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This topic has moved here: Subject: The State of Bungie.net
  • Subject: The State of Bungie.net
Subject: The State of Bungie.net
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13/02/2005 (I've been on since then.)
Group RPG's!

DO NOT DO IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT NOT DOING IT!

Right as I said, if we want to work and help each other, can we please stop moaning and get started.

  • 08.01.2006 11:56 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

The mythical search engine is coming... sooner than you expect. More I cannot say.

"The Kuniklo Project" as you put it... is related to Halo 3, mostly. As such, it is quiet for now.

Things are actually going to start happening pretty fast and furious over the next couple of months. As a long term example... don't get too attached to the bottom nav bar. And that's all I'll say about that.

Lots of things are going to change to get this place ready for Halo 3. But we'll also likely spread the development love around to not just the Halo 3 related stuff, as well. Don't confuse the lack of information with the lack of change. We'll be moving to a new datacenter within the next week or two, and then shortly after that... well, you'll see.

Posted by: VII Toast
Ha. What an interesting name. Search Engine. It reminds me of something.. long ago..

While I'm the subject, the community aspect is not only dying the way Jim-Jim exclaimed, but I also feel that actual improvements to the site and new features will always spring more life. As in, well, the mystical Search engine!

Honestly, I can understand that any feature would be hard to implement due to the large member-base and traffic Bungie.net pulls, but it doesn't take this long. I could be horribly wrong in saying this because I don't know the actual statics, but plenty of large websites can create new features for it's users in a matter of months and without the website team, company (Microsoft) and the paychecks behind it.

The Kuniklo Project. The community roared with anticipation when the group was created, because new community team members are so rare.

But now, of course, 8 months later we are still wondering and waiting as we have been for 2 years. No new info. Nothing.

  • 08.01.2006 11:56 AM PDT

Look, all that matters is that everyone here is trying to bring the community together. We shouldn't be pointing fingers about who's doing it wrong, because there is no right way to do it. This is a very large community with a variety of tastes, and i for one don't care to hear petty arguments about who you are helping out or bringing together.

This is community. If you are bringing the community together in any way, thats a good thing. The more you bring together, the better. But if you are doing it for selfish reasons, then it will only crumble like every other time it has happened.

  • 08.01.2006 11:57 AM PDT
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Boston Red Sox - World Champs (04'/07')
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Posted by: EL
Every negative aspect that was stated about the community may have some clue as to why the 7th Column and the old community died. And as to why the Bungie employees who visited frequently don't anymore.


interesting point, it holds truth but I am not 100% sure on just the negativity, there were probably more that led to it.

  • 08.01.2006 11:57 AM PDT

[MjolnirTactics][Midsphere]
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* The Halo 3 forum is a un-moderated mess. Want a more detailed description: Even the on-topic posts that don't deserve to be locked are filled with spam that has nothing to do with what the orginal poster said. This is true for at least 1 in every 3 posts. It's moderated, but again we run into the problem of moderator to user ratio, and backlash. I moderated that forum heavily for the first two weeks it was around. The stress caused me to get an ulcer and my gall bladder failed. You think this is an easy job? I tell you truthfully, it is not. Read what I said below. This would not be a problem if you got a regular visitor to that forum to be a moderator instead of just picking "old school" forums moderators that only post in the septagon.

* The solution to the main forum problem is a simple one but one bungie would never be willing to do. Until they select people that are regular flood or Halo 3 forum members to moderate these area's of the site that they regularly visit anyways they are always going to be uncontrolled and spam infested forums. It's not a solution, only a postponement. We are actually in those forums. We are simply not as visible as we try to be. Visiting a forum for 2 second and scanning the front page for spam isn't a active presence. If your not interested in the forum subject they is what your gonna do. If you actaully got a regular forum members that visits that forum regularly and goes through and reads threads and posts replies and interacts in the forum regularly to become a moderator then that forum would be so much clearer and well kept. The Flood for instance has a large regular fan-base I can think of a few people that I might not know well but still would do a excellent job at moderating that forum.

