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This topic has moved here: Subject: Conversations from the Universe *Revisited*
  • Subject: Conversations from the Universe *Revisited*
Subject: Conversations from the Universe *Revisited*
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After reading a thousand and one threads that look for meaning, story, plot and spoilers within the Halo novels (which may or nay not be canon - that is not an argument for this thread), I felt an urge to re-read something that IS part of the game universe - something intrinsically tied to Halo 2 and therefore, perhaps the most pertinent piece of information we have.

Although this thread is open to discussing ANY aspect of the conversations (with regard to its connection to Halo 3 of course), I am going to open up debate on the few areas which caught my attention today.

Ok, the first story, regarding Revolution 56-11.334 and Revolution eta-condtion, I am interested in the last line: "Excellent! I believe I see assistance approaching... [ends]

Now, broadly speaking, my first reaction to this was 'OMG forerunners must have returned!'. I say this because I was sure that neither humans nor covenant returned to intillation 04 after Chief destoryed it, so logically, the only other thing it could have been was the only other race we are aware of.

...However, (and I need some assistance here) I don't remember how 343GS first appears in Halo 2... does he say how he got there? Who he met? If not, then there are some very interesting holes in this plot thread, which I believe lead to something revelatory in Halo 3. Who else would be classed as 'assistance?' pertinent tangent? Or another of their kind?... mmm

So, secondly:

The artifact on coral. I believe it is fairly clear that the artefact they partially uncover is of Forerunner origin. Now, this interests me for two reasons. Firstly, it the last paragraph "I just pray that we find some clue, some data that can help us in the war". Now, is that just blind hope from a random guy writing a letter to his wife? Or is it perhaps a hint towards the possibly exploration of a new planet? - Which brings me onto my second point of interest - This structure is found on a planet! Surely that means that at one time, THIS is where the Forerunners had one of their colonies (I am not sure enough of this to suggest it would be their homeworld).

Either way, it is an interesting piece that opens up a host of possibilities. If earth is being destroyed, then perhaps we elope to our forfather's world? Is it a safe-haven? What is the structure. It sounds like a pyramid - arcitecturally speaking, that would be relatively consistent with Forerunner structures. Again, it's by no means a solid theory - more of a possibility with some interesting tangental ideas.

Now, the attack on Sacred Promise and Commitment and Patience intrigued me only because of two lines - and I stress here that the link I am about to make is tenuous... at best!

"Contact alpha has fired its main weapon!"

Now, the terminology is interesting - contact alpha is stated as if it is of unknown origin. If it was a covenant starship, wouldn't they call it by its known name? Is this an attack by a new predator? An unexpected visitor?

"We will be entering the primary sattelite's atmosphere in less than three minutes"

Contrarily, this line leads me to believe that this attack is actually a Covenant attack after all. It seems that an attack is being had on a human vessel, and they are just outside the atmosphere of a planet ("Brace for atmospheric entry in...9..8...). Backup is on its way but is taking too long to arrive, and the covenant ship destorys the Sacred Promise.

The talk of a satelite leads me to think that this is a human outpost on earth - at the edge of the atmosphere. They weren't expecting the Covenant to arrive at earth so soon, and the Covenant weren't expecting us to be there.

Next on my list is the eavesdropping of the elites.

One line, one point:

"I suspect we are forcing them into a tighter arena than they care to fight in - soon we may be able to use the Sharquoi".

Now if that wasn't a new character introduction I don't know what is :) I am comfortably confident that we will be facing these behemoths in Halo 3.

Lastly, Cassandra's letter to 117, or as I like to call him, Big Daddy...

I jest...

A few things to mention here - the most obvious is the one I am going to discuss the least - is Cassandra a functional Spartan and wll we see her in Halo 3? My honest answer to that is 'I hope the hell not, because the only path that could lead down is a love interest and I aint' buying that'. But, please discuss.

More importantly, I feel, is this, when she speaks of Chief's new Mark VI armour:

"The choice to incorporate further Covenant technology somehow makes my skin crawl"

I would suggest that on this line alone, it is likely we will see some kind of active camo add-on to 117. I'm not sure what other attributes the Covenant armour have, but if there are any you think would be relevant, please speak up.

