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Subject: Gravemind is forerunner flood - debate

I'd die to become immortal,
That's why I play Halo Reach

Since i have no real leaniency either way, i'd like to host a discussion about whether Gravemind is a flood version of a forerunner.

Arguments FOR
* Gravemind seems to have control over Delta Halo's teleportation system
* Gravemind is incredibly intelligent... almost like a forerunner
* Gravemind is also very ancient, maybe even as ancient as the acivation of the Halos
* Even though Gravemind looks nothing like a human (reference to forerunners = humans theory) if we look at the Captain Keyes blob, we can see how even a human is capable of mutating into a Gravemind-esque creature

Arguments AGAINST
* Gravemind is still alive (which indicates that if he was an infected forerunner, he would've starved)
* Gravemind's intelligence could have been acquired from numerous eavesdroppings into Covenant + Human communications
* Gravemind's control over the teleportation system may be some sort of mutation/adaption from existing for so long
* The rumor that humans are forerunner ancestors indicates that forerunners would probably look like humans, which gravemind obviously does not


Add more arguments

  • 07.14.2006 11:34 PM PDT
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yep....gravemind is definally the fore runner.....or a forerunner ate by the flood....


its pretty well known.....and makes lots of sense

  • 07.14.2006 11:53 PM PDT
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Arguments FOR

Gravemind seems to have control over Delta Halo's teleportation system

If he's part machine, managed to tap Halo's teleport grid, or has the Forerunner's ability to teleport. Most likely he used 2401 Penitent Tangent. If he could access teleportation before, why couldn't he teleport himself away earlier?

Gravemind is incredibly intelligent... almost like a forerunner

Of course he's intellegient. He has the knowledge of who knows how many victims of the Flood within him. His brainpower is like a gravitational pull, maybe he even has ESP. Then again, the saying goes(Qui-Gon)-"The ability to speak does not make you intellegient". But I agree nonetheless.

Gravemind is also very ancient, maybe even as ancient as the acivation of the Halos

Forerunner victims in Gravemind since the last outbreak, definately. If he's been around that long to know what happened the last time.

Even though Gravemind looks nothing like a human (reference to forerunners = humans theory) if we look at the Captain Keyes blob, we can see how even a human is capable of mutating into a Gravemind-esque creature

Yes, it would be hard to distinguish through all that tissue. The most noticable aspect is that when Gravemind brings up Regret and 2401 Penitent Tangent, Regret says "Of all the objects our lords left behind, there are none so worthless as these Oracles!". Look up a bit, to the left of the appendage he's hanging from. Human skulls embedded within Gravemind. A macabre creation, yes?

Arguments AGAINST

Gravemind is still alive (which indicates that if he was an infected forerunner, he would've starved)

Flood can go without food for a long, long time. Whatever Forerunner is now Flood.

Gravemind's intelligence could have been acquired from numerous eavesdroppings into Covenant + Human communications

Nah. He must've done alot of eavesdropping then!

Gravemind's control over the teleportation system may be some sort of mutation/adaption from existing for so long

I doubt it.

The rumor that humans are forerunner ancestors indicates that forerunners would probably look like humans, which gravemind obviously does not

As said, the Gravemind is a hulk of tissue and flesh beyond recognition of all that went into him. But, look closer and you'll definately see something.



Ugh, even more horrifying than the Gravemind composition itself is that if you listen closely as MC regains consciousness, you hear low murmuring sounds that sound like "help", "help us", of Gravemind's embedded victims.

No, it's not in the game. Just something I thought of.

[Edited on 7/15/2006]

  • 07.15.2006 12:00 AM PDT
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"Gravemind's intelligence could have been acquired from numerous eavesdroppings into Covenant + Human communications

Nah. He must've done alot of eavesdropping then!"



well i am not word for word or anything....but he says i have listened for rock....blah blah blah...now it is my time to speak meaning he has eavesdropped alot

  • 07.15.2006 12:14 AM PDT
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bungie's already offically announced that gravemind is of flood orgin...

  • 07.15.2006 12:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: howabout2000
"Gravemind's intelligence could have been acquired from numerous eavesdroppings into Covenant + Human communications

Nah. He must've done alot of eavesdropping then!"



well i am not word for word or anything....but he says i have listened for rock....blah blah blah...now it is my time to speak meaning he has eavesdropped alot


His overall knowledge, probably not. Knowing what the humans and Covenant are fighting over, likely so. His analogy makes me believe he can hear and see without actually being present, an ESP perhaps?

  • 07.15.2006 12:20 AM PDT
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by the way that was the wrong name i have no clue why i made.......this is my real one...just incase if any confusion.....both howabouts are the same.....

  • 07.15.2006 12:21 AM PDT
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but you can see how he blends in......the lady used him as a rope


please dont bite my head off for calling her lady....do you know what time it is???

surely if he wants to be there he can be there.....if he is always there......doubtfull....but could happen.......havent played halo1 in a while maybe i will pop it in and see if i see some kind of gravemind thing


or better yet.....the flood is him....so he knows all theat they know.....meaning that the es is wrong....but making everything else alot confusing........

  • 07.15.2006 12:25 AM PDT
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I'm thinking that Gravemind isn't a singular being that super-evolved. He's probably an accumulation of many, many victims.

Which makes me think...

In Halo: Ce, I believe the level "Keyes"... The Flood were piling corpses in the corners of the room inside the Truth and Reconciliation... Maybe they were creating a Gravemind?

-- Griffinhart

PS. The map I'm talking about is the one where you have to go kill the Flood-Keyes.