* The solution to the groups problem is equally simple and alot easier to accomplish. Stop criticizing other groups and focus on making your own group the best it can possibly be. This does not been stop all inter-group interaction because that is a integral part of what the 7th Column is, but instead of focusing on a groups negative points why don't you try and find what is good and unique about that group. Unique aspects of the group is essential for a healthy existence. One does not want the interation to stop. I simply want it to be a constructive interaction rather than destructive. As hard as it is to hear it and for me to say it groups, especially large groups have a destructive nature but no neccasarily in the way you are thinking. In making MBT wasn't the first halo 2 strategy group but I put alot into my group and made it the best and along the way other strategy groups suffered from MBT's success. The same applies to Popular Fusion in its fast rise in members. They pretty much destroyed all the smallers halo 3 speculation groups when they became so big. This is again because m00zor put alot of effort into making his group great. And by destroyed I mean in activity because everyone migrated to the larger more active forums. I also don't mean that all group interaction is destructive but this main unavoidable type is.

One last thing, I try my hardest to make MBT the greatest group it could possibly be, I do everything for that group. I create cash prizes, make websites all with my own time and money and I don't like it when people like you come along with there elitist attitudes and put down all my work in one short summary of everything we've done wrong.Hey, I respect that. However, your group is judged on the actions of it's members, not just the founder. Do well to remember that.
You say this but how is it possible for me to control my members outside of my forum? If you can come up with a solution to that I'd be interested in hearing it.

  • 08.01.2006 11:58 AM PDT
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13/02/2005 (I've been on since then.)
Group RPG's!

DO NOT DO IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT NOT DOING IT!

Posted by: Achronos
The mythical search engine is coming... sooner than you expect. More I cannot say.

"The Kuniklo Project" as you put it... is related to Halo 3, mostly. As such, it is quiet for now.

Things are actually going to start happening pretty fast and furious over the next couple of months. As a long term example... don't get too attached to the bottom nav bar. And that's all I'll say about that.

Lots of things are going to change to get this place ready for Halo 3. But we'll also likely spread the development love around to not just the Halo 3 related stuff, as well. Don't confuse the lack of information with the lack of change. We'll be moving to a new datacenter within the next week or two, and then shortly after that... well, you'll see.

Posted by: VII Toast
Ha. What an interesting name. Search Engine. It reminds me of something.. long ago..

While I'm the subject, the community aspect is not only dying the way Jim-Jim exclaimed, but I also feel that actual improvements to the site and new features will always spring more life. As in, well, the mystical Search engine!

Honestly, I can understand that any feature would be hard to implement due to the large member-base and traffic Bungie.net pulls, but it doesn't take this long. I could be horribly wrong in saying this because I don't know the actual statics, but plenty of large websites can create new features for it's users in a matter of months and without the website team, company (Microsoft) and the paychecks behind it.

The Kuniklo Project. The community roared with anticipation when the group was created, because new community team members are so rare.

But now, of course, 8 months later we are still wondering and waiting as we have been for 2 years. No new info. Nothing.


You have done something great, thank you. But what is this search engine?

  • 08.01.2006 11:58 AM PDT
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Achronos i must remind you that the community is also a factor, and what about an update to the 7th column

  • 08.01.2006 11:59 AM PDT
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Only the paranoid will survive!

Posted by: Achronos
The mythical search engine is coming... sooner than you expect. More I cannot say.

"The Kuniklo Project" as you put it... is related to Halo 3, mostly. As such, it is quiet for now.

Things are actually going to start happening pretty fast and furious over the next couple of months. As a long term example... don't get too attached to the bottom nav bar. And that's all I'll say about that.

Lots of things are going to change to get this place ready for Halo 3. But we'll also likely spread the development love around to not just the Halo 3 related stuff, as well. Don't confuse the lack of information with the lack of change. We'll be moving to a new datacenter within the next week or two, and then shortly after that... well, you'll see.


:'(
<3 Nav Bar.

Well I suppose that's all great news. But, for the moment, I guess we'll just have to wait some more. Hope the next few weeks go by fast, and thanks for the info (teaser?).\
EDIT: Woah! The Search Engine is here! Yay!

[Edited on 8/1/2006]

  • 08.01.2006 12:00 PM PDT
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  • Intrepid Mythic Member

For Carnage, Apply Within.

I have returned from the Untamed Lands. MOAP is dead.

You know Achronos, the bottom nav bar could be moved vertically over the blank black space on the right. It's not a bad feature.

