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Subject: balancing emotion in campaign
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Posted by: SILENCE UK
ok considering everyone in thiis topic has posted wewll thought threads u havev all missed the MAIN obvious rerason for te marines being more confident

if you jusst stick wit what happens in the games its unuderstandabale simply because in halo 1 we get the up on the cov at teh end we blow up halo oand wwe win the first mjor battle against the cov

if you taake the books into account since halo 1 we have blow up a rinig blow up thousands of ships stoolen info and disrupted the lines imensly

so which ever waya u look at it the reason thhe marines are more bgheaded is because they have in their own minds at least reason to be

and sorry for the typingn my keyboard is buggerd


sorry i kind of have to dis agree with u on that. NO marines survived from Halo only Sgt Johnson and only Johnson the chief and some other Spartans were there when they got alll the tech info and blew up all those ships i seriously doubt everyone on earth knew about wat happened cus of 2 reasons 1.The gov was trying to keep it queit that Covenant were destroying everything 2. only about a week or two had passed since the chief had gotten bak maybe even less im not quite sure so i dont think they could of passed all this info to all marines if u see wat im saying

  • 07.23.2006 11:13 AM PDT
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Yeah, the marines in Halo 2 were kind of wimps, I meen, they got scared sometimes, espcially in cutscenes, and with the scarab, but for the wrong reasons. Also, if you had a Spartan with you, I'd sort of feel kickass also, but still, I get what you meen. The covenant seem scared because, 1, their friggin grunts, they're always scared, but as far as them acting more defensivly, well that's because they hear how he destroyed so many covenant, he has quite a reputation as a badass, which the marines hear aswell. In Halo 1, not many soldiers or covenant had experience with Spartans, so they were like "Uh, who's this guy? Whatever, don't get in my way" but now they are like "Wow! A Spartan! Yeah let's kickass marines! *Hides behind the Chief*" The Master Chief was a big moral booster in Halo 2 because they knew what he has done.

  • 07.23.2006 11:30 AM PDT
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thanks for everyone for posting, good opinions. I stick with my original idea that the aliens are cowards. elites are supposed to be equal to the chief and are supposed to inspire the confidence in their troops, they lead them into battle and push them on. i would love it if you came upon an elite and he would say somthing along the lines of "i have waited a long time for this" while drawing a sword or "your time has come demon" instead of doing a suprised jump and yelp followed by hiding behind a box.

they wouldnt even half to speak english in halo 3 because if you remeber, cortana did all the translating for the chief. the elites growling and hunting like a pack of wolves would have a great effect and add immersion.

  • 07.23.2006 11:30 AM PDT
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heres a few example of emotion

halo 1: after you save the first group of marines on the level halo, sargent johnson gives you a dramatic telling of the events along the lines of "thank god you showed up chief, we're scattered all over this valley, i called for reinforcements but.." all the while in a tone which evoked emotion

compared to halo 2: *sigh*when i called for reinforcements...i didnt think they'd send a spartan*yahn*

halo 1: when you emerge from the basement on 343 guilty spark and are greeted by a frightened band of marines who sound like they are actually genuinely terrified of the flood.

halo 2: *yawn* negative maam, they are not covenant, oh ya and when you get some spare time cover that doorway*

a good example of where bungie could have set the tone is on the level outskirts. a perfect beginning would have been where the pelican crashes, the chief shakes of his daze and realizes the entire pelicans crew has been killed. suddenly he hears a muffled cry and lifts up a massive fallen beam revealing sargeant johnson who says somthing witty but thankful along the lines of "how many times have you saved my life now chief...almost time to return the favor". they then survey the wreckage until one of the warthogs comes flying through the roof and gives you the marine reinforcements that you needed.

instead we got a beggining where the marines are completely unhurt from the crash and jump straight into the action while you are still blurry eyed. your the supersoldier, not them

  • 07.23.2006 11:46 AM PDT

I know....How is that possible?

  • 07.23.2006 11:53 AM PDT

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The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

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I hate the fact that it was the same Hispanic guy cracking the same stupid jokes in Halo 2. Hopefully, Halo 3 will make us feel more desperate, thus more immersed in the campaign.

  • 07.23.2006 11:57 AM PDT

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Posted by: Silversoth
Correct me if im wrong, but the humans in Halo CE were more like a space ship crew right? I mean they werent really meant for close combat and therefore they were freaked out by it, however in Halo 2 they are marines who are trained for that type of combat. Plus it wouldnt seem exactly right for the supposedly bad ass ODST's or whatever they are called to be grabbing their heads in fear.
Again I might be wrong but that was the impression that I got anyways
Most of the Marines in Halo were ODST's..I think their section of armory, and stuff got destroyed, like the Spartans' weapons lockers..


