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Subject: The Return of the Council!

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Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: spartakus14
I have a question about the council.

Would it be open to anyone or would the people be chosen?

I think it should be open to anyone if the 7th column is supposed to be community controlled. if it was closed to everone except a select few it would be Community controlled it would be more of a select individuals doing stuff for the better of everyone which would mean everyone would have to get an equal amount of whatever came out. The Seven7h lead by a small vanguard of people. Lenin had the same idea about Russia. Didn't work.

The Council is supposed to be a small group of people that simply help out with the organization of the 7th Column. The councilors are sort of like the volunteers at some event.
Although the 7th Column should always be open to everyone, the Councilors have to make sure things are updated.

Sure the 7th column is open to everyone. But if the council group was only a small group of people what would happen to those people who have great ideas and can't get in? sure they could send it to one of the councilors but there might be a misunderstanding in the PM or the councillor takes all the credit for the Idea and leaves the original person out of his/her post in the group.

It would only make sense to make it open to the entire column.

  • 07.31.2006 12:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartakus14
Sure the 7th column is open to everyone. But if the council group was only a small group of people what would happen to those people who have great ideas and can't get in? sure they could send it to one of the councilors but there might be a misunderstanding in the PM or the councillor takes all the credit for the Idea and leaves the original person out of his/her post in the group.

It would only make sense to make it open to the entire column.

Oh ok, now I see what you mean. No, I think it should be an open group. One where people can post their ideas and such. The actual council should be the one to make sure those idea's become a reality.

  • 07.31.2006 12:12 PM PDT

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Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: spartakus14
Sure the 7th column is open to everyone. But if the council group was only a small group of people what would happen to those people who have great ideas and can't get in? sure they could send it to one of the councilors but there might be a misunderstanding in the PM or the councillor takes all the credit for the Idea and leaves the original person out of his/her post in the group.

It would only make sense to make it open to the entire column.

Oh ok, now I see what you mean. No, I think it should be an open group. One where people can post their ideas and such. The actual council should be the one to make sure those idea's become a reality.


The "actual" council should be anyone who wants to help the 7th column out.

  • 07.31.2006 12:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: SgtSTFU
Posted by: Gnome
I agree with that, TCC's member count says 92 (Last time I checked) but in reality there are only a solid 15 or 20 members who contribute. From what I've seen though when a good idea gets brought up those 20 members can get it done. The real problem I think is that the TCC (and the Council idea) has slipped out of the Communities sight. More people know about TCC, more ideas arise, more that can get done to help.

Right now the majority of inactive members in the TCC had joined because of that feeling of elitism or in an attempt to grab some power. I think that's sad.


I don't know if you are in TCC or not, but there are a few good ideas/projects floating around. One thing that was just started the other day (JAF mainly did it..) was a 7th column art group. We have community inspired Bungie/Halo/etc. art that has been done (in different types of art) or will be done. We are trying to get some more "artists" in the group.

Exactly, A good idea popped up in the group and the active members really got it smoothed out, and ready for the public post. What I was saying is that the group needs more public interaction, so there would be more of those great ideas. There are eleven threads that are still "active", not counting stickys, of those eleven there are maybe four of five threads that contain new ideas for the community.

  • 07.31.2006 12:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Pink Menace
Ok. Show me the past eight chapter spotlights. I want to see some spotlights formt he past eight weeks. Or show me some Bungie-sponsored contest started within the community recently. Show me anything. I want to see this. I don't see it, so I'm trying to get it so that I can. Apparently others have the same idea.


By all means, chapter spotlight away, but again, it's a select group, selected by the select group, that's called inbreeding.

And there's always the friendly (and mostly public) Se venth column contests for contests, but that's unnofficial, but i thought you were meant to be a non-bungie group anyway? Or are you seeking the official recognition you deny?



"By all means, chapter spotlight away, but again, it's a select group, selected by the select group, that's called inbreeding. "?