  • 08.01.2006 12:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
Good idea. Consider it done.

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
This isn't about join dates, this is about interaction, I could give a crap less about someone's join date, and would love for them to be gone.

Uh oh, dmb isn't going to be happy about this........oh well, I'm glad it will be gone.

  • 08.01.2006 12:03 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Do not confuse not posting with not reading what you say. If we sat in here and posted all the time we'd never get anything done.

Posted by: twinkiemaker
I used a variant of this argument to defend Bungie against the crys of the MLG contingent a while back.

Bungie is big enough now that they don't have to cater to individual groups. They are going to get thier x million units sold regardless.

I was using the argument to quiet a restless "pro-gamer" crowd, but I feel that it might be applicable here. Has Bungie grown so large that they no longer hear thier fans speak? Does its parent company Microsoft allow Bungie to be as community oriented as they once were?

I don't have answers for these questions, just a glimmer of hope that the answers do not confirm what many of us are beginning to suspect.

  • 08.01.2006 12:07 PM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

^ to the post above, well - it would be nice if you guys could take the time and post from time to time, just so fans do know that you'r looking at what were saying.

Posted by: EL
You know Achronos, the bottom nav bar could be moved vertically over the blank black space on the right. It's not a bad feature.


this is a good idea.

[Edited on 8/1/2006]

  • 08.01.2006 12:08 PM PDT
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13/02/2005 (I've been on since then.)
Group RPG's!

DO NOT DO IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT NOT DOING IT!

Posted by: Achronos
Do not confuse not posting with not reading what you say. If we sat in here and posted all the time we'd never get anything done.

Posted by: twinkiemaker
I used a variant of this argument to defend Bungie against the crys of the MLG contingent a while back.

Bungie is big enough now that they don't have to cater to individual groups. They are going to get thier x million units sold regardless.

I was using the argument to quiet a restless "pro-gamer" crowd, but I feel that it might be applicable here. Has Bungie grown so large that they no longer hear thier fans speak? Does its parent company Microsoft allow Bungie to be as community oriented as they once were?

I don't have answers for these questions, just a glimmer of hope that the answers do not confirm what many of us are beginning to suspect.


Lets end talk and get started now. :)

  • 08.01.2006 12:09 PM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: spartakus14
members on the main forum? how is that supposed to be controlled by a group?


If a member of a group acts like an ass in the main forums, and gives the group in his sig a bad reputation, I would remove that member from my group, regardless of how it would affect my group's member count.

and are those member drives on saturdays?

Im talking about the un-ending stream of pm's from members of some of the larger groups. If I had a dollar for each PM I've received asking me to join Prominent Communique, MBT, Popular Fusion, etc, I could buy a 360 many times over.

also, I do believe that this thread is about REPAIRING the 7th colum. not agrueing with each other.

Yes, and had you read the thread, and more importantly, the first post, you would realize the emphasis was placed on the fact that having Bungie.net in its current state, it isn't possible. Meaning elements of Bungie.net that no moderator, member, etc has any power to fix.

Im not attempting to argue with anyone, I was just pointing out to Guardian Hunter, that, despite his best intentions in the creation of that group, a few stupid members (and a few thousand PM's) was all it took to spoil its reputation among the rest of Bungie.net.

I understand how my initial comments could have been misunderstood, but part of 'healing' Bungie.net isn't going to come from choosing the more sinister of two options. If you can interpret a post in multiple ways, try choosing the interpretation that chooses the least amount of conflict. If the person is attacking you, I'm sure he will be quick to address the fact that you misunderstood his post.

  • 08.01.2006 12:10 PM PDT

[MjolnirTactics][Midsphere]
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Posted by: Pimp at Sea
Liez. MBT most certainly does not play a role in all of Bungie. In fact, I could care less about MBT. Not in a mean way, but I just don't find it very appealing. I'm happy that people enjoy it, but it doesn't really do much for me.

Wether you like it or not it does. Just because your not involved with it doesn't mean it doesn't.

Posted by: Guardian Hunter
You say we've missed the point of the 7th Column which as far as I have taken it to be is that its about uniting Halo 2 gamers under a common flag.

