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This topic has moved here: Subject: The State of Bungie.net
  • Subject: The State of Bungie.net
Subject: The State of Bungie.net
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Well if GameJunkyJim is the only one on our side, as far as moderator, he will have to start seriously working on the forums with us to make them better. Blacklist all of the whiners and complainers, and then hide join dates, all problems solved. Not exatly, but I mean it is a start

  • 08.01.2006 9:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: Search Engine
Well if GameJunkyJim is the only one on our side, as far as moderator, he will have to start seriously working on the forums with us to make them better. Blacklist all of the whiners and complainers, and then hide join dates, all problems solved. Not exatly, but I mean it is a start


No offense to GJJ but he is just a moderator... not Achronos... He can't do much about the join dates... But look at the Halo 3 forum; he has the locking and blacklisting thing down...

[Edited on 8/1/2006]

  • 08.01.2006 9:29 AM PDT

*Sgt

I agree completely with gjj's first post. I came here a few months before Halo 2 came out (I came looking for Halo 2 info) and I enjoyed the parts that I remember. The Flood was new, and there were crazy, useful, and interactive things going on all the time that everybody could participate in. New Mombassa was alive with thoughtful ideas and people that wouldn't threaten to kill you because your theory was "bull-blam!-." I never really payed attention to the column or any other community aspect until after Halo 2 came out. With the mass influx of new members around Christmastime 2004 and after that, its been hard to find the same pre-Halo2 experience, and the column and certain groups are about as close as it will ever be now.

  • 08.01.2006 9:29 AM PDT

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This isn't about join dates, this is about interaction, I could give a crap less about someone's join date, and would love for them to be gone.

  • 08.01.2006 9:30 AM PDT
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Posted by: Icabacon
Posted by: Search Engine
Well if GameJunkyJim is the only one on our side, as far as moderator, he will have to start seriously working on the forums with us to make them better. Blacklist all of the whiners and complainers, and then hide join dates, all problems solved. Not exatly, but I mean it is a start


No offense to GJJ but he is just a moderator... not Achronos... He can't do much about the join dates... But look at the Halo 3 forum; he has the locking and blacklisting thing down...


He can still blacklist though. I say we start a group and hold discussions inside the group about what we can do, and if nothing else make that our own community and only let people dedicated to making bungie better in, who is with me?

  • 08.01.2006 9:31 AM PDT
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Like SgtStfu said, the closest thing you'll be able to get to the Golden Days is some of the more active, cooler groups...

  • 08.01.2006 9:31 AM PDT
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Posted by: Achilles1108
I haven't been here as long as you or some of the other members and I already have started to lose interest in the site. The main thing I come in here for anymore is to see whats going on and to touch base with the friends I have made here. The sad thing is that all but one person on my friends list was made on this site. I still regularly get together with most of them. Some being on the other side of the pond or the world it makes it a bit difficult but I still enjoy their company on here.

I hope that after the passing of Halo3 and the Halo franchise in general Bungie could go back to the way you and others talk about how it was. To me it sounds like I missed out on some of the best times this site had to offer. I would like to be in a community the way you described how this one used to be.

I agree with both of you, Achilles1108 and GameJunkieJim, I too use to be a flamer. But after time, I have learned that it is not only disrespectful, but pointless at best. I believe, and some other members do aswell, that the blame of this is on older members setting an example for people that just joined. They see flaming and spamming so they believe it is okay. Therefore it is one giant cycle, older members flame and spam then get on with their lives, then the newer members believe it is okay since the older member has been doing this. I think that one solution would be to stop giving warnings. Sure many people will send you hate mail, but you will get much more "thank you very much" messages. And people will start realizing that they should read the CoC and the ToU. Also, many members will help out like myself, Hobo GRrunt, and Zee JollyRoger. More members should help the moderators instead of making it hard for them. This is one of few ways that we could get this site to normal.

