Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Sentient life, flood, Gravemind, plot hole?
  • Subject: Sentient life, flood, Gravemind, plot hole?
Subject: Sentient life, flood, Gravemind, plot hole?
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

.........IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
.........IIIII..............IIIIII
.........IIII....IIIIIIIIIII...IIIII
.........IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII....IIIII
.........IIIIIIIIIIIII........IIIII
.........IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII....IIIII
.........IIII....IIIIIIIIII... IIII
.........IIIII..............IIIII
Halo.IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII is coming.........act busy. I got a 360

Moderator Notice: This user has been blacklisted from this forum. Until the user is removed from the blacklist, all posts this user has made have been hidden, and all topics created by this user have been censored.
  • 07.27.2006 12:07 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Cas7er
  • user homepage:

The Flood are capable of inheriting the memories of their host. Which would mean that the Flood form, is resonably sentient (self-aware and intelligent). Gravemind is a larger mass of hosts. Therefore, the sum of Graveminds intelligence is the product of each host absorbed. Furthermore, Gravemind would then inhereit several, possibly conflicting intelligances, memories, etc. Something, has to govern all this intelligance, I believe from this neccesity, comes the soverign intelligance of the Flood, what we know as Gravemind. This is just speculation based on minimal data deduction, though. Who knows, I am sure light will be shed on that.

  • 07.27.2006 12:12 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

This was my -blam!- idea you ass whole

  • 07.27.2006 12:17 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Cas7er
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Nsaneman
Posted by: High Truth
The Flood are capable of inheriting the memories of their host. Which would mean that the Flood form, is resonably sentient (self-aware and intelligent). Gravemind is a larger mass of hosts. Therefore, the sum of Graveminds intelligence is the product of each host absorbed. Furthermore, Gravemind would then inhereit several, possibly conflicting intelligances, memories, etc. Something, has to govern all this intelligance, I believe from this neccesity, comes the soverign intelligance of the Flood, what we know as Gravemind. This is just speculation based on minimal data deduction, though. Who knows, I am sure light will be shed on that.


Yes but this intelligence would make them sentient. the flood are not intelligent enough to be sentient but gravemind IS sentient, and the flood is NOT. Something is not right. What makes gravemind sentient and the flood not. your theory purposes an answer to this. like I said in OP many doors.


I see what you are saying. Like I said though, the Flood inhereit the memories of their host, so each Flood Infection Form, would have sentients based on the self-awareness attained from the the host it has infected. If all the Flood work the same way, then it wouldn't be awkward to think that the Flood Infection Forms have a governing Will or presence to use the information asertained from the host, therefore a type of "stupid-sentients".

  • 07.27.2006 12:17 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=7963239 there it is its already in the forum b4 this came up

  • 07.27.2006 12:18 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

The only thing supporting this theory would be the fact that the flood could have evolved into gravemind.

  • 07.27.2006 12:22 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

343 GS also states that the rings, when activated, eliminate all species of sufficient biomass to sustain the flood. Now this is rather confusing when put next to the elimination of all sentient life as well. If we follow the biomass statment then we could say that becasue Gravemind is already Flood that he cannot be destroyed. But when used with the sentient idea then there is a contradiction.

[Edited on 7/27/2006]

  • 07.27.2006 12:58 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Cas7er
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Nsaneman
Posted by: DUDEHALO3
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=7963239 there it is its already in the forum b4 this came up


sry to burst your bubble but we are on two different subjects.

You are talking about how he could "affect cortana" I am saying how the halo's could hurt him. So plz stop spamming my thread

Now to answer High Truth

So all flood are capable of "becoming" sentient. So I am guessing this is a plot hole. because eventually the flood could be hurt by halo.


You keep bringing up that the Halos kill all sentient life. I address your attention to this quote:

343 Guilty Spark:
The rings were designed to eliminate all life in the galaxy, or at least all those with sufficient bio-mass to sustain the Flood...


There are certian things the Flood need to have a host.

One) Sufficent Bio-Mass

Two) Sufficent Calcium Stores

Three) Cognative Ability

Therefore, Halo hurts the Flood in two ways, it takes away its hosts, and destroys already infected hosts. Since the Flood Infection Form is the largest bio-mass the Flood can create without a host. I believe that once the Flood becomes an Infection form, it is capable of 'Sentients'.

To answer your original question, Halo hurts the Flood who have infected a host with the three aforementioned attributes needed for infection.