Erm, you have missed the point. I don't play Halo 2. You don't want to unite me, as well? I would pick Myth or Marathon over Halo 2 any day of the week. Take out "Halo 2" and you have it right though.
I personally don't play Myth or Marathon and neither does 95% of the people that signed up on this site. They are mainly about Halo 2 because its bungie's biggest most successful game. I said Halo 2 because that's what I'm interested in but I suppose saying bungie would have been better.

Posted by: Guardian Hunter
MBT and PF provide great content and activity to there groups and you call this a annoyance because we aren't one of thoughs exclusive chapters you have where only a few of your buddies can hang out and have one new post a day.

I think you got a bit carried away here. This is more attacking Jim and less rebuking his claims. Why would he be mad at other people's enjoyment? Jim is a grown man. I think it's a bit comical to think he would get upset because there is a large group. Getting upset at the methods they use, however, I can see that.
I'm 21 years old in college. I intend to go to law school afterwards I am a grown man too but I still take offense to this kind of things and in his first paragraph he directly attacked MBT so I replied with his own faults too.

Posted by: Guardian Hunter
If you want to talk about groups being annoying why don't you look at HFCS; more topics have been made about this group in the septagon then any other group. They aren't considered advertisement because nobody can join but they've continued to be posted and not locked because the moderators think its funny.

And whos fault is it that there are so many HFCS topics? Why, the people who support them, of course. Don't post in them and they won't be made. There is obviously and intrest in them though, so people will make them. And why would they lock a topic that's in the right forum (I assume the Septagon is the right forum, of course...)? Because you find it annoying? I find a lot of threads annoying, but I just ignore them.
Your right it is the people's fault who supported them which includes the bungie moderators. They could have locked the topic and ended the spam but they didn't because it was about them.

* We have 15 moderators on 12 forums now but wait...why do we still have a huge off-topic/spam problem...maybe because they only post in the forums they are acustom to like the septagon and the underground. Thoughs forums are so well maintained because there is always at least 2 moderators browsing them. The reason for that is because all the moderators on this site are considered and where choosen because of there "old-school" style.

Moderators are people. They have lives. What your suggesting is that each moderator guards a forum for his entire life. Mabye the other three can give them breaks every once in awhile. It takes time to lock, it takes time to post replies. Mods have to deal with other things too. Replying to PMs, posting in their groups, all that stuff.
Did you even read what I wrote. I said bring on new moderators that are regulars to the forum they are moderating. That way they visit it anyways regularless of moderator powers or not.

Posted by: Guardian Hunter
Of course you woudn't know anything about any of these problems because you and most of the regular septagon people only hang out here and in small exclusive clubs unware of any of these problems besides the large groups that you insult.

No, it's because they hang out in groups that are well managed and don't let spammers join them in the first place.
So how do you tell if someone is a spammer before you let them into your group? You just check there join date right?

  • 08.01.2006 12:10 PM PDT

Add the email above to your MSN to contact me with emergencies on the forum.

FOR CARNAGE, APPLY WITHIN
Marathon, Myth, and MORE (Under construction)

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Thank you for your attention Achronos. I know this is a sensitive subject for many.

And Guardian Hunter, I'm not saying you can control those members, but in a very real sense, those members speak for you. It's the same as if the guy at McDonalds punched someone in the nose, or if the UPS guy tears up my package. Your members are a representation of your group. When they act bad, you look bad.

  • 08.01.2006 12:10 PM PDT
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13/02/2005 (I've been on since then.)
Group RPG's!

DO NOT DO IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT NOT DOING IT!

So guardian, plz may you stop.

  • 08.01.2006 12:11 PM PDT

To Make Posts is Glorious

Some threads will get posts before others and it is the duty of the Leadership to ensure that posts are made that best suit the public welfare.

"heh"

Posted by: Guardian Hunter
Posted by: Pimp at Sea
Liez. MBT most certainly does not play a role in all of Bungie. In fact, I could care less about MBT. Not in a mean way, but I just don't find it very appealing. I'm happy that people enjoy it, but it doesn't really do much for me.

Wether you like it or not it does. Just because your not involved with it doesn't mean it doesn't.


Don't put yourself on a gold pedestal there. Yeah, you have 1500 members, so what? I don't really find the group interesting at all.