I don't think that changing the layout would change the attitude of people. But make it clear, that group "spam" messages are not okay. Make it a point that if your group is enjoyable people will come to you instead of you making people hate you to even think about joining your group. I have many people on my ignore list from many large groups that keep trying to recruite me. The groups are becoming the "post indicator" we had a few years back. The larger the groups you are in the "cooler" you are.

  • 08.01.2006 9:32 AM PDT

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No. No groups. This isn't how this starts. People will just think they're better than others because they're in a group, and nobody, is better than anyone else here.

I'm just a regular person, and I'm concerned.



  • 08.01.2006 9:34 AM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

Posted by: Search Engine
Posted by: Icabacon
Posted by: Search Engine
Well if GameJunkyJim is the only one on our side, as far as moderator, he will have to start seriously working on the forums with us to make them better. Blacklist all of the whiners and complainers, and then hide join dates, all problems solved. Not exatly, but I mean it is a start


No offense to GJJ but he is just a moderator... not Achronos... He can't do much about the join dates... But look at the Halo 3 forum; he has the locking and blacklisting thing down...


He can still blacklist though. I say we start a group and hold discussions inside the group about what we can do, and if nothing else make that our own community and only let people dedicated to making bungie better in, who is with me?

That isn't going to solve anything.

  • 08.01.2006 9:35 AM PDT

Posted by: Search Engine
Posted by: Icabacon
Posted by: Search Engine
Well if GameJunkyJim is the only one on our side, as far as moderator, he will have to start seriously working on the forums with us to make them better. Blacklist all of the whiners and complainers, and then hide join dates, all problems solved. Not exatly, but I mean it is a start


No offense to GJJ but he is just a moderator... not Achronos... He can't do much about the join dates... But look at the Halo 3 forum; he has the locking and blacklisting thing down...


He can still blacklist though.
I think you are completely missing the point of the thread. Blacklisting is not the solution, so give it up.

  • 08.01.2006 9:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: M3 Roki7
Posted by: Achilles1108
(what he said)



(trying to avoid a pyramaid)


Maybe put it in the rules that you can't spam threads with group invites? I don't know how that would be enforced... But I too am sick of getting obviously pasted invites of people just trying to get their numbers up...

  • 08.01.2006 9:35 AM PDT
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Well, sorry that my suggestions suck I am just trying to help, but I mean I don't know what to say it isn't like: WALLAH everyone is better and the forums are better, there needs to be people that care, and we can't just make people care, we have to get them out.....

  • 08.01.2006 9:37 AM PDT

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Care is infectious. You make a few people care, and it spreads.

Care is what we need here.

  • 08.01.2006 9:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
This isn't about join dates, this is about interaction, I could give a crap less about someone's join date, and would love for them to be gone.

You are forgetting that newer members always look at join date. I remember when I was new, that was all I payed attention to, the join date. I didn't care what they had in the body of the thread. But if their join date was a ways back farther than mine, I respected them. But thankfully, I have realized that my first few months have been a lie. To be quite honest.

  • 08.01.2006 9:44 AM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

Posted by: Search Engine
Well, sorry that my suggestions suck I am just trying to help, but I mean I don't know what to say it isn't like: WALLAH everyone is better and the forums are better, there needs to be people that care, and we can't just make people care, we have to get them out.....


There will always be people who don't care. The real thing Jim is trying to get at is that people will start to care if the members and Bungie work together to make the site what it once was. There has to be help on both ends. Banning the other members because they don't care won't really solve anything. They will just make another account and continue to not care. Unfortunately I am not sure how to go about doing this seeing how I wasn't around in the "heyday" of B.net. If there is anything that newer guys like us can do I am open to helping out.

  • 08.01.2006 9:44 AM PDT
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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Care is infectious. You make a few people care, and it spreads.

Care is what we need here.


