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  • Subject: Septagon: No longer a community forum?
Subject: Septagon: No longer a community forum?
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Posted by: Rainman89
I know what you mean, gnome.

Even in the short time I've been here, I've noticed a slide in septagon quality. I'm not blaming the mods, there are more tha nenough now, and they aren't in any way the problem. It's just the people, all threads are about questions, custom avatar's and the like, not helping the community. Hopefully once the new members that came post-Halo 3 trailer settly down, the Septagon will be right again.
I am with you, Brother. I am a seasoned internet forum user. I have owned twenty URLs, ran servers for two of them, been forum Moderators in countless forums, been a poster in more than three times as many; basically what I am saying is, I know the ropes and how things work. Usually what happens is you will say start a website, do the maintenance, get members, advertise, etc.

After about two or three years you will have a lovely group of intelligent posters that visit regularly. About two years afterwords (Bungie.net now) you will get an enormous influx of idiots, spammers, a hacker or two, trash talkers, noobs, basically morons that don't deserve to be a part of the site. Now that this happens, idiots somehow weed out the members that make your site great and replace them with more idiots until you have no one left worth running the place for but since you have such a large group, you can't just up and close shop. This will either happen in waves (like now at Bungie.net) or it will steadily increase. After Halo 3 comes out it should 'die down', but now that this is such a wide spread site known in existence by any gamer worth his salt, we will always have those morons.

Regardless whether I am new or not, I am not an idiot, do not spam, and do not annoy other members, I am a law abiding citizen and am here to stay. I can't say that for other new members (ha, yeah, most of them are spammers, etc.), but I can say I will do my part; I like it here and wish it the best.

Now that I have explained myself, I must say I somewhat agree with 'impurity'.

  • 07.19.2006 12:04 PM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
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Yeah, as michael scott would say,

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  • 07.19.2006 12:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: The Lone Heretic
Regardless whether I am new or not, I am not an idiot, do not spam, and do not annoy other members, I am a law abiding citizen and am here to stay. I can't say that for other new members (ha, yeah, most of them are spammers, etc.), but I can say I will do my part; I like it here and wish it the best.


I'd say that the majority are not spammers, per se, but simply new members who feel they have something important to say. To be a spammer you have to be attempting to ruin the forums with constant posts. New members just feel they have news that is important, and want to share, and don't know the proper way to share it. Most of them aren't spammers, they're just new.

Now that I have explained myself, I must say I somewhat agree with 'impurity'.

I believe Impurity when he says the Septagon community is not what it used to be. I have to, because I wasn't here at the time. However, saying that the community isn't as good anymore is simple. I've yet to see a solution put forth on how to fix this problem, and have been saying that for three posts now.

  • 07.19.2006 12:47 PM PDT
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You, of all people, should know the rules of this forum. Keep your disdain for someone to yourself while you're debating a topic. Mabian didn't make any personal attacks on you. You've seen users like him before: obsessed with the politics, status and the like. It shouldn't aggravate you any more than the next user.

You need to calm down right now. The mods respect you and are giving you more leeway than the typical user, yeah, but this is beginning to look more and more like a suicide mission. The internet has enough martyrs, let's just ease off the aggression.

  • 07.19.2006 1:34 PM PDT

-Avatar-

I work for the Department of Defense.

Well, i agree with impurity, I think he has a right to openly express his views on what he belives the Septagon has become, I have no "say" in this matter, but I agree that its not cool to move a topic that boasts a common goal to bring the posters of bungie forums together.

If anything, it should of been stickied or somthing... but thats just what i think.

  • 07.19.2006 1:50 PM PDT
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Eh I'm more PO'd about the threads in the Classifeds for tourneys. Really tourneys should be posted in groups. Really if mods are blacklisting people for posting in the classifeds then they should blacklist people who respond to the tourney sign ups. Both take up space but tourney sign up threads are like permeanent space takers. Thats my opinion ;)

Nah this forum still has much to do about the community. I visit here more than any other forum.

