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  • Subject: Biblical References
Subject: Biblical References

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: IceWeasel
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: IceWeasel
They did for halo 1 and 2, why not 3?
To my knowledge, they didn't do this as much in Halo 1.

Not as much, sure. But we agree it was there since the beginning, right?

Also, don't forget the "Truth and Reconciliation".
In an interview (I think with Marty) it was confirmed that name came from the Bible as well (pointing to Jesus). Don't forget the Cortana letters...
Yeah, it's just a name, though. That's what I mean; in Halo 1, there aren't any biblical parallels except for a few names.

As for the Cortana letters, well, I haven't read those.

Not true, if you follow the school of thought under my mediator thread, where the flood have nothing to do with the flood in genesis, but rather sin in itself, and the Covenant represented God's Law (which reveals our sin).
Gentile, Jew, no matter, both can be infected with sin.
"Humans, Covenant, whatever, we are both equally edible."

[Edited on 7/12/2006]

  • 07.12.2006 3:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: Titan Alumn
Our entire society is based on the teachings and events of the Bible. Stories from the Bible trickle into most mythologies.

Star Wars: Anakin's virgin birth followed by his death (Vader) and ressurection (saving Luke from the Emperor).

The Matrix: He is the One the prophecy spoke of that would return to free human kind. When he dies at the end of Matrix Revolution, he is carried off, lying in a crucifix pose.

Superman: Jarel sends his only son, Kalel to lead mankind to good. In the most recent movie he floats in space in the crucifix position before falling to Earth. On top of that, Kal-El is an angelic name.

Need I go on?

The most obvious correlation between Halo and the Bible is the obvious "Ark Protector From the Flood" analogy. No matter how much some one would like to argue it is not related, it's pretty obvious. Other than that, I don't see it. The Locust out of the Abyss are demons, given the right to torture humans. They are not a race of sickness and evil. To make that comparison is a stretch.
"Our entire society" is not based on the Bible. Sure, a part of our society is, but what about the atheism portion of it?

You're also forgetting that the Bible was inspired by other things--like I mentioned before--the number 7 is not a biblical number. It was used many times before in mythology and ancient history, and since it was used so much, it was deemed a "lucky number."

And the cross? Not a biblical symbol either. Its four points represent earth, fire, wind, and water, the four basic elements, and it was a pagan symbol.

So, true, SOME of society is based somewhat on the bible. But A)--Not all of society is, and B)--the bible was inspired by other things as well.

  • 07.12.2006 3:13 PM PDT
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DMUKYA
Proud member of Eagle 117's theory group, The Watchers
Another great theorist group is Avignon
Interested in the mysteries within all of Bungie's games? Check out Theory of Unification
For the Biblical allegorist in you, there's מִכְמַן
Enjoy reading or writing sci-fi or fantasy? Come to New Horizons

The Cortana Letters have a good deal of Biblical references (the First Letter more so than the others) and I'm working on a theory right now about that. It may be visible tonight, tomorrow night at the latest. The Letters are much less interesting, however, if you don't understand or appreciate the older Bungie games, even if you see the Biblical tie-ins.

  • 07.12.2006 3:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: IceWeasel
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: IceWeasel
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: IceWeasel
They did for halo 1 and 2, why not 3?
To my knowledge, they didn't do this as much in Halo 1.

Not as much, sure. But we agree it was there since the beginning, right?

Also, don't forget the "Truth and Reconciliation".
In an interview (I think with Marty) it was confirmed that name came from the Bible as well (pointing to Jesus). Don't forget the Cortana letters...
Yeah, it's just a name, though. That's what I mean; in Halo 1, there aren't any biblical parallels except for a few names.

As for the Cortana letters, well, I haven't read those.

Not true, if you follow the school of thought under my mediator thread, where the flood have nothing to do with the flood in genesis, but rather sin in itself, and the Covenant represented God's Law (which reveals our sin).
Gentile, Jew, no matter, both can be infected with sin.
"Humans, Covenant, whatever, we are both equally edible."
Then what do you have to say about hunters? They cannot be consumed by the flood. So following the same school of thought, we can easily say that hunters cannot be affected by "sin."
Same with sentinels.

  • 07.12.2006 3:16 PM PDT
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DMUKYA
Proud member of Eagle 117's theory group, The Watchers
Another great theorist group is Avignon
Interested in the mysteries within all of Bungie's games? Check out Theory of Unification
For the Biblical allegorist in you, there's מִכְמַן
Enjoy reading or writing sci-fi or fantasy? Come to New Horizons

I'd consider Hunters a technicality. I mean, who would really want to fight a flood-infected hunter in game?

