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Subject: Gravemind is forerunner flood - debate
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Thats not that bad of a theory.. I believe you posted it on another thread earlier.

  • 07.15.2006 2:02 AM PDT
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yep made it like 15-30 minutes ago...didnt know if you read that one i though it was pretty good for a made up as you go story..........

  • 07.15.2006 2:08 AM PDT
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Well.. At least we're keeping the thread alive.. But, back on topic.. Im not really all for the everyone diying idea.. Sure, powerful ending.. I've said it before, though.. The MC shouldnt die, he's a near godly figure.. Killing him off in any way would be a horrible idea... Well, that still wasent on topic, but im out of ideas... So, lets hear some fresh ones...

[Edited on 7/15/2006]

  • 07.15.2006 2:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: AAAAHHHH GRENADE
Since i have no real leaniency either way, i'd like to host a discussion about whether Gravemind is a flood version of a forerunner.

Arguments FOR
* Gravemind seems to have control over Delta Halo's teleportation system
* Gravemind is incredibly intelligent... almost like a forerunner
* Gravemind is also very ancient, maybe even as ancient as the acivation of the Halos
* Even though Gravemind looks nothing like a human (reference to forerunners = humans theory) if we look at the Captain Keyes blob, we can see how even a human is capable of mutating into a Gravemind-esque creature

Arguments AGAINST
* Gravemind is still alive (which indicates that if he was an infected forerunner, he would've starved)
* Gravemind's intelligence could have been acquired from numerous eavesdroppings into Covenant + Human communications
* Gravemind's control over the teleportation system may be some sort of mutation/adaption from existing for so long
* The rumor that humans are forerunner ancestors indicates that forerunners would probably look like humans, which gravemind obviously does not


Add more arguments


What if the captain keyes blob IS Gravemind?

If gravemind is the leader of the flood then he would be the very last to die right?

This proves he has been around as long as the flood.

Gravemind entering Keyes was probably the most strategic move he could make out of the millions of years waiting. This is assuming he has been at installation 04 this whole time. The covenant knew they had to escape the Halo ring before it exploded, it was on to Master Chief's plan. How could they not? At the beginning of Halo2, the would be artiber explained what happened, and that he was the Captain of the "Truth and Reconciliation." If he espaced, he could have easily taken the Keyes-Gravemind with him for further study. After all, they are the ones who are so curious about the mystery of the Halos.

This could also explain how Gravemind got to Delta Halo, the covenant escaped there.

  • 07.15.2006 2:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: Aidoc the Black
Well.. At least we're keeping the thread alive.. But, back on topic.. Im not really all for the everyone diying idea.. Sure, powerful ending.. I've said it before, though.. The MC shouldnt die, he's a near godly figure.. Killing him off in any way would be a horrible idea.


Jesus was a Godly figure, sometimes self sacrifice is the only way to victory.

  • 07.15.2006 2:18 AM PDT
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I said NEAR godly to avoid bringing in religion.. But, it still happened.. The MC is a survivor, and there are many other ways to make a powerful ending.. Barely escaping his death would be pretty exciting... If you want to kill someone off, kill off the Arbiter. :EDIT: Nice theory by the way.. Had to read over it a few times.

[Edited on 7/15/2006]

  • 07.15.2006 2:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: howabout2009
he came about as being the leader.....like vampires.......


And what do you know about us Vampires, hmmm?...

Also, the "Keyes = Gravemind" theory sounds pretty viable as well.

-- Griffinhart

PS. Neo was a near-Godly figure, but the only way he could stop the Man-Machine War was by self-sacrifice. Jesus sacrificed himself for all our sins, according to the Bible. Self-sacrifice for the greater good is a recurring theme in many movies. I mean, c'mon. Every single action movie I've ever seen that starred a black guy ends up killing off the black guy (or at least has him wounded) for the "greater good."

PPS. I'm not saying that I want MC to die. That = teh sux. But... what's he gonna do after he pwnz the Covies? Is he going to re-enact some of those (ocassionally horrifying) Mast Chief-Cortana fanfics? *Shudders*

  • 07.15.2006 4:07 AM PDT
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Does this matter? Either we kill him or someone else does...end of story...

Gravemind is an Brain Form Type Flood...basically it perform the fuction of operating machinary and works with technology. Its like a computer...instead of installing new hardware or program to enable to do more things, the Brain Form "absorb" memories and the skills of it's victims...such as Captain Jacob Keyes in Halo: CE. Eventually...I think that the a certain Brain Form gain enough "education" it becomes a "Leader" Form...basically it operates like an CIC and controls all it's assets, such as the Flood Combat Form. The Leader Form....leads....the Flood...instead of a bunch of mindless walking corpse, it is instead an effective killing unit...even though they look mindless...they have an objective...such as the attempted capture of the Truth and Reconciliation and the capture of In Amber Clad.

I think you all know what I mean...but I don't think Gravemind is a Forerunner...Does Gravemind absorbed a Forerunner before? I think so.

  • 07.15.2006 4:21 AM PDT
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Gravemind's true race was other graveminds, not the flood! Maybe the flood was an aftermath. Forerunners created the graveminds to control the flood which were created to bring the dead back to life! *Getting excited* The graveminds turned on the froerunners and waged a war! Eventually the forerunners won out for a moment and made seven rings to put the seven graveminds on each! But the graveminds somehow managed to re-creat the flood!