Last but not least - The back page references the names of the Covenant. No Sharquoi, but there are engineers. Also, notice how vague the descriptions are when compared to the enemies we know...

...The only meanings I could find for Boo-bag were something akin to a child's pillow or lady's arm bag. Not particularly revealing I know :)

Loogie produced more lucid results: A loogie is a slang expression for a mass of phlegm and saliva that is ejected from the mouth - I imagine this may mean the engineer is a 'slug-like' creature. Slow moving and gunky, but useful in its own way. Pillow/bag may be referring to its shape? Fat... bloated. I'm unsure.

Anyway, I thank you for your patience if you've made it this far. I apologise for any needless expository sentences - I have a tendency to indulge in language. I hope that from this, we can not necessarily learn something new, but rather, add something to the mostly stagnant nature of the Halo 3 theories (various contributors aside of course).

Thank you,

Doc



[Edited on 7/18/2006]

  • 07.18.2006 6:27 AM PDT
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Your first point: Assistance approaching is the "heretic." Remember? they had 343 GS.
2nd point: Interesting, can't debunk that myself.
About the Satellite: A satellite can also refer to a moon. IO orbiting one of the planets in our own solar system has a confirmed atmosphere.

Boo-bag: potentially a flood infection form? they kind of looked like balloons, and were very scary to the marines.

  • 07.18.2006 6:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: AJaflame
Your first point: Assistance approaching is the "heretic." Remember? they had 343 GS.
2nd point: Interesting, can't debunk that myself.
About the Satellite: A satellite can also refer to a moon. IO orbiting one of the planets in our own solar system has a confirmed atmosphere.

Boo-bag: potentially a flood infection form? they kind of looked like balloons, and were very scary to the marines.


Ah, of course - I knew the first point has a logical explanation. Thanks.

As for the flood idea... very possible - that should have crossed my mind - but why would the engineers be flood forms? The Covenant never knew of the flood until they released them on Halo (04)... Or did they?

[Edited on 7/18/2006]

  • 07.18.2006 6:41 AM PDT
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No - no - no, enigneers are not flood, I think one of us misunderstood the other. I don't have my CftU booklet handy right now, I wish I did know where it was I want to see the boo bag part for myself.

  • 07.18.2006 6:48 AM PDT
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Posted by: AJaflame
No - no - no, enigneers are not flood, I think one of us misunderstood the other. I don't have my CftU booklet handy right now, I wish I did know where it was I want to see the boo bag part for myself.


This is the text, as it is typed, on the back page of the CftU.

Engineer/Savant [Loogie. Boo-Bag] Huragok.

For comparison purposes, here is the one referring to the Jackal

Jackal [Buzzard. Chicken. Vulture] Kig-Yar

  • 07.18.2006 6:51 AM PDT
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I can't really come to any kind of conclusion, though in re-reading your post I did detect something else.

More importantly, I feel, is this, when she speaks of Chief's new Mark VI armour:

"The choice to incorporate further Covenant technology somehow makes my skin crawl"

I would suggest that on this line alone, it is likely we will see some kind of active camo add-on to 117. I'm not sure what other attributes the Covenant armour have, but if there are any you think would be relevant, please speak up.


Mark V was Halo 1, Mark VI is Halo2. So we already used Mark VI, and it didn't have any active camo.

  • 07.18.2006 7:03 AM PDT
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Posted by: AJaflame
I can't really come to any kind of conclusion, though in re-reading your post I did detect something else.

More importantly, I feel, is this, when she speaks of Chief's new Mark VI armour:

"The choice to incorporate further Covenant technology somehow makes my skin crawl"

I would suggest that on this line alone, it is likely we will see some kind of active camo add-on to 117. I'm not sure what other attributes the Covenant armour have, but if there are any you think would be relevant, please speak up.


Mark V was Halo 1, Mark VI is Halo2. So we already used Mark VI, and it didn't have any active camo.


The operative word is CHOICE. They CAN upgrade his armour, even if they haven't chosen to yet. I noticed this too. But I don't doubt that there may be an oppertunity to ungrade in H3. Perhaps if Chief gets to a Spartan creation/medical building - perhaps where Cassandra is?