  • 07.12.2006 3:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ender
I'd consider Hunters a technicality. I mean, who would really want to fight a flood-infected hunter in game?
But according to the story, you can't fight a flood hunter because it is composed of a worm colony, and you can't infect it because each worm is separate.

  • 07.12.2006 3:21 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: IceWeasel
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: IceWeasel
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: IceWeasel
They did for halo 1 and 2, why not 3?
To my knowledge, they didn't do this as much in Halo 1.

Not as much, sure. But we agree it was there since the beginning, right?

Also, don't forget the "Truth and Reconciliation".
In an interview (I think with Marty) it was confirmed that name came from the Bible as well (pointing to Jesus). Don't forget the Cortana letters...
Yeah, it's just a name, though. That's what I mean; in Halo 1, there aren't any biblical parallels except for a few names.

As for the Cortana letters, well, I haven't read those.

Not true, if you follow the school of thought under my mediator thread, where the flood have nothing to do with the flood in genesis, but rather sin in itself, and the Covenant represented God's Law (which reveals our sin).
Gentile, Jew, no matter, both can be infected with sin.
"Humans, Covenant, whatever, we are both equally edible."
Then what do you have to say about hunters? They cannot be consumed by the flood. So following the same school of thought, we can easily say that hunters cannot be affected by "sin."
Same with sentinels.

Eh, not true.
Though their nervous system more than likely cannot be "hacked", I'm pretty sure their biomass can be absorbed into the piles of bodies that the flood gathers. The infection forms can indeed kill hunters, but not take control of them.

Thus, they are suseptible to the flood. Just not being "posessed".

[edit]
And sentinals can, too, be corrupted by the flood.
The flood can assimilate machines. That's what the Keyes-blob was doing in halo-CE to the covenant ship. Also, 2401 Penitent Tangeant seemed to have no regard for the gravemind, and the gravemind apparently knew everything 2401 did, the same as he did the prophet of Regret.

[Edited on 7/12/2006]

  • 07.12.2006 3:32 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

DMUKYA
Proud member of Eagle 117's theory group, The Watchers
Another great theorist group is Avignon
Interested in the mysteries within all of Bungie's games? Check out Theory of Unification
For the Biblical allegorist in you, there's מִכְמַן
Enjoy reading or writing sci-fi or fantasy? Come to New Horizons

Why was the story written that way? Most likely because someone didn't want to create a flood-infected Hunter. Someone would invariably ask why they never see one, so Bungie would have used that description of the Hunters as an excuse. Huh... never thought I would see a story-related aspect like that.

-EDIT-
IceWeasel came up with a better solution.

[Edited on 7/12/2006]

  • 07.12.2006 3:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: IceWeasel
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: IceWeasel
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: IceWeasel
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: IceWeasel
They did for halo 1 and 2, why not 3?
To my knowledge, they didn't do this as much in Halo 1.

Not as much, sure. But we agree it was there since the beginning, right?

Also, don't forget the "Truth and Reconciliation".
In an interview (I think with Marty) it was confirmed that name came from the Bible as well (pointing to Jesus). Don't forget the Cortana letters...
Yeah, it's just a name, though. That's what I mean; in Halo 1, there aren't any biblical parallels except for a few names.

As for the Cortana letters, well, I haven't read those.

Not true, if you follow the school of thought under my mediator thread, where the flood have nothing to do with the flood in genesis, but rather sin in itself, and the Covenant represented God's Law (which reveals our sin).
Gentile, Jew, no matter, both can be infected with sin.
"Humans, Covenant, whatever, we are both equally edible."
Then what do you have to say about hunters? They cannot be consumed by the flood. So following the same school of thought, we can easily say that hunters cannot be affected by "sin."
Same with sentinels.

Eh, not true.
Though their nervous system more than likely cannot be "hacked", I'm pretty sure their biomass can be absorbed into the piles of bodies that the flood gathers. The infection forms can indeed kill hunters, but not take control of them.

Thus, they are suseptible to the flood. Just not being "posessed".
That's not true. It still goes against your school of thought.

According to the school of thought, when Cortana says "We're all equally edible," it means that everyone has an eqal chance of being persuaded by sin. But when she says "we're all equally edible," she's implying that "we all have an equal chance of BECOMING flood."

But the hunters CAN'T become flood. Therefore, that means that not everybody in the analogy is susceptible to "sin." Therefore, it means that there is hardly a correlation between sin and the flood.