  • 07.27.2006 1:24 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Look for one thing there may well have been a GRavemind before and after Halo, there might be even more than one. Refer to High Truths post. WHat you seem to be missing is. THe Halos probably would wipe out Gravemind. THat might just be one of the reasons he doesnt want Halos activated maybe. Theres no real plothole there at all....

  • 07.27.2006 1:53 AM PDT

I'll have you know
that I've become
Indestructible!

I don't think that the Gravemind is sentient/sapient.
Though he is capable of expressing "I am", to me he seems to be speaking on behalf of different beings at different times... sort of an "undermind", if that makes any sense at all.

  • 07.27.2006 5:31 AM PDT

That's one of the reasons the Halo story died a little for me - when I saw Audrey appear on screen spouting shakespearian prose. It was just ridiculous. I just felt there was no credibility there... and now thanks to him there's no credibility to the flood either.

  • 07.27.2006 5:34 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

No offense but this isn't anything new. I see where you're going with this and what you're trying to get out of it and you're right, but this information is actually divulged in the material we've already had:

When the rings destroy all sentient life the flood starve and are forced to devolve into their most basic state and hibernate to survive. This alone would incline that there would be no Gravemind at this period, surviving the rings or not.

This information alone tells me that unless theres something special about Gravemind, he was formed after the firing of Halo (and with that being said, he was probably formed after the RELEASE of the flood). Most people assume Gravemind is an ancient entity, I'm more inclined to believe with the information we have that he's actually reletively new, formed sometime after the beginning of the game Halo: CE unless the other Halos had a Flood problem prior to all this (which they didn't to our knowledge, since the covenant had never come in contact with the parasites before).

Anywho, the only thing suprising to me would be if Gravemind WAS old and WAS around prior to original firing of Halo, because survive or not - The flood devolved and hibernated, effectively starting them over - until food presented itself yet again.

Now, that isn't to say the concious collective ever died. I believe Gravemind mentally retains the knowledge of the flood as he is the 'embodiment' of their collective concious, so to speak - or so it seems. So in a sense, he is a very old entity (I have listened through time quote anybody?). I've always compared the Flood to Borg in that respect, you may want to start calling Gravemind "they" instead of "he". Physically though, this particular gravemind I would imagine is new - but I have no doubt he contains the knowledge of the Flood since their (it's) original creation.

  • 07.27.2006 7:52 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Mythic Member

I am...whimsical today.

Posted by: Nsaneman
SENTIENT LIFE FORMS.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sentient: Having sense perception; conscious.

The flood (being mindless being runnning on INSTINCT) are not sentient life forms, because they run instinct not (above definition). This is a well known fact, I know, But now to my point.
I think the Flood are sentient. They react to their surroundings, they can manipulate objects etc. My Dog is sentient, she can see a ball being thrown, pick it up and bring it to me. The Flood are definitely conscious.
Gravemind is sapient, he is self aware, and more advanced than the 'regular' Flood forms.

This doesn't really effect your theory, although the Flood, or at least their hosts, would also be at risk from the Halo Network.

  • 07.27.2006 8:05 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Gravemind is a flood, the rings kill all sentinent life able to be controlled by the flood. The flood don't control Gravemind it's the other way around....By the way if you don't understand what I just said good I like confusing people.

  • 07.27.2006 8:05 AM PDT

Posted by: HansgruberXXV
343 GS also states that the rings, when activated, eliminate all species of sufficient biomass to sustain the flood. Now this is rather confusing when put next to the elimination of all sentient life as well. If we follow the biomass statment then we could say that becasue Gravemind is already Flood that he cannot be destroyed. But when used with the sentient idea then there is a contradiction.


I always figured that Gravemind was sentient but not alive. Isn't that why he's named Gravemind? Grave = dead / undead / whatever you want to call a Flood state of existence, and Mind = sentient, intelligent. Therefore he is immune to the effects of the rings firing because he is not a lifeform at all (although he is somehow sentient). Likewise, he is massive but doesn't qualify as biomass because he is made of dead and decaying corpses.

  • 07.27.2006 10:50 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

is grave mind good or evil and witch game does he come in at

  • 07.27.2006 4:28 PM PDT

Hail to the Victors! Reppin' that MAIZE n BLUE!!!
Perfect Grenade
Chill bro. Gotta get my bowl.

The rings don't kill sentient life, they kill all sentient life capable of sustaining the flood. So Gravemind is excluded from that.

  • 07.27.2006 4:34 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

good eye. this will probably be addressed in halo 3

  • 07.27.2006 4:35 PM PDT