  • 07.18.2006 7:38 AM PDT
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Engineers are the Mister Fix Its of the Covenant world. They are floating sacks with tentacles. Some type of gas that they produce keeps them aloft. They aren't a new flood form. They are a single minded creature. They don't distinguish between enemy and friend, they just fix stuff. In First Strike, an Engineer repairs the MC's damaged armor.

  • 07.18.2006 7:48 AM PDT
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Ahhhhh I got it!!! In the Conversations From The Universe about the Devotion, Sacred Promise, Commitment, and Patience those are not UNSC ships, they are Covenant. They sure sound like Covvie names. And Contact Alpha is not a new race. It is said that the bogey is firing solid projectiles that are closing at 18 km per second... MAC rounds. Also, later on when the ship is about to hit the satellite the captain orders that shields be set to full forward. UNSC ships don't have that option because their shields are titanium. Covenant shields can because they aren't solid in a sense that titanium is.

  • 07.18.2006 8:01 AM PDT
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Bingo! I wanted to say all that, but lost sevice with Bungie, then lost connection with Internet, then had to restart the -blam- computer. But yes, they are covenant ships.

  • 07.18.2006 8:05 AM PDT
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Posted by: Tom 118
Ahhhhh I got it!!! In the Conversations From The Universe about the Devotion, Sacred Promise, Commitment, and Patience those are not UNSC ships, they are Covenant. They sure sound like Covvie names. And Contact Alpha is not a new race. It is said that the bogey is firing solid projectiles that are closing at 18 km per second... MAC rounds. Also, later on when the ship is about to hit the satellite the captain orders that shields be set to full forward. UNSC ships don't have that option because their shields are titanium. Covenant shields can because they aren't solid in a sense that titanium is.


ok, cool, I accept that - but I do think the language used throughout that excerpt is very unlike the Covenant. Read it again. Compare it to the other Covenant conversations.

  • 07.18.2006 8:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: DocRobotnik
Posted by: Tom 118
Ahhhhh I got it!!! In the Conversations From The Universe about the Devotion, Sacred Promise, Commitment, and Patience those are not UNSC ships, they are Covenant. They sure sound like Covvie names. And Contact Alpha is not a new race. It is said that the bogey is firing solid projectiles that are closing at 18 km per second... MAC rounds. Also, later on when the ship is about to hit the satellite the captain orders that shields be set to full forward. UNSC ships don't have that option because their shields are titanium. Covenant shields can because they aren't solid in a sense that titanium is.


ok, cool, I accept that - but I do think the language used throughout that excerpt is very unlike the Covenant. Read it again. Compare it to the other Covenant conversations.



You've got to accept it. Check this out
NAV.: [simultaneous with above] We will be entering the primary satellite\'s atmosphere in less than three minutes... still accelerating, Sir!

CAPT.: All hands not yet evacuated prepare for emergency atmospheric landing!

DC: Sir, structural integrity is under 63%-we have multiple hull breaches spanning several decks-the satellite\'s atmoshpere is nearly non-existent...

CAPT.: [simultaneous with above] Redirect twenty percent (20%) shields aft-if we survive atmospheric entry you may distribute shields as you see fit.

NAV.: Brace for atmospheric entry in 9... 8... 7... 6...


Human ships don't have shields. Only Covenant do. It is possible that they are elites/brutes. Or maybe even an entirely different race?

  • 07.18.2006 8:33 AM PDT
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ok, I'll agree for now :) I concede that the refuting information is weak.

Any ideas on the Forerunner structure on Coral? I'm surprised people haven't made more of a big deal about this.

  • 07.18.2006 8:39 AM PDT
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I would love to make a few forays into a debate about coral. However, I don't know enough about it. Is it mentioned in any of the books? Or is it just on the booklet?

  • 07.18.2006 8:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: AJaflame
I would love to make a few forays into a debate about coral. However, I don't know enough about it. Is it mentioned in any of the books? Or is it just on the booklet?


I'm not sure - I'm not overly familiar with the books, so I'm afraid it leaves us a loose end. However, we DO know that nobody knows much about the Forerunners, so I think we can safely assume not much (if anything) is known about Coral.