  • 08.01.2006 12:12 PM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: Achronos
Do not confuse not posting with not reading what you say. If we sat in here and posted all the time we'd never get anything done.


Thats why I posed them as questions. We all know your watching! pervert

  • 08.01.2006 12:13 PM PDT
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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Guardian Hunter, I'm not saying you can control those members, but in a very real sense, those members speak for you. It's the same as if the guy at McDonalds punched someone in the nose, or if the UPS guy tears up my package. Your members are a representation of your group. When they act bad, you look bad.

  • 08.01.2006 12:14 PM PDT

-Quaere verum.

Got a report? Use the report tool or send a pm.
Chairleg Productions presents: 'Console Wars' and 'Games as Art?' (also on Halo Waypoint).

Posted by: Search Engine
Achronos i must remind you that the community is also a factor, and what about an update to the 7th column


I quote:

Posted By: Achronos
Lots of things are going to change to get this place ready for Halo 3. But we'll also likely spread the development love around to not just the Halo 3 related stuff, as well.


Not that this directly says anything about the Column, but i think for now we should assume something(s) will eventually be changed and improved.

I would like to take this opportunity to say that now Achronos is assuring us things are happening and will be happening very soon, we no longer need be so upset and uptight. However, i would like to thank Jim for saying what really needed to be said. We need to be comforted and to quite a large extent, i feel we have been.

[Edited on 8/1/2006]

  • 08.01.2006 12:14 PM PDT

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Posted by: the squee masta
Posted by: Guardian Hunter
Posted by: Pimp at Sea
Liez. MBT most certainly does not play a role in all of Bungie. In fact, I could care less about MBT. Not in a mean way, but I just don't find it very appealing. I'm happy that people enjoy it, but it doesn't really do much for me.

Wether you like it or not it does. Just because your not involved with it doesn't mean it doesn't.


Don't put yourself on a gold pedestal there. Yeah, you have 1500 members, so what? I don't really find the group interesting at all.


I don't put myself on a gold pedestal. The same applies for the other large groups too they all play a role in bungie wether you like it or not. Popular Fusion, Prominent Communique, ODST Recon, Games in Action all play a role.

  • 08.01.2006 12:14 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

The reason you don't see as much moderation in the Halo 3 forum and New Mombasa is because there are so many more posts. The Underground doesn't get enough posts to push those locked threads off the first page, neither does the Septagon. If you want proof of this, I suggest you actually count the number of posts and the rate of posts. It is fairly obvious.

GH, I don't have problems with people pointing out faults, but at least acknowledge your own. On at least three seperate occassions, your group has been involved in something that required my attention. In terms of "missing the point" - your group and PF's group seem to be right up there, seeing how both of these groups have as one of their primary goals to break member milestones. You should be able to stand on your own merits without basing your entire existence on having the most members.

Posted by: Guardian Hunter
Wow you can say I'm wrong...back it up with some proof. I have look at these forums for along time and I've noticed the trend. Its pretty apparently and easy to see. Some forums like the The Gallery dont' need moderatoring because they're dead but some forums like H3 forum, classifieds, New Mombassa are in desperate need of it and its not being given.

  • 08.01.2006 12:15 PM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Posted by: Achronos
Good idea. Consider it done.

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
This isn't about join dates, this is about interaction, I could give a crap less about someone's join date, and would love for them to be gone.


Whoa Achronos, hold on. Sure, I recieve a Lot of beef sometimes for my join date, but sometimes it's an integral part of the system. Unless you have a way to keep track of the dates, so as to not be quick to judge new people who come to the site?

Here's my $0.2: Keep the join dates hidden to the members, but visible to the moderators. That way, when an off topic thread comes up, the mods can say "Oh, he's new. I'll just clue him in on the rules and advise him to look at them."

I know join dates cause a lot "segregation" sometimes, and a lot of supposed "elitism." I guess what I'm saying is: Make sure someone who's a higher-up can see it; if the members can't.

  • 08.01.2006 12:16 PM PDT

Twitter | Nothing

Thanks to our Overlord for taking time to read this thread and deal with some of the issues. I look forward to seeing some new stuff on bungie.net soon.

And Guardian Hunter. No one attacked MBT, he was merely using it as an example rather than an attack. I suggest that you stop your argument.

  • 08.01.2006 12:16 PM PDT