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Subject: The Return of the Council!

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Poll: Rate the Council idea: *Read post first! Read post first! Read post...  [closed]
Great!:  38%
(12 Votes)
Good.:  28%
(9 Votes)
Moderate.:  12%
(4 Votes)
Poor.:  6%
(2 Votes)
Terrible!:  16%
(5 Votes)
Total Votes: 32

If anyone here remembers Goweb's old thread on the Council, this is a bit of a continuation of that. It was moved to make room for more stickies and sort of lost its place, slowly drifting into the abyss. But, on a whim, I decided why not make a new one? Whether you know or not, a handful of willing members have been discussing the idea in a group, The Council Chambers, listed at the bottom of the page for the curious.

NOTE: Everything in that group is 100% unofficial! The Council has *NOT* been given the OK by Bungie, so that has all been decided by the users!

Alrighty. If you haven't the foggiest idea as to what the Council is, I have thirty-eight action-packed pages of deliberating you can browse through in Goweb's old thread. Kudos to Toast for keeping this in a sticky, and to Goweb for making the thread to start with!

¡ T3h Council thread!

Now, onto the "condensed" description. The Council, as our group and the majority of people affiliated with the idea understand it, is a body of members, representing the community of Bungie.net, who help to bring the community, namely the 7th Column, back to life. That means that the Council would run the Chapter Spotlight, highlight certain community events (tournaments, fan-fests, that sort of thing), and help to organize and endorse contests. I'm sure I'm missing something, so help correct any mistakes I've made. I'm sure I'll beediting this later, but I just want to get it out right now. What do you all think about the idea? Good? Bad? My opinion on it is yes, it's a good idea. Someone should do these jobs. Will it ever get implemented? Unlikely.

You may have noticed a few spotlights in the past- those were The Council Chambers. Unfortunately, we really need more support with this. We're commited, but we have lives too. Join the group, which can be found on my Groups page (Named The Council Chambers) and go to the Position Request Thread. Read it and post accordingly. I'm not going to link without the mods premission, advertising and all.

[Edited on 7/30/2006]

  • 07.30.2006 6:59 PM PDT
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Oh, get lost. The council needs to stay dead, it's a group of snobby members who think they can make themselves above everyone else and believe that they alone are the community and that the vast majority of members (namely the regulars of the flood and new mombasa) are simply intruders. It always was like this, and likely always will be, it's also the sole reason I've stayed out of every single "council"-related matter in my 28 months here; it's sheer snobbery. The community can make themselves known, they do not need a "select few" who never stray beyond the septagon to do it for them.

/rant.

edited for typo and general crap

[Edited on 7/30/2006]

  • 07.30.2006 7:14 PM PDT
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At first I was wary of the idea of a Council, of course that was back before I really knew the community and the members on the list of Council hopefuls. Obviously now my feelings on the matter have changed, although I fear that this is yet another cycle of discussion only doomed to end like all others before it. I hope that doesn't happen this time around.

  • 07.30.2006 7:23 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Posted by: elmicker
Oh, get lost. The council needs to stay dead, it's a group of snobby members who think they can make themselves above everyone else and believe that they alone are the community and that the vast majority of members (namely the regulars of the flood and new mombasa) are simply intruders. It always was like this, and likely always will be, it's also the sole reason I've stayed out of every single "council"-related matter in my 28 months here; it's sheer snobbery. The community can make themselves known, they do not need a "select few" who never stray beyond the septagon to do it for them.

/rant.

edited for typo and general crap


First off, I think you need to get off your high horse. There are things called manners. Civilized people use them. So please shut the -blam!- up and treat me with at least an ounce of respect. I took the time to write that, now the least you can do is take the time to explain yourself without resorting to childish behavior.

Now. What is snobby about wanting to make a Chapter Spotlight? Did you look in anything I linked or refrenced? Do you even have a clue as to what you so passionately hate? No. When you take time to do that, I'll take time to write up a defense. What can I defend myself and other from right now? I'll play it out for you.

"I'm not a snob, and I actually think this would bring something to the community. Not only that, but a lot of other people agree with me."

"Yes you are, and more people agree with me."

"No I'm not."

"Yes you are."