Yeah, but we have a lot of people to give the disease to, don't you agree? I wish that everyone that was coming here and making flameworthy and spammed topics about cheaters would stop, but we kind of have to throw out the fact that enough is enough to everyone, and make it stop. It is something the community needs, and I nkow that it isn't just about the complaints of cheating, it is everytghing. There is so much spam that it feels like it is a war, not a community of great people

  • 08.01.2006 9:44 AM PDT
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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Care is infectious. You make a few people care, and it spreads.

Care is what we need here.

True, but it is a battle between most. Like the groups. Some give into the caring, and others wish to forget, and keep with their old ways of flaming.

  • 08.01.2006 9:46 AM PDT
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If everyone believes in new features, and everyone agrees with each other in this thread, we can pull together strong enough to make people listen to us, and then it will spread like a disease, like Jim mentioned.

  • 08.01.2006 9:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: VII Toast
Ha. What an interesting name. Search Engine. It reminds me of something.. long ago..

While I'm the subject, the community aspect is not only dying the way Jim-Jim exclaimed, but I also feel that actual improvements to the site and new features will always spring more life. As in, well, the mystical Search engine!

Honestly, I can understand that any feature would be hard to implement due to the large member-base and traffic Bungie.net pulls, but it doesn't take this long. I could be horribly wrong in saying this because I don't know the actual statics, but plenty of large websites can create new features for it's users in a matter of months and without the website team, company (Microsoft) and the paychecks behind it.

The Kuniklo Project. The community roared with anticipation when the group was created, because new community team members are so rare.

But now, of course, 8 months later we are still wondering and waiting as we have been for 2 years. No new info. Nothing.


I understand that the folks at bungie headquarters are always busy, but I agree with you. New content would definitly breath more life into the site. If we could maybe get a new Forum and delete the less used ones, and maybe add more stuff that gets the common user invovled, I'm sure we can see more of what made Bungie.net the great site I've heard about from the older guys.

The problem is man power. But I'm sure Bungie could hire a few guys to help lighten the load and provide more content.

  • 08.01.2006 9:52 AM PDT

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When I joined bungie.net it was to make a chapter for a clan of mine and to read up on the latest Halo 2 news. But once I got here I found myself immersed in the whole site. Reading through the forums was something I greatly enjoyed, especially reading all the theories people had. After a while I started to hear about bungie's older games. People on here told me how good they were etc: and I played Marathon. I really enjoyed it. The people in the forums were very firiendly and helpful.

Granted now I don't post much at all, though when I first joined I posted alot everyday. Slowly over time though the members seemed to become less friendly and helpful. I'm not sure what caused this. I haven't been here as long as alot of members, so it may even be worse for them. But I know there has been a definate change, and from my point of view for the worse.

If I can help I will, but right now it seems that not many people want to help make the Collumn a better place. Like you said GJJ, we need some of the Bungie employees to interact with us more. Update the Collumn and help make it a better place for all.

  • 08.01.2006 9:52 AM PDT
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There has been a decline in personality with the increase of members. You simply can't have 1.92 million members -and- a close-knit community.

Those members may still be here, there are enough that still enjoy the community as it used to be. Used to be. Oldschool games, little groups, helpful members... They are all still here, but the focus of Bungie right now is on the Halo series. That's all there is to it.

The games that made Bungie great in our eyes as a small(er) developer are not the games that are at the centre of attention right now. The popularity of the Halo series has brought a massive influx of people to this site and, frankly, most of them probably only came here to view their stats. Many of them are young, many of them are immature. The two words are by no means synonymous, but unfortunately idiots post junk more than mature members post interesting topics. That's just the way it is.

To have such a vast community and also keep things the way they were, to cling to the good old values, is far too ambitious. I too miss the input from Bungie staff, as equals, for fun, the updates to the community and everything else that went with a casual , talented and community-based developer as Bungie was in the "old days".

It is my opinion that of course, Bungie employees haven't changed all that much... I'm sure they enjoyed the community just as much as we did. However, they aren't working on small games anymore... they are working on the best-selling series of console games of all time, for a cash-hungry, secretive and aggressive company. There can't be the same community interacton as there used to be...