  • 07.12.2006 3:38 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

They can die from the spores, and their bodies can be put into piles.
Those piles can become "Brain forms" and potentially graveminds. They would still be flood, just a different flavor that cannot control themselves.

[edit]
Those piles would more than likely need other species, but that doesn't hurt my point at all.

[Edited on 7/12/2006]

  • 07.12.2006 3:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ender
Why was the story written that way? Most likely because someone didn't want to create a flood-infected Hunter. Someone would invariably ask why they never see one, so Bungie would have used that description of the Hunters as an excuse. Huh... never thought I would see a story-related aspect like that.

-EDIT-
IceWeasel came up with a better solution.
Or maybe there is no flood hunter in the game because of their description in the Halo bible? A colony of organisms cannot be converted into flood. It isn't an "excuse," it is part of the plot.

  • 07.12.2006 3:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: IceWeasel
They can die from the spores, and their bodies can be put into piles.
Those piles can become "Brain forms" and potentially graveminds. They would still be flood, just a different flavor that cannot control themselves.
How would they become flood if the infection spore would have to infect each individual worm?

Unless you're considering the idea that the hunter's body can be "added" to the gravemind; in that case, the hunter isn't a flood either.

  • 07.12.2006 3:42 PM PDT
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watch the green mile. there's biblical references to that but Stephen King wrote that. point is dosn't matter.

  • 07.12.2006 3:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: Titan Alumn
Our entire society is based on the teachings and events of the Bible. Stories from the Bible trickle into most mythologies.

Star Wars: Anakin's virgin birth followed by his death (Vader) and ressurection (saving Luke from the Emperor).

The Matrix: He is the One the prophecy spoke of that would return to free human kind. When he dies at the end of Matrix Revolution, he is carried off, lying in a crucifix pose.

Superman: Jarel sends his only son, Kalel to lead mankind to good. In the most recent movie he floats in space in the crucifix position before falling to Earth. On top of that, Kal-El is an angelic name.

Need I go on?

The most obvious correlation between Halo and the Bible is the obvious "Ark Protector From the Flood" analogy. No matter how much some one would like to argue it is not related, it's pretty obvious. Other than that, I don't see it. The Locust out of the Abyss are demons, given the right to torture humans. They are not a race of sickness and evil. To make that comparison is a stretch.
"Our entire society" is not based on the Bible. Sure, a part of our society is, but what about the atheism portion of it?

You're also forgetting that the Bible was inspired by other things--like I mentioned before--the number 7 is not a biblical number. It was used many times before in mythology and ancient history, and since it was used so much, it was deemed a "lucky number."

And the cross? Not a biblical symbol either. Its four points represent earth, fire, wind, and water, the four basic elements, and it was a pagan symbol.

So, true, SOME of society is based somewhat on the bible. But A)--Not all of society is, and B)--the bible was inspired by other things as well.



When I said, "Our entire society" I was over exaggerating. Of course, over exaggeration does not come across in text too well. The cross, while having an alternate meaning to some, means what it means due to the spiritual significance of Christ's death. The four basic elements argument is folly. Yes, to some it means that. But the Christians did not take a random pagan symbol and decide to turn it into something spiritual. That may not be what you are saying, but it almost comes across that way. The cross, which was the Roman form of execution, is only important to billions of people because the Son of God hanged from it. It may serve as a pagan symbol as well, but the two are not intertwined. It would be merely coincidence.

Now if you want to argue whether or not Christ actually hanged on something shaped like a cross, have at it. It's very possible the cross we associate with Christ could very well have been more of a "T" shaped aparatice.

In any case, atheists are affect daily by the influence of the Bible. Everytime you write a check, sign a form, look at a digital watch...you see '06 or 2006 which refers to 2006 years AD, After the Divine. Granted, the calendar system is said to be off by a few years from the life of Christ, but our entire basis for the recording of history is based on the time that passed before and after the man's life, who happens to be the central character in the Bible.

  • 07.12.2006 3:43 PM PDT
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Dude. theres no reference of halo and the bible or whatever you guys wont shut up about. No chief and arbiter are jesus, gravemind is satan, ita all a bunch of bull. you need to get laid.

Your best pal: Edman200

  • 07.12.2006 3:43 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

Posted by: Edman200
Dude. theres no reference of halo and the bible or whatever you guys wont shut up about. No chief and arbiter are jesus, gravemind is satan, ita all a bunch of bull. you need to get laid.