  • 07.19.2006 2:12 PM PDT

*Sgt

I used to post in the Septagon a lot, but Impurity is right. The Septagon is losing its flavor, and Chapter Founders isn't near as active either (it doesn't have that many active posters). Actually, not really "losing the flavor" but changing. And everything changes.
Anyways, I agree once more with Impurity in that the thread should have been left in the Classifieds (did stosh move it back?)

Although this is becoming such a huge deal.. I mean, its a thread in an online forum and we are making such a fuss about it. Don't we have something better to do? Oh, wait - no ^_^

[Edited on 7/19/2006]

  • 07.19.2006 3:33 PM PDT

Posted by: SgtSTFU
I used to post in the Septagon a lot, but Impurity is right. The Septagon is losing its flavor, and Chapter Founders isn't near as active either (it doesn't have that many active posters). Actually, not really "losing the flavor" but changing. And everything changes.
Anyways, I agree once more with Impurity in that the thread should have been left in the Classifieds (did stosh move it back?)

Although this is becoming such a huge deal.. I mean, its a thread in an online forum and we are making such a fuss about it. Don't we have something better to do? Oh, wait - no ^_^


What he said. Which is what i said, on page one.

[Edited on 7/19/2006]

  • 07.19.2006 3:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: sir_brilliant
Posted by: SgtSTFU
Although this is becoming such a huge deal.. I mean, its a thread in an online forum and we are making such a fuss about it. Don't we have something better to do? Oh, wait - no ^_^


What he said. Which is what i said, on page one.


What they both said, which I haven't said yet because I just now read this thread.

[Edited on 7/19/2006]

  • 07.19.2006 4:06 PM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

Yeah, I think we need to just baten(sp?) down the hatches, and wait for the storm to pass, Things will get better, new users get old, and new members(hopefully) get smarter.

  • 07.19.2006 5:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: Rainman89
Yeah, I think we need to just baten(sp?) down the hatches, and wait for the storm to pass, Things will get better, new users get old, and new members(hopefully) get smarter.


True. The cool people always stay long, where as the spammers and insulters leave after a while. But more just always take their place...It's the circle of internet life.

  • 07.19.2006 5:40 PM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

Posted by: Evil Fluffy
Posted by: Rainman89
Yeah, I think we need to just baten(sp?) down the hatches, and wait for the storm to pass, Things will get better, new users get old, and new members(hopefully) get smarter.


True. The cool people always stay long, where as the spammers and insulters leave after a while. But more just always take their place...It's the circle of internet life.


*elton John voice*

It's the Cirlce of Life[/gayness]

yeah, I think we have enough impy's and mabian's and such to last this storm.

  • 07.19.2006 5:48 PM PDT
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But, what if the good smart members leave because of the spammers and the same topics being posted over and over again? What if the positions the cool users had get taken over by new users who handles it in a way the old users doesn't like, or completely disrespect the people they have taken their ideas from but the new users don't know that so they think the copycat is incredibly smart/creative/whatever...?

I've had too many friends here leave, and I really really hate it, but maybe it's just the circle of internet communities?

  • 07.19.2006 5:51 PM PDT

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No cake for the impurator
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| ««,-§§. ____:.______ __' __'__' _ _ _ \=
|............... ||7 ......//--'---,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, /=
`-.,._._._..||__ //

Idiots will come and go. For us sane members, we just have to put up with it and fight it off as best we can. I made an account last Februrary but have been visiting the site/forums since 2003. I just want to have fun, contribute what I can to the community, and play it smart.

  • 07.19.2006 8:14 PM PDT
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Personally i didnt read everyones post in this. But i do read plenty of threads here in the septagon. Generall consensus of threads in this place is to see who can get the neat gold 7th column emblem next to their name, that or get the most popular thread on the front of bungie.

It's all a big pissing contest on this site. Due to immature kids of whom shouldn't have access to a computer or an xbox IMHO. Who can copy what moderator in sayings ?, Who can think of a stupid thread that all the mods will post in ?

What we have here is someone who has generally came up with an Original thread for the community, yes it was an advertisement, but where do you draw the line?

My question is ; How do the mods determine what thread serves a purpose and what thread is there to see if they can get a gold emblem ?