Again in my opinion, it is the refusal to realise that things have changed that is holding B.net back: It is not appropriate to have 15 moderators for 1.92 million members, no matter how much we wish it was. In addition, the fact that most (if not all) moderators don't play the games that are -now- central to Bungie very extensively means that they can't handle the arguments of the (now majority of) members that do.

15 close-knit moderators, in HFCS, recruiting other moderators on community interaction seems like a good idea. However, it has to be said that this is simply not an adequate system for such a large playerbase. More moderators, that play the games that the people on the forums do, that can interact in Halo discussions. Not enough interaction in topics? When was the last time a moderator posted in New Mombasa, or the old Zanzibar, other than to warn, lock or ban someone?

A few isolated examples spring to mind... I remember GJJ playing Devil's Advocate in an SMG/BR discussion, with a degree of success: He knew what people meant in that thread, he held his own in a difficult position, and a good debate followed. I enjoyed that thread. The mere presence of a moderator in that thread made a flame-fest waiting to happen into an intelligent discussion.

A larger number of moderators that play Halo, don't need to have extensive knowledge of Myth and Marathon and so can interact, really interact in the more unruly forums would calm those hotbeds of argument down into mere... warmbeds of discussion. More idiots would be kept out of The Septagon etc., the other moderators wouldn't be totally demoralised, disillusioned and disheartened, and maybe smaller groups would appear that didn't surge for members but fillled an active and useful role -Halo- community.

Group powers for moderators and methods of punishing groups would be more extreme but could become neccessary...

After all this rambling, it seems I don't really know where I'm going. However, a summary of the major point I feel strongly about:

The communtiy is changing. For better or worse, in the long run this hassle may result in an improvement... This is a stage of transition for Bungie, and the community has to move with it. I wouldn't want to see the Oldschoolers left behind, they don't deserve it.
The system of moderation on this site is no longer appropriate. The whole secrecy, don't ever ask to be a mod, spend all your time in groups about Marathon etc. simply won't sustain the huge number of people here! You know what? I'd make a good moderator, and I'd love to be one. I'm not a Myth connoisseur, but I have an extensive knowledge of the Halo series and I play online and interact in the community here a substantial amount. I'm always helpful and respectful on the forums, I don't lose my cool, I spell correctly and have passable grammar... All this is insubstantial though, as the system as is means that because I wouldn't have been a good moderator in the Bungie Mac era, I won't become one now. "Never ask to be a mod" is all well and good, but the system is breaking down. More Halo-savvy moderators means more control and interaction in the Halo parts of the site, and that means a better community.
The hiring of KPaul was an excellent idea, but this site does need some attention in the community areas. The moderators etc. don't really have time for this, as they are busy getting flamed in MLG discussions.
My 2¢, take it or leave it. =)

  • 08.01.2006 9:54 AM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Many of you seem to be missing the point. Did some of you just skim GameJunkieJim's article? Some of you seem to just be blindly agreeing with him, and not seeing the deeper meanings of his post.

The problem isn't just the community, it's how the site is set up. The site itself has caused characteristics like elitism, enourmous amounds of spam, and outright redundancy. No wonder we were laughed by people at the Penny Arcade forum a few years ago.. Chapters, the old Clans, now-pointless forums... they all do this.

Look at the Flood: An off-topic forum... a conceptually good thing to have, but what is it, actually? A giant popularity contest. I defy any of you to prove that it isn't. Hell, it's basically it's own chapter, and many of them are elitists in a sense. They might as well create a "We The Flood" thread and declare themselves separate from the rest of the entire site. It might even do the site a favor.

Underground: What a lovely place it used to be... I made myself a saying for a "farewell" to people that were as frequent there as I was years ago: "See ya 'round in the underground." Sure, it's not much, and it's a bit cheesy, but that place was like an electronic home. Now it's just overrun with repeating topics... spam, wrongly-placed posts, and thread after thread about the Halo Movie.

The Library: After Halo 2... there hasn't been a great amount of activity.