You know, the BRs, Magnums, and SMG's were aboard the PoA? There was also possibly even a Mk VII suit of armor, since those were all delivered to REACH shortly before the PoA left REACH to go on their mission to High Charity (then changed to defend REACH when the Covenant arrived, and then they fled to Halo)

  • 07.23.2006 12:03 PM PDT
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Must remember. Halo: CE is more desperate and dramatic, while Halo 2 is "about kicking as much ass in as many ways possible". It was like a kill-fest. Blaring rock music, the Chief moving down, looking all cool with two 'bullet-hoses'.

But yeah, that mood was much needed. The Covenant were almost crazy by the end of it.

  • 07.23.2006 12:04 PM PDT

WAIT!!!! I THOUGHT FRANKIE SAID IN AN UPDATE "the marines will say the same things they did in halo 2"??????????????????????????????

  • 07.23.2006 12:04 PM PDT
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I completly agree

  • 07.23.2006 12:06 PM PDT
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Halo 3 will be more intense. And the player may feel some emotion, But the Chief will remain the awesome emotionless Demon that he has always been.

I definitely think that the NPC's could be more "Emotional" in the stressful end of the world sense.

  • 07.23.2006 12:06 PM PDT

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You are exactly right. I always felt that there was something missing from Halo 2, but i couldn't quite place it. I agree one hundred percent with you.

I mean, come on! Your one of the last of hundreds of spartans fighting for the sake of humanity! How could there be no emotion, cowardace, and heroism in that? I REALLY hope Halo 3 has a good emotional storyline that is combined into the AI and gameplay. Halo 2 was an awesome game, Halo 3 will be awesome too, I have doubt about that.
You're not the last one, you can even see on on "The Pillar of Autumn" ;)

Also, whoever says that most Marines on the PoA weren't accustomed to fighting, you're absolutely wrong. Most were Helljumpers (about 500 of them survived to make it onto Halo, and made Alpha Base after taking it from the Covenant) and their original mission was to get to High Charity, and capture a High Prophet to try and bring abour a cease-fire.

Wouldn't you want the best soldiers for that? I mean, there were about 30 SPARTAN-IIs, and 600 Helljumpers..along wit the PoA's re-enforced Hull, and nested Archer pods, along with it's MAC Gun that shoots 3 rounds, rather than one.

Posted by: penguin
WAIT!!!! I THOUGHT FRANKIE SAID IN AN UPDATE "the marines will say the same things they did in halo 2"??????????????????????????????
He did. They are place Holders, since they haven't gotten voice actors yet.

  • 07.23.2006 12:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: blackrussian
you remember in halo 1 when you had the feeling of complete isolation and desperation, where you felt that you were the last hope for humanity. any marines you found were fighting for their lives and would have surely died had you not shown up. the covenant was relentlessly agressive, suppressed you with fire and annihilated any human caught in the crossfire. without hesitation they forced you from cover and tried to end your life, all the while looking like a savage band of animals

these feelings were sorely missing from halo 2. the marines were overconfident and sounded as if the war was mearly a walk in the park and that they would surely survive. the aliens were docile, too eager to take cover, not nearly as agressive and simply allowed you to set up where you wanted and take the prime shots. the also seemed as though they were afraid of the chief. all in all the dialouge did nothing for the immersive feeling of desperation that halo 1 gave.

in halo 3 we need powerful dialouge that plays upon these emotions. we need agressive AI that forces you to move and think rather than the other way around. we need desperate characters that need you to survive. and we need elites that savour the chance to battle you and are animalistic and hunter-like that stalk and move...much like the halo 2 trailer at E3..you remeber the famous "bet you cant stick it part"


True that the Marines seemed not as afraid as they had in the previous game but you have to remember now the Covenant have stepped foot on Earth the home planet of the Human race i guaruntee you that Every Marine has had enough of the Covenant and is willing to die to defend the Earth unlike Marines stranded on a Halo who just wanted to go home. Also Marines are known to regain confidence and renew thier will to fight when a Spartan arrives in battle to aid them.

  • 07.23.2006 12:21 PM PDT
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Look from my POV, it's almost the end of the world hope is but an ember in the ashes of Earth, the fate of the galaxy hangs by a string, all odds are off, Earth is occupied, the flood could be comming, and the Covenant want to activate Halo and wipe out everything, Cortana is nuts or something, there are few or no marines to speak of, add a little tad of DOOM 3 dom to the FPS parts, where the enemy could be anywhere (like the flood lockdown guilty spark343) and in an instant, and if you start out with inferrior weapons, and are outnumbered one million to one, i think you begin to lock on to theright emoution, but most importantly is ambience and MUSIC. The flood music was good but find something more scary and despret and of course at times no sound at all but maybe accasional scary sounds from the enemy, too much like DOOM 3 sorry but... IT is THE END of the WORLD!

  • 07.23.2006 12:26 PM PDT
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Ah yes... the music. That was also lacking in Halo 2. It was all good, but alot of it didn't give the same feel as it did in the first game. There was just too much "whatever kick some butt" rock and not enough of the softer, more mysterious stuff.

  • 07.23.2006 12:31 PM PDT
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Thats exactally what i'm talking, ambience!