  • 07.30.2006 7:36 PM PDT
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It was a rant, it was meant to blow off steam abotu a matter that's been irritating me for the last 2 years. I'm surprised i kept it that civil myself.

The reason i called it snobby is simple. Do you see the masses of b.net crying out to be given a voice closer to the overlord? No, you don't, yet you feel an intense and burning need to be that voice, so you go about collecting your squad of voicers and give yourself a pretentious title like "The council" and supposedly discuss matters of how to improve the community, when your idea of the community stops at the first word "Halo" on the right. You even said it yourself:

Posted by: Pink Menace
The Council, as our group and the majority of people affiliated with the idea understand it, is a body of members, representing the community of Bungie.net, who help to bring the community, namely the 7th Column...


Bungie.Net does not need representing. Achronos and his helpers do not need a little squad filtering out what they deem to be unreasonable. He is just as capable of reading this forum as you are; probably more so in fact. The only reason you wish to make this council again is because you wish to give your felt superiority over newer members from other parts of the forums where you never go, an ounce of official endorsement.

  • 07.30.2006 7:46 PM PDT
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A chapter spotlight would be cool, but seeing as how I never payed attention to the first council I really don't have an opinion.

  • 07.30.2006 7:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: elmicker
your idea of the community stops at the first word "Halo" on the right. You even said it yourself:

Posted by: Pink Menace
The Council, as our group and the majority of people affiliated with the idea understand it, is a body of members, representing the community of Bungie.net, who help to bring the community, namely the 7th Column...

For further reference, the 7th Column is the Bungie community as a whole.

*edi7*
Here is one the Chapter Spotlights done by the Chambers. Halo related.

[Edited on 7/30/2006]

  • 07.30.2006 7:57 PM PDT
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Well if you're going to nitpick, the 7th column was the name of the chapter system, before the whole "everyone gets to make as many groups as they can think of names for" system we have now, and with the demise of that system, the term is pretty redundant, though still referenced in this very forum's description

The septagon
7th column and community


Note that they are seperate entities. The 7th column was the chapters, the community was everyone, though the 7th column was a key part of the community. Though, as i've said, the term is redundant, though is occasionally used to refer to the regulars of The underground and The Septagon, which as everyone should know, is the smallest minority group (perhaps excepting the maw) on bungie.net; by no means the community.


Posted by: Gnome
Posted by: elmicker
your idea of the community stops at the first word "Halo" on the right. You even said it yourself:

Posted by: Pink Menace
The Council, as our group and the majority of people affiliated with the idea understand it, is a body of members, representing the community of Bungie.net, who help to bring the community, namely the 7th Column...

For further reference, the 7th Column is the Bungie community as a whole.

  • 07.30.2006 8:04 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Posted by: elmicker
It was a rant, it was meant to blow off steam abotu a matter that's been irritating me for the last 2 years. I'm surprised i kept it that civil myself.


I don't care how impressed with yourself you are. Please show me some respect.

Posted by: elmicker
The reason i called it snobby is simple. Do you see the masses of b.net crying out to be given a voice closer to the overlord?


That's strange. I could have sworn that a hundred or so people posted in the Council thread. The Council Chambers has 93 members. Seems like a fair enough sized group to me.

Posted by: elmicker
No, you don't, yet you feel an intense and burning need to be that voice, so you go about collecting your squad of voicers and give yourself a pretentious title like "The council" and supposedly discuss matters of how to improve the community,...


I've gone over this. Goweb seemed to think it was a good enough idea. And he gave it the "pretentious title" that you're so angry at. Not only that, but he moderates these forums and deals with a lot of the stuff that goes on around here. He seems like a good enough resource to go to about what causes certain things in the community.

Posted by: elmicker
...when your idea of the community stops at the first word "Halo" on the right. You even said it yourself:
Posted by: Pink Menace
The Council, as our group and the majority of people affiliated with the idea understand it, is a body of members, representing the community of Bungie.net, who help to bring the community, namely the 7th Column...


