PDT
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nah lol gg

  • 07.08.2006 5:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: BrenMan 94
Scorpions need to have better life support. Notice that you can kill the guyin it with a BR.
Since when? Tried that it take nearly two clips. Unless you mean shooting him when the hatch is missing. That just balances it out. The Tank is fine.

  • 07.08.2006 5:14 PM PDT
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yea since when noob? lol gg

  • 07.08.2006 5:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: GUHILHIL
yea since when noob? lol gg
What the hell? That's all you've ever been saying in your posts.

  • 07.08.2006 5:15 PM PDT
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ya i kno lol gg cya ASAP

  • 07.08.2006 5:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: GUHILHIL
yea since when noob? lol gg
Just to let you know saying th word noob or any variation if it will get you a blacklist.

  • 07.08.2006 5:17 PM PDT
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If you wanna see an airplane cemetery, why don't you just find an old airplane and look at where it goes?

Super Mega Awesome Champion of Legendary SANTA's Gameshow Episode 5.

Proud owner of crapdancemagee’s eyes and hands.

Posted by: Ajk141
Here's the solution:

Banshees are cheap and unbalanced, therefore they must be removed from the game.

SMGs are too hard to use and therefore they must be removed.

Tanks are too strong and therefore they must be removed.

EVERYTHING is cheap and unbalacned, therefore the game must be a game with no weapons, no vehicles, and no characters for you to play as.

If people like you had a say in things like this, games would be like staring at a gray screen.

Nothing in the game is completely fair, and that's fine, but when the game has things that are extremely unfair, then the game will be based around getting the overpowered weapons and it would no longer be based around skill. Put things into context.

  • 07.08.2006 7:05 PM PDT

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The banshee is fine as it is it doesn't need to be stronger or have a fuel rod cannon but if it did it would have to be a weak version and as said before if you die from small arms fire in a banshee its not because the banshees weak its just that you suck you could of backed up and shoot at the enemies ram right into them or flew away until your shields rechargedbut I guess being in a vehicle that is able to fly do flips to awoid shoots boost to get out of a bad situation and every other advantage the banshee gives you, and you want the damn thing to be stronger! Thats stupid just use anouther vehicle

  • 07.08.2006 7:25 PM PDT
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I selfishly want this stickied so that people can see my posts about balance and fair.

  • 07.09.2006 2:17 AM PDT
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balance DOES NOT = fun

  • 07.09.2006 2:26 AM PDT
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the SMG does alot of damage to the tanks too. about half or abit more then half of a clip to crack there shields
then there is only a single grenade then your done, the only problem is they shoot back
and it should do alot of damage to vehicles coz there isn't alot of effective weapons that are any good against them.

  • 07.09.2006 4:13 AM PDT

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