  • 07.23.2006 12:34 PM PDT

*drools* I LOVE HALO MUSIC!!!! Maybe becuase halo 3 is "darker" they will have "darker" music!

  • 07.23.2006 12:42 PM PDT

Posted by: fallen snow hero
Posted by: Nesral301
My opinion does not matter.

And my opinion tells you to go to hell.

They need more of the stuff you felt when on the level 343 GS. Walking into a completely silent, tomblike structure, with blood and destruction everywhere, but no bodies. The few covenant that were there were on edge and distracted. it freaked me out the first time i encountered the flood. They need more of that.

  • 07.23.2006 12:49 PM PDT

Posted by: rugby_rox
They need more of the stuff you felt when on the level 343 GS. Walking into a completely silent, tomblike structure, with blood and destruction everywhere, but no bodies. The few covenant that were there were on edge and distracted. it freaked me out the first time i encountered the flood. They need more of that.


ME TOO!!! *shivers*

  • 07.23.2006 12:51 PM PDT
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The flood music was good but find something more scary and despret and of course at times no sound at all but maybe accasional scary sounds from the enemy, too much like DOOM 3 sorry but... IT is THE END of the WORLD!

Not at all. In fact, I loved the Flood theme music sketch from Halo. And Doom 3 is not scary, a little gut wrenching maybe to see gallons of blood splattering every room. What's scary is how the guys at ID can draw pentagrams so well you'd think they're satanist or something.

I know this has nothing do do wtih the topic itself, as it implies the Marines, but I'll say it anyway. Some people have suggested showing a more emotional, human side to MC than just a machine(even the Terminator understood emotions-as he once said "I know why you cry, but it is something I can never do"). Thinking back on it, I'm picturing this:

In the beginning, MC is still in the hold of the Forerunner Ship as it approaches Earth. The music that plays has a sad and doeful theme to it as the camera closes up on MC. He's leaning against the hull a bit looking dazed by the way he stands as if half-asleep. From the MC's point of view, the screen blurs into a dream-like state. He's having flashbacks-His allies falling in agony around him as the sky of Reach is blotted out by clouds of Covenant dropships. Desperate Marines loading Linda to evacuate, Reach's sky turns hellish purple, from the echoing screams of the dead and dying as Marines fall on Halo. Hundreds of Covenant admist a dust-blown battlefield firing intensely refusing to give ground(supposedly on Reach). Echoing sniper shots, faint Grunt screams. All the times he mercilessly gunned down the Covenant, low murmuring sounds of the dead that haunts him up as to the point Cortana waves him bye-bye on High Charity as the Forerunner Ship launches.

The MC lets out a deep mournful sigh and shakes his head a bit. Then a jolt snaps him out of it...

Well, that could potentially be one if not the only scene showing MC's emotional side. Now, as we were saying??

  • 07.23.2006 12:52 PM PDT
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Dark Jester 86 is the Gamer tag.

You're exactly right and that is why I like playing as the Arbiter better, because the Covenant seemed more serious, and they knelt next to their dead and gave their regards. The Covenant should have been the ones laughing at us. Well... no it's war so both sides a\should be sreious. I yearn for that feeling too, Halo Combat Evolved was such a powerful videogame.

  • 07.23.2006 1:02 PM PDT
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The Elites liked to laugh when they killed my Marine buddies in Halo 1... I miss that laugh. It was so evil sounding!

  • 07.23.2006 1:06 PM PDT

I'd just be the one laughing in halo 2.....WHAT?

  • 07.23.2006 1:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: penguin
I'd just be the one laughing in halo 2.....WHAT?


I didn't remember them laughing in Halo 2. Maybe I should stop trolling forums and play more -_-

  • 07.23.2006 1:09 PM PDT
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Youre right, some human, and some cold calculated machine, but being that earth is completeley oppressed and the Covenenant walk free it's surface and god knows how many died trying to stop them and all the hard worlk and all thoes that died following the Master Chief, i don't know about you but i think i'd be on the edge of sad / rage / psycottic, add in the cold machine and hell he's meaner and tougher and more "demon" like than ever, so maybe some sorrow / dark music like (sorry didbn't see your name) suggested. I guess what i'm trying to say is now Human emotion is his prymary OS not the machine anymore this "IS PERSONAL". Oh yeah also in the little phamplett that came with the Halo 2 Specal Edit didn't he have some sort of wife or whatever before his conversion, if that is true was she one of the ones working on that excavation (ya know from the excavation log) and if the covenant killed the excavation crew and the chief where to find out, oh Sh** talk about personell it'll turn into a revenge spree pretty fast, who knows the MasterChief then himself could turn a little evil, cheze.

Oh looked into the phamplett it's titled "Converstions from the Universe" is the MC's real name John in which case the letter on the very last page is to him from a "Cassandra". She comments about being on a medstation of some sort and is being "Reskinned" (whatever that means) i don't know maybe you guys can shed some more light on these details?

[Edited on 7/23/2006]

  • 07.23.2006 1:10 PM PDT

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