PPS. And I could be wrong. I probably am wrong. I'm just speculating, after all.

  • 07.15.2006 12:31 AM PDT
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that makes alot of sense....probley wont happen.......but should be in the story...i believe it......wasnt there like 5 people in the body with keyes????

and maybe the flood was scared that keyes would get out the flood somehow.....like break through the skin so that added that extra mutation stuff.....and who would know keyes was a fighter other than the gravemind (the one we saw in 2).....(there could be others)......so he controls all the flood and said do it...wait the whole fuorerunner= human thing could be wrong.....what if the forerunners did look like the grave mind(which kinda looks the cheifs visor)

and here is something.....cortana is screaming and is hurt in one frame in the trailer....and her handprint is in another like in titanic almost......so what is the gravemind doing??????






way off topic......did the graphic novel come out yet????

i wanna watchj ohnson fight the flood

  • 07.15.2006 12:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: howabout2009
and here is something.....cortana is screaming and is hurt in one frame in the trailer....and her handprint is in another like in titanic almost......so what is the gravemind doing??????


Two words: Tentacle. Violation.

-- Griffinhart

[Edited on 7/15/2006]

  • 07.15.2006 12:47 AM PDT
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lol........

[Edited on 7/15/2006]

  • 07.15.2006 12:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: howabout2009
lol........well if she is a hologram...remeber when he touched her........she was like "get off" and he was like "i loke you baby" and she was all like "i got 911 on speed dial" so he got off and she "was feeling like a pimp so go on and dust yo shoulder off".......and so can the gravemind touch things like holograms........is that how he can send her signal to the cheif somehow......are did he eat her and is not gravemind 2.0.....fatter....and more electronical!!!!!


What scares in that post is not the stuff you're saying (or the stuff I think you're saying). It's the blatant relationships with rap/hip-hop, and your horrible grammar. I mean, I can understand not typing everything out. I can even read text when it's not fully typed out/typed out in Netspeak/Chatspeak.

But I can't understand what you said. At all. Something about pimps. And Gravemind touching holograms.

-- Griffinhart

  • 07.15.2006 12:55 AM PDT
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here is it better my dumbass brother who thinks he is a gangster wrote that -blam!-!!!

lol........well if she is a hologram...remeber when he touched her.......she said get off and he did....so can he touch holograms??????........and so can the gravemind touch things like holograms........is that how he can send her signal to the mc somehow......are did he eat her and is now gravemind 2.0.....fatter....and more smart???

where they left cortana....was that the ship...or a ring...i need to play more that live

  • 07.15.2006 1:04 AM PDT
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Gravemind being a forerunner flood is less likely than the MC being black... Doesnt mean the threads will stop, though.

  • 07.15.2006 1:13 AM PDT
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how so.....there is a 100 percent possibility that he is not black...but who know about the gravemind......

  • 07.15.2006 1:19 AM PDT
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I really just cant picture something like Gravemind being a Forerunner.. I think of him more as the only intelligent flood.. Just not sure how he came about, though.

  • 07.15.2006 1:21 AM PDT
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he came about as being the leader.....like vampires.......

  • 07.15.2006 1:38 AM PDT
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I know he's the leader.. But how would he have been created? I doubt a flood just suddenly turned into him one day.

  • 07.15.2006 1:43 AM PDT
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evolution....is by best guess.......

  • 07.15.2006 1:47 AM PDT
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Or maybe.. Gravemind is just a costume, and theres a grunt inside of him! Yeah... I obviously dont know, either.. I just like grunts.

[Edited on 7/15/2006]

  • 07.15.2006 1:51 AM PDT

Youre not Master Chief, but that's OK...

gravemind seems to have mandibles like those of an eleite......just thinking!!!

  • 07.15.2006 1:54 AM PDT
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i got it....there are 50 grunts and the are all wearing a coat and trying to eat something.....so they hit each other and say "i am just going to but this leg i my mouth" and takes half an hour to do so......lol....in like thoose cartoons........

or like all the useless people that the flood consume......they could all be put aside and now are the gravemind while the ones with limps can go out and fight!!!!!


like the flood grunts that no one sees because they are all in the gravemind(s)

  • 07.15.2006 1:55 AM PDT
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Nice howabout, I got a few laughs out of that.. Really though, I prefer joking about Gravemind over the eight paragraph long theories that I'll never read... My real theory though, the forerunners created him to be a leader figure.. Which is the best thing I can come up with.

  • 07.15.2006 1:58 AM PDT
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my thoughts for halo 3....ps...i dont work at bungie nor do i think that i know anyone there


here it is..........

you activate the rings.....one ring for each part of the universe........the rings kills all the flood in a certain range....and the gravemind doesnt want that so he says "dont mistake theese ring for something they are not" to arbby........guilty has been program to say that by the flood.....so everything is going to believe this thing....but see this no ships are firing at the chief in the trailer because they all want the same thing 2 out of 3 prohets are down so that side wants the flood to be stopped...the other want the "great journey" and flood comes to earth...so everyone wants the flood dead...m c doesnt like guilty so he doesnt believe him....cortana will say dont activate the rings because the gravemind is controlling her ......so the cheif doesnt do it.....he breaks cortana free....and she says i was being brainwashed active the rings....and then


a...all the flood is dead
b.....everyone is dead
c......everyone becomes a "higher being"
d......the rings were just fake!!!!!!nothing happens



just what i am thinking by the wAY...

  • 07.15.2006 2:00 AM PDT

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