Case in point : Current threads here in the septagon

Which Bungie member has the most PM's to date? <> POINTLESS I woulda locked it.

If you were a moderator, what would your custom avatar look like? <> More than an obvious move to get a mod to respond, I woulda locked it. It serves no point.

Poll: Do you regularly check The Classifieds? <> Good question, but still doesnt help me any... Locked in my opinion.



But when we finally see a thread that is original and would bring great activity to this part of b.net, yet it seems to be thrown on a backburner ?

  • 07.19.2006 9:30 PM PDT
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Do you have what it takes to become a ninja? Join Ninja Academy
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Posted by: ScOuRgE3
Idiots will come and go. For us sane members, we just have to put up with it and fight it off as best we can. I made an account last Februrary but have been visiting the site/forums since 2003. I just want to have fun, contribute what I can to the community, and play it smart.


There are always the private groups. I only post on the public forums when I find a thread that interests me.

  • 07.19.2006 10:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: Simen
But, what if the good smart members leave because of the spammers and the same topics being posted over and over again? What if the positions the cool users had get taken over by new users who handles it in a way the old users doesn't like, or completely disrespect the people they have taken their ideas from but the new users don't know that so they think the copycat is incredibly smart/creative/whatever...?

I've had too many friends here leave, and I really really hate it, but maybe it's just the circle of internet communities?


Yeah. To be frank, I'm amazed you still post, Simen, let alone log in - but I'm glad you do. It's like a gateway into the past to when people weren't all up their own arse and fussed with attention from Bungie or the moderators. I've seen people on here just respond to what Bungie and the moderators say with some overpoweringly lame "joke", ignoring everything else in the thread. That's just one of the problems that has repelled a number of the more tolerable members. Invariably, people will leave anyway, but in alot of internet communities that's because of personal stuff and not because of the community itself.

A couple of my very good friends, who rarely posted publicly because they weren't keen on the community, but who were very active and friendly in the old chapters, left because they didn't like the layout of the new site (on the whole, I think I prefer it, however) nor the lack of column features. That could be a reason for some departures.

But I think the major problem here is the illusion that posting in the Septagon and feigning knowledge of everything Bungie and Bungie.net will get you upgraded to moderator. I see it so often - people aren't just willing to help out. They're motivated not for bettering the community around them but to have a shot at getting internet power to boast their ego in front of thousands of users. They'll just make empty posts ("great idea! I'll help!") and never follow up. And, as I said above, people seem to be more concerned with meeting the mods than the rest of the community. And my concern is that, in some cases, it's starting to work for them.

Note the way the 7th Column Council died? Yes, I agree it could've used some Bungie support. But there were plenty of ideas going around that the people just didn't bother going through with. Or maybe it's just a lack of anything interesting happening. People are just too scared to do stuff with the community. I admit that I haven't posted a Chapter Founders' Week in Review for quite some time because there's just nothing to review.

In addition, there seems to be a Bungie.net-wide misinformation that playing Marathon and knowing your stuff in regards to it makes you more eligible for being selected to ninja. I have some serious gripes with a portion of the Marathon community - the rest of it is very good and has some of the most helpful and friendly members - but said portion is full of wannabes. The Myth community is great in that it keeps itself to itself and doesn't feel a need to get as much attention as possible.

So, that's the problem as I see it. What the community needs is a general attitude shift. People should also be more concerned with participating in groups than having their own to parade around. And groups shouldn't be associated with the founder's ego, either, but that seems to be the case around here. Maybe people are just too competitive for this place to ever work well.

[Edited on 7/20/2006]

  • 07.20.2006 1:37 AM PDT
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I agree with Psyched (however ironic it may seem).

-TGP-

PS. I'm referring to my attitude before I became a mod, not now.

[Edited on 7/20/2006]

  • 07.20.2006 1:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: Simen
I've had too many friends here leave, and I really really hate it, but maybe it's just the circle of internet communities?

I think it is. Eventually, people will move on. As much as I would like it, in the end they just leave. I don't think there is a way to keep all your buddies here. Later on you might leave. Then me, then another, etc.

I admit, we could all try a little harder to slow the progress down. But I doubt it can be stopped.