Otherwise gravemind is a really old infection form. What do you guys say?

  • 07.15.2006 4:38 AM PDT
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Now that I think about it...

I just reviewed/re-watched some of the material on the bonus disc, and I noticed that Gravemind has a worm-like form. Seeing as a Flood parasite only possesses the body of an organic form and only integrates its DNA with the possessed, wouldn't that mean that Gravemind originally possessed a sentient, intelligent worm-like being?

Assuming Gravemind = Forerunner, that would mean Forerunner = giant worm-thingies.

Assuming Gravemind = Multiple beings, that could mean that the Flood, at later "evolutionary stages" (for the lack of a better term), can actually assimilate several beings and then alter their forms on a much higher/greater/more alarming level.

-- Griffinhart

  • 07.15.2006 6:49 AM PDT
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the gravemind could be a forerunner swallowed by the flood..............but i think this whole forerunners are human is not true........ i know that the cheif and the forerunners are alike....i read that somewhere........ but to think that humans built thoose huge rings.......that is hightly unlikely........notice the gm when its mouth is close kinda looks like the visor of the mc......and his mouth is kinda like the arbby thanks to who ever pointed that out....

  • 07.15.2006 2:12 PM PDT
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ok. Gravemind in halo2 he teportered the MC by the ship wherre truth is at, that is not even on the halo so how is that possible, the arbiter got telaported on the halo so that tseems reasonable correct but, first of all how would he telaport people or objects in the first place

Because High Charity is Forerunner.

  • 07.15.2006 2:35 PM PDT
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yes....but he might also be able to teleport other places too you would never know.....

  • 07.15.2006 2:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: howabout2009
yes....but he might also be able to teleport other places too you would never know.....


If he can teleport anywhere then he would be at Earth right now enjoing a Tequila in Baja California....Ahem...ever heard of the teleportation grid? he only can go to limited number of places that is in the grid...High Charity has one too...cuz it's a rip off of Forerunner technology...and anyways...ever heard of the Bungie Teleporter Blocker Wall? Ya....They made that so Gravemind can't go to Earth...cuz they want to keep Gravemind within the plot of Halo 2.

  • 07.15.2006 3:45 PM PDT
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What if there is a "Gravemind" like being on each Halo? I mean think about it, once the Halo's were built, one Forerunner was left on each to supervise it and on Delta Halo, the flood found this forerunner and infected him.

Just something to ponder.....

  • 07.15.2006 3:53 PM PDT
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What I just mentioned in a recent thread...

Gravemind has absorbed Penitent Tangent and the Prophet of Regret making them a part of himself. You can actually see this in the cut scenes and it also explains how the Flood can pilot warthogs, wraiths and even pelicans. Given this infestation he likely possesses a great deal of Forerunner knowledge through the monitor's files.

This knowledge would have needed to be processed and just like the Keyes organism was created to operate the Truth and Reconciliation so too was another organism created. Thus, Gravemind was born.

That seems infinitely more logical then most ideas.

  • 07.15.2006 4:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: NuclearMage
Posted by: howabout2009
yes....but he might also be able to teleport other places too you would never know.....


If he can teleport anywhere then he would be at Earth right now enjoing a Tequila in Baja California....Ahem...ever heard of the teleportation grid? he only can go to limited number of places that is in the grid...High Charity has one too...cuz it's a rip off of Forerunner technology...and anyways...ever heard of the Bungie Teleporter Blocker Wall? Ya....They made that so Gravemind can't go to Earth...cuz they want to keep Gravemind within the plot of Halo 2.


if they wanted to only put the gravemind in halo 2....answer me this....why is cortana in trouble because she is with him.......cortana is with him....cortana is in number 3......so yes gravemind will be back.......what i want to know is what is cortana doing to send her signal to mc


in the trailer her hand is up to like a window because you can see her fingerprints and her hand...almost lke titanic

  • 07.15.2006 4:08 PM PDT
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back on subject....is this a debate...or what????

  • 07.15.2006 4:14 PM PDT
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Yes, I just pointed out that Gravemind doesn't have to be forerunner to possess his knowledge. The fact he's assimilated Penitent Tangent could explain where he attained his intelligence and mastery of all things forerunner.

  • 07.15.2006 4:19 PM PDT
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No he's not Forerunner. Gravemind is the Flood's collective conciousness. Otherwise known as the brain-type Flood. Think of it like this: 343Guilty Spark is equivalent to the Gravemind, and the Sentinels/Enforcers are equivalent to the Flood's non-brain forms. While the Sentinels/Flood forms do the work for the Gravemind and send back information/memories to the Gravemind, the Gravemind controls the Flood. Another thing about that theory is the fact that along with Halo's activation came the death of all Sentient life. Gravemind=Sentient. That means he would be dead, along with all of the Forerunner. It's been established already that the Covenant already has most of the information that Gravemind has. We've also already established that the Flood can interface with various machinery/electronics/data sources and assimilate it's data. Therefore the Gravemind would have Forerunner knowledge just as Cortana obtained in Halo 1. Whoo. I need to breathe.

  • 07.15.2006 4:49 PM PDT
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From the Art of Halo:

The Gravemind can be thought of as a cross between the Flood's logical evolution and a queen ant. The gravemind is litterally made from the bodies of its enemies and its own fallen warriors reassembled into a massive, tentacled, and intelligent entity.

  • 07.15.2006 4:57 PM PDT

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