Your best pal: Edman200

Well, you got one thing right.
[edit]
Marty O'Donnell has been quoted as saying this:
Marty:(Laughs) Well we are religious guys, I think a lot of the religious stuff in Halo comes from Jason Jones, and the imagery is all him and he likes to fit it into the Halo story.

Chris butcher has been quoted of saying this:
as far as the story, it can be looked at as a biblical allegory. the parallels are stronger than you probably realise, because nobody outside of bungie has more than a corner of the big picture. and we only have two corners.

[Edited on 7/12/2006]

  • 07.12.2006 3:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: HaloandBucslover
watch the green mile. there's biblical references to that but Stephen King wrote that. point is dosn't matter.
See, that's precisely my point here; whenever somebody thinks that they found a biblical reference in something, they immediately think that it came directly from the bible.

The bible has so many stories in it, that it's pretty hard to not include a similar reference in a game or a book later on. It could essentially be a coincidence, if it deals with the moral of a story or something.

  • 07.12.2006 3:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: HaloandBucslover
watch the green mile. there's biblical references to that but Stephen King wrote that. point is dosn't matter.
See, that's precisely my point here; whenever somebody thinks that they found a biblical reference in something, they immediately think that it came directly from the bible.

The bible has so many stories in it, that it's pretty hard to not include a similar reference in a game or a book later on. It could essentially be a coincidence, if it deals with the moral of a story or something.


That I totally agree with. The Ark/Flood reference is the only one I can say, without much doubt, is a direct Biblical reference. Anything else is just grasping at straws.

  • 07.12.2006 3:48 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: HaloandBucslover
watch the green mile. there's biblical references to that but Stephen King wrote that. point is dosn't matter.
See, that's precisely my point here; whenever somebody thinks that they found a biblical reference in something, they immediately think that it came directly from the bible.

The bible has so many stories in it, that it's pretty hard to not include a similar reference in a game or a book later on. It could essentially be a coincidence, if it deals with the moral of a story or something.

So you're willing to read a quote like this and call it a coincidence?

  • 07.12.2006 3:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: Edman200
Dude. theres no reference of halo and the bible or whatever you guys wont shut up about. No chief and arbiter are jesus, gravemind is satan, ita all a bunch of bull. you need to get laid.

Your best pal: Edman200
I agree with Edman.

Except for the "you need to get laid" part...I don't know any of you, or anything about your lives.

But I think I have explained myself pretty well; I've shown that the flood in Halo 1 have nothing to do with sin, all because of one simple flaw: the hunter's biological makeup.

Edit: IceWeasel, I won't bother to go to the link. I used my hunter point against you, but you didn't have a comeback.

And with that, I'm out.

[Edited on 7/12/2006]

  • 07.12.2006 3:50 PM PDT
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I give up. ill just ignore anything that says "halo3 and bible" everybody wins.

P.S. Just go make a halo religion that deals with the references.

You can be called... "wanna buy some crack?"

[Edited on 7/12/2006]

  • 07.12.2006 3:50 PM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: Edman200
Dude. theres no reference of halo and the bible or whatever you guys wont shut up about. No chief and arbiter are jesus, gravemind is satan, ita all a bunch of bull. you need to get laid.

Your best pal: Edman200
I agree with Edman.

Except for the "you need to get laid" part...I don't know any of you, or anything about your lives.

But I think I have explained myself pretty well; I've shown that the flood in Halo 1 have nothing to do with sin, all because of one simple flaw: the hunter's biological makeup.

And with that, I'm out.

You won't even acknowledge the link?

  • 07.12.2006 3:52 PM PDT
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I agree that there's nothing really to it, but the Ark/Flood reference is obvious. Other than that, it's a battle between good and evil. The Bible is full of battles between good and evil. Therefore it's easy to make connections, but those connections don't constitute references. A reference would be an intentional plot point that directly coincides with a plot point in a story on the Bible.

The Ark is protection from the flood = reference

The Flood being sin = reaching

  • 07.12.2006 3:55 PM PDT
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very well done. if you ever read the book Enders Game by Orson Scott Card, my theory is that the flood work like the enemies in that book. if you destroy the master (Gravemind=bugger queen), the rest will fall. (flood=bugger drones)

  • 07.12.2006 4:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: Private Enemy
very well done. if you ever read the book Enders Game by Orson Scott Card, my theory is that the flood work like the enemies in that book. if you destroy the master (Gravemind=bugger queen), the rest will fall. (flood=bugger drones)


Although I never read Enders Game, the premise along with that of Halo's seem more similar to Starship Troopers than the Bible.

  • 07.12.2006 4:09 PM PDT