Yes. It's called the 7th Column Council. That was the biggest givaway that it was mostly Column oriented for me. What are we trying to do? Bring the 7th Column back to life. One of the biggest jobs of it is the Chapter Spotlight. We scour the Column for interesting groups, groups that have something unique to them, and showcase them for a bit. We aren't trying to hide anything- this is all about the Column. I'm not sure why you made a big deal about this.

Posted by: elmicker
Bungie.Net does not need representing. Achronos and his helpers do not need a little squad filtering out what they deem to be unreasonable.


Perhaps I should have gone deeper into that bit, rather then trusting you to think, or perhaps research it. It may not need representing. That was a bad choice of words on my part. I can understand your anger at that. But I'm not sure where you're getting the whole "Squad of little helpers" from. It sounds to me like you ran out of things to twist, so you decided to make a few up. We don't throw anything out. We only do the things I stated in my original post, which you apparently didn't read.

Posted by: elmicker
He is just as capable of reading this forum as you are; probably more so in fact. The only reason you wish to make this council again is because you wish to give your felt superiority over newer members from other parts of the forums where you never go, an ounce of official endorsement.


Again, you haven't the slightest clue as to what you're talking about. Did you not read the "This is 100% unofficial" bit above? And no, I don't. In fact, I'm not on the Council. Three mods used to be on it, but since they were appointed mods they were removed. Obviously we seem to have some good taste, seeing as Toast, Just Another Fan and BobBQ were all on our list of who we would like to have as Councilers. So if you care to tell them all that they're simply power hungry, pretentious snobs, feel free. You should probably tell Achronos that too, since he'll want to know that he picked the wrong people. And you might want to tell the mods who suggested them that.

[Edited on 7/30/2006]

  • 07.30.2006 8:08 PM PDT
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You'd be surprised to find i do actually dislike the latest choice of mods; a few of them (not naming names) i would actually group into the "We're better than thou" subsection. And you know, i'm allowed to say that; I dislike them as people, that is opinion, but i have no idea as to how they'll perform as mods; the best of luck to them. You'll also be pleasently surprised that i did, for a fleeting moment, consider composing a PM to either the master ninjas or Achronos himself enquiring as to the reason behind the choice of the latest batch, but i've decided to keep my opnions on people and the resultant opnions on how i believe they'll do their jobs seperate, for a while at least.

The point i am trying to make is that a council is not necessary. The reason the septagon exists is to allow the member of the b.net community to make their voices heard. They do not need a select group to do it, and certainly not a select group selected by the select group itself; that's called inbreeding.

  • 07.30.2006 8:21 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Posted by: elmicker
You'd be surprised to find i do actually dislike the latest choice of mods; a few of them (not naming names) i would actually group into the "We're better than thou" subsection. And you know, i'm allowed to say that; I dislike them as people, that is opinion, but i have no idea as to how they'll perform as mods; the best of luck to them. You'll also be pleasently surprised that i did, for a fleeting moment, consider composing a PM to either the master ninjas or Achronos himself enquiring as to the reason behind the choice of the latest batch, but i've decided to keep my opnions on people and the resultant opnions on how i believe they'll do their jobs seperate, for a while at least.

The point i am trying to make is that a council is not necessary. The reason the septagon exists is to allow the member of the b.net community to make their voices heard. They do not need a select group to do it, and certainly not a select group selected by the select group itself; that's called inbreeding.


Alright. Your opinions on the mods are your own. But Achronos trusted them, and that's good enough for me.

EDIT: Fixed a typo here.

And it's your opinion that it is not needed. We attempted to get a large vote. I've PMed Achronos numerous times about support for the Council, but never recieved a concrete response. You still have a lot of misconceptions about the Council that you need to clear up before you insult us.



[Edited on 7/30/2006]

  • 07.30.2006 8:27 PM PDT
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You're saying you want to make a council meant to convey the community's opnion on things, yet say my opnion is not needed because i disagree with you?

Wow. Took the last council or two at least a month of activity before they reached the point of rejection on the grounds of simple disagreement.

  • 07.30.2006 8:31 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Posted by: elmicker
You're saying you want to make a council meant to convey the community's opnion on things, yet say my opnion is not needed because i disagree with you?

Wow. Took the last council or two at least a month of activity before they reached the point of rejection on the grounds of simple disagreement.