One of the main discussions in the Chambers at the moment is how best to select the Councilers. We are all agreed that we do not want to have bias choices, and we are coming up with ways to make sure that everybody can have input so we can make things as fair as possible.

  • 07.31.2006 1:54 PM PDT

I've seeing a lot of jargon going on over the years when it comes to matters such as these. A lot of these "patriotic" terms get thrown around like confetti at a new years eve party; when their definitions are nebulous and without meaning. We talk about this damn "Council" all of the time like we expect everyone to know how it's supposed to work; when no one really does. The emperer does't have any clothes. And no one wants to be the guy who says, "Hey, wait a second, that guy's naked!" and speared for not being "patriotic" or "in the know".

So, the idea is to have 12ish people going about and being councilors. Wow that's great. What the hell do they do? I'll point out some possibilities: writing news stories about The 7th Column. Ah, another ambigous idea. It again sound great but let's actually examine it. Here's Bungie's definition of the 7th Column, first of all.

As Bungie's official fanclub and Underground Army, the 7th Column is at the heart of the Bungie fan community. With thousands and thousands of members across the world, the Column provides a central meeting place for Bungie fans of all ages.

When Bungie.net re-launched in November of 2001, the Column was born as a place for Bungie fans to carve their own personal niche into our rapidly growing Community. Anyone could create their own "club" complete with a private forum, a news system, custom databases and an events calendar. The Column gave our fans a home of their own and would become a great meeting point for players interested in forming clans, finding LAN parties and talking shop about Halo and beyond. The online features of the Column itself were created as a gift for our fans, "to thank them for being so loyal", says Max Hoberman, former Bungie Community Lead (and current Halo 2 Multiplayer Lead). While membership in the Column is free and open to everyone, there is one catch: "We want our 7th Column members to help us take over the world."

Fast forward to today and the Column is a different beast than it originally was. Coming off the huge success of Halo and nearing the release of Halo 2, the Bungie Community is bigger and stronger than ever and as a result, the old Bungie.net website had to be retired to make way for something more powerful. In April of 2004, the "new hotness" was launched, bringing Bungie.net back to the cutting edge and providing a base from which we could grow and keep up with the flood of traffic. Now the 7th Column is finally ready to make a grand return and take advantage of the new technologies so once again our fans have a place to call their own. While the look has changed and a few of the features have been modified, the heart and soul of the Column lives on, stronger than ever.


They'd be writing about The Chapters; which is all the 7th Column really is. Yeah, I know they are an underground army, and want to take over the world, yada yada, insert arbitrary jargon here than no one thinks about. It's just the chapters. Let's be realists here. Now, think about what they'd be writing about chapterwise, eh?

...

Yeah, I can't think of anything either. We could do a chapter of the week, but that doesn't have enough substance to do, say, a two page weekly report on the status of 7th Column. Even then, there isn't a lot of extermely pressing and interesting events in people's respective chapters. I'm sorry, there's just not. We'd end up with things such as "well, thursday Johnny and Billy got into a flame war and Billy used his cunning to win." Who cares? And then, even if Bungie even did decide to do something of this nature; it would only take ONE person to write these reports. That's it. Not 12, not 14, not 17. One person.

Another idea that I've seen thrown around is that The Council would vote to make 7th Column Decisions. This idea flew right under people's logic radar like a B-2 stealth bomber. What decisions? Achronos runs the site, and has professionals working under him who already make these decisons. Again, it sounds good to say, but has no substance, just like the other possible Council idea.

Ah, then there's the one where the council would set up 7th Column contests to promote activity. Again, one person could do this, we don't need a dozen or more.

The Emperor has no clothes.

There's no substance. The idea of a 7th Column Council is a shell with no core. What began as a kindhearted idea has evolved into a heaping helping of nothing. The 7th Column Council idea serves no practical purpose other than being a conduit for peoples' deep seated need to feel like they are worth something more than they really are. Even when seen in the grand scale of eternity they know they aren't worth much more than dust in the wind: there's always that hope that, maybe, just maybe, they'll make a difference. When, in reality, they're just making themselves feel that they are needed.