However, it would be great to hear from someone who does know.

Anybody???

  • 07.18.2006 9:07 AM PDT
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I have read all three novels several times and I don't recall ever hearing about Coral in any of them, but another novel is due out in October that's title "Ghosts of Coral", which will probably explain everything about this artifact.

  • 07.18.2006 9:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: Dying2live515
I have read all three novels several times and I don't recall ever hearing about Coral in any of them, but another novel is due out in October that's title "Ghosts of Coral", which will probably explain everything about this artifact.


Ah of course - I completely forgot that was the title of the novel. Awesome. That will pretty much guarantee 'some' answers. Thanks D2L.

mmm, I hope whatever revelations the book has, it doesn't take away from the spectacle of Halo 3. I mean, if we read about all these incredible structures thousands of meters in height, we better get to play through them in game :)

  • 07.18.2006 9:28 AM PDT

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Firstly DocRobotnik I'd definately suggest that you read the 3 Halo books. I just finished Fall of Reach yesterday and i'm part way in to The Flood, they're great reads for fans of the series.

Secondly, based on the description in the books, most have come to belive that THIS (on the right and also on the left of the Chief in the darkness) is more or less what the Engineers look like. They are basically techs. They strip don't and reassemble technology to learn how it works.

During a Spartan mission to Cote 'd Azur on Sigma Octanus IV the Cheif saw an engineer comepletely disassemble and reassemble an electric car's engine very quickly.

About Cassandra. I had never thought that see might be a spartan. Its entirely possible that she might even be one of the Spartan IIs. We only learn a handful of their names even though there were more than seventy of them to begin with. And, i find it doubtful that MC would be communicating in letters with anyone other than Dr. Halsey or his fellow Spartans. He left home when he was 6 and the military was his whole life from then on. So, i don't see how he could really meet and get to know anyone else.

Now, lastly, the Forerunner Artifact on Coral. There are hundreds of worlds that have Forerunner artifacts on them, Earth included. They obviously were able to reach, if not settle on, worlds all over the galaxy to create the system of Halos. Further than that, i don't know.

  • 07.18.2006 9:41 AM PDT
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About that picture, that is, indeed, what the engineers look like. Just watch the cutting room floor video on the special edition Halo 2 disc and it talks about them.

  • 07.18.2006 9:45 AM PDT

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Assistance = (Now) Heretic ships coming back in-system, after the Flood Attack.

  • 07.18.2006 9:47 AM PDT
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The language of the bridge crew is too formal for humans. The language is interpreted according to the title at the head of the page, so it is not the exact language used, leading to the use of seconds as opposed to the 'units' used by the Covenant.

  • 07.18.2006 11:50 AM PDT

that which is not dead can eternal lie, but with strange aeons even death may die.

Now, the attack on Sacred Promise and Commitment and Patience intrigued me only because of two lines - and I stress here that the link I am about to make is tenuous... at best!

"Contact alpha has fired its main weapon!"

Now, the terminology is interesting - contact alpha is stated as if it is of unknown origin. If it was a covenant starship, wouldn't they call it by its known name? Is this an attack by a new predator? An unexpected visitor?


I agree It could be a "brute" ship, because they were betrayed, right.
but the covenant always referred to the MAC guns on the human ships as the "main gun" or "main weapon" because it was the main gun,

and the satellite could be a defense station, or just the moon, or anything in space around the planet.

I also belive that it was the heretics that found 343 guilty spark.


[Edited on 7/18/2006]

  • 07.18.2006 12:34 PM PDT

that which is not dead can eternal lie, but with strange aeons even death may die.

The operative word is CHOICE. They CAN upgrade his armour, even if they haven't chosen to yet. I noticed this too. But I don't doubt that there may be an oppertunity to ungrade in H3. Perhaps if Chief gets to a Spartan creation/medical building - perhaps where Cassandra is?

then that MIGHT explain what happened to the master chief armor, possibly the MK VI armor in halo 2 was not the finished version, and the halo 3 armor is...with active camo, or something new.

wow. I think I just solved the secret of this new armor.

  • 07.18.2006 12:39 PM PDT