  • 07.20.2006 1:52 AM PDT

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But I think the major problem here is the illusion that posting in the Septagon and feigning knowledge of everything Bungie and Bungie.net will get you upgraded to moderator. I see it so often - people aren't just willing to help out. They're motivated not for bettering the community around them but to have a shot at getting internet power to boast their ego in front of thousands of users. They'll just make empty posts ("great idea! I'll help!") and never follow up. And, as I said above, people seem to be more concerned with meeting the mods than the rest of the community. And my concern is that, in some cases, it's starting to work for them.

Thats my favourite part. "Internet power". It's not really power. I've been asked to be a moderator on other large websites, admin of my friends forums. All that stuff.

But I turn it all down because I'd just rather have fun posting and talking to people then telling them what they can and can't do. It's just a much more enjoyable expirience that way. even with all the spammers, group conquerors (those are my favourite. it's the internet, your not really conquering anything), The MASS pm spamming to join groups. I can just get rid of those people with a click of a button. Sure I could do the same for the people I enjoy talking to but what would eb the point of that.

n addition, there seems to be a Bungie.net-wide misinformation that playing Marathon and knowing your stuff in regards to it makes you more eligible for being selected to ninja. I have some serious gripes with a portion of the Marathon community - the rest of it is very good and has some of the most helpful and friendly members - but said portion is full of wannabes. The Myth community is great in that it keeps itself to itself and doesn't feel a need to get as much attention as possible.

Of course the only way of becoming a real ninja and not a forum cop is to wrap your self in toilet paper and ju.....

*Gets pulled in server closet*

"Ouch, my liver"

(lol, i r N0F jokes)

  • 07.20.2006 1:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: Psyched
Note the way the 7th Column Council died? Yes, I agree it could've used some Bungie support. But there were plenty of ideas going around that the people just didn't bother going through with. Or maybe it's just a lack of anything interesting happening. People are just too scared to do stuff with the community.

Well, perhaps if you weren't so negative about certain things, and instead helped out...
>.>
<.<
:P

  • 07.20.2006 2:20 AM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

Psyched is right. Even I fell victim early on to the " to be a mod I should post in the septagon, and report bad threads''. All I did was look for bad threads and post links and PM mods, i didn't support the community in any way. Now I realised that all I should have been doing is helping the community, and it would be just as effective as being a mod, just in different ways. It doesn't take a moderator to show a new user the ropes, or to contribute to a project. Every member who does there job is just as helpful to the community as the 16-or so mods we have.

  • 07.20.2006 5:25 AM PDT

Go to your room!


...Well I'm glad that worked, because those would have been terrible last words.

I've been around a for a bit, and in my experience the Septagon never really struck me as a "fun" forum that encouraged participation. And at the end of the day, if you don't have that then something is wrong.

It strikes me as odd that a company, such as Bungie, has a difficulty in turning zeitgeist reviewer acclaim for the Halo series into genuine company "affection" and community building. Take for example the Halo 3 forum. Bloated and pretty crap, but with an infinitely higher turnover of posts and members than the Sept. Why is it that people aren't drawn into the community further, feeling more welcomed?

I would venture that the forum system is flawed. The lack of any sense of progression or acknowledgement when someone does something good contributes to that. I'm not to sure about this, so forgive me if I'm wrong but, isn't there a method for becoming a theme master? That's a great idea to encourage user participation, but it appears to be very slow, and not publicised. Is it being left to "die on the vine"? Perhaps diversifying that and expanding the potential for user interaction with the company.

In the group I moderate, Halo2 UK we introduced a buddy system whereby new members were greated individually and the ice was broken much more quickly. It may seem small, but in my experience, it is just nice to be acknowledged, and creates a much more positive atmosphere.

In terms of moderation, I would suggest that the banhammer is used much too quickly. A simple PM saying, "Look, c'mon now, what are you doing that for? You could be contributing to the community in X, Y and Z ways" creates a bond of trust, and perhaps even turns a 7 day user who flames and uses terrible SPAG (speelling adn gamrmer) into someone who stays on the forums not just because of the games, but because of the people.

  • 07.20.2006 9:23 AM PDT