I've always held to the simple truth that lies that we tell others aren't the destructive ones. It's the lies that we tell ourselves that really take a toll.

[/rant]

I see no pressing need for a 7th Column Council.

  • 07.31.2006 4:43 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Posted by: Banshee Barron
I've seeing a lot of jargon going on over the years when it comes to matters such as these. A lot of these "patriotic" terms get thrown around like confetti at a new years eve party; when their definitions are nebulous and without meaning. We talk about this damn "Council" all of the time like we expect everyone to know how it's supposed to work; when no one really does. The emperer does't have any clothes. And no one wants to be the guy who says, "Hey, wait a second, that guy's naked!" and speared for not being "patriotic" or "in the know".

So, the idea is to have 12ish people going about and being councilors. Wow that's great. What the hell do they do? I'll point out some possibilities: writing news stories about The 7th Column. Ah, another ambigous idea. It again sound great but let's actually examine it. Here's Bungie's definition of the 7th Column, first of all.

As Bungie's official fanclub and Underground Army, the 7th Column is at the heart of the Bungie fan community. With thousands and thousands of members across the world, the Column provides a central meeting place for Bungie fans of all ages.

When Bungie.net re-launched in November of 2001, the Column was born as a place for Bungie fans to carve their own personal niche into our rapidly growing Community. Anyone could create their own "club" complete with a private forum, a news system, custom databases and an events calendar. The Column gave our fans a home of their own and would become a great meeting point for players interested in forming clans, finding LAN parties and talking shop about Halo and beyond. The online features of the Column itself were created as a gift for our fans, "to thank them for being so loyal", says Max Hoberman, former Bungie Community Lead (and current Halo 2 Multiplayer Lead). While membership in the Column is free and open to everyone, there is one catch: "We want our 7th Column members to help us take over the world."

Fast forward to today and the Column is a different beast than it originally was. Coming off the huge success of Halo and nearing the release of Halo 2, the Bungie Community is bigger and stronger than ever and as a result, the old Bungie.net website had to be retired to make way for something more powerful. In April of 2004, the "new hotness" was launched, bringing Bungie.net back to the cutting edge and providing a base from which we could grow and keep up with the flood of traffic. Now the 7th Column is finally ready to make a grand return and take advantage of the new technologies so once again our fans have a place to call their own. While the look has changed and a few of the features have been modified, the heart and soul of the Column lives on, stronger than ever.


They'd be writing about The Chapters; which is all the 7th Column really is. Yeah, I know they are an underground army, and want to take over the world, yada yada, insert arbitrary jargon here than no one thinks about. It's just the chapters. Let's be realists here. Now, think about what they'd be writing about chapterwise, eh?

...

Yeah, I can't think of anything either. We could do a chapter of the week, but that doesn't have enough substance to do, say, a two page weekly report on the status of 7th Column. Even then, there isn't a lot of extermely pressing and interesting events in people's respective chapters. I'm sorry, there's just not. We'd end up with things such as "well, thursday Johnny and Billy got into a flame war and Billy used his cunning to win." Who cares? And then, even if Bungie even did decide to do something of this nature; it would only take ONE person to write these reports. That's it. Not 12, not 14, not 17. One person.

Another idea that I've seen thrown around is that The Council would vote to make 7th Column Decisions. This idea flew right under people's logic radar like a B-2 stealth bomber. What decisions? Achronos runs the site, and has professionals working under him who already make these decisons. Again, it sounds good to say, but has no substance, just like the other possible Council idea.

Ah, then there's the one where the council would set up 7th Column contests to promote activity. Again, one person could do this, we don't need a dozen or more.

The Emperor has no clothes.