Halo 3 Forum: Some posts have good merrit, but it's incredibly redundant, and also has a lot of flamming to boot.

New Mombassa: See Halo 3 Forum.

SIDE NOTE: Mombasa vs. Flood attitudes are another problem. Yes, they've lessened a bit lately, but I still see some of the elitism that resulted. What the -blam!-? Really? It's the same goddamned site! "This forum is better than this forum" is the dumbest thing I've ever seen, even dumber than Darkness_1282's rants on how Blizzard is "so much better than Bungie" (something that happened before many of you joined). Anyone who has ever felt such feelings against another forum should feel ashamed. It's ludicrous! It's elitism, and there's no denying it.

I won't comment on Optimatch and The Maw. I don't visit them at all.

The Gallery: The what?

The News: It is what it says... but it's pointless. People discuss it there, yes... but they also make a thousand other posts in the Underground and Halo 3 General.

Voting Booth: Voting what?

The Classifieds is useful for anyone who wants to find a group, thankfully.

The Chapters: I've been a first-hand witness to how these chapters tear good people apart. It's sickening. I'm not going to name names for the sake of security, but it happens, and it happens often. GameJunkieJim knows full well what I refer to.

Clans: Same deal with the chapters. Although I think they have more of a point, I saw the same thing happen. Pointless bickering ensues. The party system in matchmaking also makes clans somewhat unnecessary.

It's not a matter of the community trying to change interaction on the forums and in groups. The community is powerless! It's the site that needs an overhall, or maybe it's Bungie that needs a swift kick in the arse to see that it should do something in order to get back a respectable fanbase. Or maybe the answer to Jim's question is that they actually don't care... and they just want to make their wonderful games.




[Edited on 8/1/2006]

  • 08.01.2006 9:59 AM PDT
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Thanks, Shai. I got the impression that people were, as usual, veering away from the real problem and concentrating on minor and irrelevant details.

  • 08.01.2006 10:02 AM PDT

Posted by: Saint
Again in my opinion, it is the refusal to realise that things have changed that is holding B.net back: It is not appropriate to have 15 moderators for 1.92 million members, no matter how much we wish it was. In addition, the fact that most (if not all) moderators don't play the games that are -now- central to Bungie very extensively means that they can't handle the arguments of the (now majority of) members that do.

15 close-knit moderators, in HFCS, recruiting other moderators on community interaction seems like a good idea. However, it has to be said that this is simply not an adequate system for such a large playerbase. More moderators, that play the games that the people on the forums do, that can interact in Halo discussions. Not enough interaction in topics? When was the last time a moderator posted in New Mombasa, or the old Zanzibar, other than to warn, lock or ban someone?

A few isolated examples spring to mind... I remember GJJ playing Devil's Advocate in an SMG/BR discussion, with a degree of success: He knew what people meant in that thread, he held his own in a difficult position, and a good debate followed. I enjoyed that thread. The mere presence of a moderator in that thread made a flame-fest waiting to happen into an intelligent discussion.

A larger number of moderators that play Halo, don't need to have extensive knowledge of Myth and Marathon and so can interact, really interact in the more unruly forums would calm those hotbeds of argument down into mere... warmbeds of discussion. More idiots would be kept out of The Septagon etc., the other moderators wouldn't be totally demoralised, disillusioned and disheartened, and maybe smaller groups would appear that didn't surge for members but fillled an active and useful role -Halo- community.
I surely hope you are not blaming the moderators for not playing Halo 2, because I did play Halo 2 and loved every second of it. If there is a discussion in New Mombasa that I haven't taken part in 5 times already, I'll take part in it. If it's about Halo 2 online, forget about it; because I don't have XBL. And I know you aren't blaming me for deciding to feed and cloth my son and have a house for my family instead of paying outrageous prices for high-speed internet. I also take part in discussions in the Halo 3 forum if it is something I want to discuss, just like any other member.

[Edited on 8/1/2006]

  • 08.01.2006 10:03 AM PDT