That was a typo. It was supposed to read "It is your opinion that it is not needed". It, of course, being the Council. I meant quite the opposite of what you're implying. I was trying to say that you may not thing it's needed, but that is only your opinion. You do not speak for the community either.

And I wasn't aware that there was ever a Council. And I wasn't aware that it ever failed.

[Edited on 7/30/2006]

  • 07.30.2006 8:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: elmicker
You're saying you want to make a council meant to convey the community's opnion on things, yet say my opnion is not needed because i disagree with you?

The council is meant to 'convey' the community's opinion on things, and since you are a member of that community then your opinion does matter, along side of everyone else's equally.

  • 07.30.2006 8:39 PM PDT
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It can't work. Even if you got the support you need from Bungie, it would just turn into an elitist, power-trip position.

I really would love for KP to run the Chapter Spotlight page......

  • 07.30.2006 8:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: Kilroy
It can't work. Even if you got the support you need from Bungie, it would just turn into an elitist, power-trip position.

I really would love for KP to run the Chapter Spotlight page......

I belive in the past talks, the council consisted of at least one Bungie employee to keep the elitism down and have a medium for talks between the community and Bungie. If you look at the situation there was never truly anyone who would be able to do that at Bungie (Mainly time restraints) but now we do have KP. Just a thought.

  • 07.30.2006 8:46 PM PDT
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But there's no need for a council! Bungie employees read the forums. We can convey our needs and wants to them through the septagon or through other means, such as right now, #moap are talking to KP about the community. Having a select group that does it breeds unnecessary elitism. Keeping it inside a group that the vast, vast majority of people have no clue about makes it even worse. Keep it public; keep it free, that's what forums are about.

  • 07.30.2006 8:49 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Ok. Show me the past eight chapter spotlights. I want to see some spotlights formt he past eight weeks. Or show me some Bungie-sponsored contest started within the community recently. Show me anything. I want to see this. I don't see it, so I'm trying to get it so that I can. Apparently others have the same idea.

  • 07.30.2006 8:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: Pink Menace
Ok. Show me the past eight chapter spotlights. I want to see some spotlights formt he past eight weeks. Or show me some Bungie-sponsored contest started within the community recently. Show me anything. I want to see this. I don't see it, so I'm trying to get it so that I can. Apparently others have the same idea.


By all means, chapter spotlight away, but again, it's a select group, selected by the select group, that's called inbreeding.

And there's always the friendly (and mostly public) Seventh column contests for contests, but that's unnofficial, but i thought you were meant to be a non-bungie group anyway? Or are you seeking the official recognition you deny?

  • 07.30.2006 8:59 PM PDT
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Only the paranoid will survive!

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Pink Menace
Ok. Show me the past eight chapter spotlights. I want to see some spotlights formt he past eight weeks. Or show me some Bungie-sponsored contest started within the community recently. Show me anything. I want to see this. I don't see it, so I'm trying to get it so that I can. Apparently others have the same idea.


By all means, chapter spotlight away, but again, it's a select group, selected by the select group, that's called inbreeding.

And there's always the friendly (and mostly public) Se venth column contests for contests, but that's unnofficial, but i thought you were meant to be a non-bungie group anyway? Or are you seeking the official recognition you deny?


Note that I am Pink Menace. Long story as to why I have two names.

I am in that group. Butane asked us about the idea, and we volunteered to help him out if he needed it.

[Edited on 7/30/2006]

  • 07.30.2006 9:03 PM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

It's a decent concept, but I can almost guarantee it'll never get off the ground. Just look at the slow painful death the last version of the Council had.

  • 07.30.2006 9:04 PM PDT

I'm not that active, but never dead.

The main thing holding The Council Chambers back is the fact that there are too few members and that it takes a lot of time and effort to write Quality Chapter Spotlights and most of the members of the The Council Chambers have just been far to busy. Now that JAF is a mod there is even less people to work on it.

-MAZ

[Edited on 7/30/2006]

  • 07.30.2006 10:18 PM PDT
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A little misunderstanding there ;)

I took that a bit too far earlier, consider this an open apology to anyone who may have been offended; that was not my intention.

  • 07.30.2006 10:22 PM PDT

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