There's no substance. The idea of a 7th Column Council is a shell with no core. What began as a kindhearted idea has evolved into a heaping helping of nothing. The 7th Column Council idea serves no practical purpose other than being a conduit for peoples' deep seated need to feel like they are worth something more than they really are. Even when seen in the grand scale of eternity they know they aren't worth much more than dust in the wind: there's always that hope that, maybe, just maybe, they'll make a difference. When, in reality, they're just making themselves feel that they are needed.

I've always held to the simple truth that lies that we tell others aren't the destructive ones. It's the lies that we tell ourselves that really take a toll.

[/rant]

I see no pressing need for a 7th Column Council.



Well, those are the words regarding this issue that I've been looking for over the past 2 years.

I would honestly love to be able to say that a 7th Column Council would have a point. That I'd like to be a part of it... I just can't.

I've been here for years. I've seen what I like to call the slow decline of actual personality on the forums. And with this decline, it seeps into the private chapters, no matter how hard one tries to prevent it. Chapters that were made to simulate the experience of the very old Undergrounds and Septagons have fallen into stagnation, or changed completely with an influx of new members. Because of this, no one really knows each other that well anymore, and what seems like a good idea is only half-listened to. The heart and soul of the Column died with the birth of Halo 2. It's not something I like to say, but it's what I feel, and is why my presence on these forums has been quite lacking of late.

I'm not saying the idea of a 7th Column Council is a bad one. I just think it'll be pointless. Ideas will come out of it, yes... but will they really come to fruition? I doubt it. If a 7th Column Council is made, it'll just be a smaller Septagon, and with that, it'll have even less of an impact.

I don't think the 7th Column will ever return. It's not some phoenix that will rise from its own ashes.

My advice is to try something new. Something fresh that no one has seen. Let the dead stay dead. It died because it simply couldn't serve it's purpose anymore.

[Edited on 7/31/2006]

  • 07.31.2006 5:01 PM PDT
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This is off topic, but the results are currently this:

41%
31%
7%
3%
17%

Doesn't that equal 99 percent?

[Edited on 7/31/2006]

  • 07.31.2006 6:23 PM PDT

I'm not that active, but never dead.

Posted by: spartakus14
Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: spartakus14
Sure the 7th column is open to everyone. But if the council group was only a small group of people what would happen to those people who have great ideas and can't get in? sure they could send it to one of the councilors but there might be a misunderstanding in the PM or the councillor takes all the credit for the Idea and leaves the original person out of his/her post in the group.

It would only make sense to make it open to the entire column.

Oh ok, now I see what you mean. No, I think it should be an open group. One where people can post their ideas and such. The actual council should be the one to make sure those idea's become a reality.


The "actual" council should be anyone who wants to help the 7th column out.


The problem with letting just anyone do anything is that it can greatly lower the level of quality of whatever is being done. Unless any articles or spotlights that are done have a set level of quality, crap is going to spill through and the whole experience will suck.

Yes, everyone should be able to contribute. But there must be Guidelines to make sure that contributions are up to standard. The Councillors would set these Guidelines.

-MAZ

  • 07.31.2006 8:11 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

I'm inclined to agree with Shai here. There's been a "decline of personality", as he states that's been around since the announcement of Halo 2. When I joined, it wasn't like that. I wasn't active in any chapters, but ever since the Halo 2 announcement brought a flood of idiots to the site, places like the Septagon have just died. I'm not so sure what a council would do to reverse this, or if it would serve any purpose at all, before and after the start of this decline.

[Edited on 7/31/2006]

  • 07.31.2006 10:31 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: Nedus
I'm inclined to agree with Shai here. There's been a "decline of personality", as he states that's been around since the announcement of Halo 2.


I'm not exactly sure what that is supposed to mean. That the majority of members don't partake in certain discussions? I'm lost...

  • 08.01.2006 5:12 AM PDT
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Only the paranoid will survive!

I know what he means, but I'm having difficulty putting it into words. But I agree with Shai as well.

  • 08.01.2006 8:00 AM PDT

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