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This topic has moved here: Subject: Groups ~ Their role in B.net
  • Subject: Groups ~ Their role in B.net
Subject: Groups ~ Their role in B.net
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The functionality and implementation of Groups on Bungie.net are in my opinion seriously flawed. I'm writing this in order to hopefully spotlight some of these problems, and create some discussion about the way in which Groups work and how they can be improved upon [whether by community involvement or actually changing the website].

First of all, please do not advertise or attack any specific groups in this thread. I would like to keep the topic on the Group system as a whole.

A large problem which seems to plague B.net is with improving community involvement and activity with Groups. I don't think that this problem is caused by a lack of willingness on the part of the community. The sheer volume and quality of posts in response to GameJunkieJim's thread yesterday are evidence that there is still an active and intelligent community out there. Instead, I believe that this problem is being caused by how Groups are presented on Bungie.net.

Organized as it is now, finding an active group which caters to a persons specific interests is nearly impossible. Users have only a few options for actively seeking out a group to participate in. One can:
* Search for groups using the Find Group page
* Search through signatures on forum posts
* Use The Classifieds
The problems with each of these methods is numerous, but I'm going to run through the main ones with each.

Using the Find Groups page is just not useful in finding a group unless you already know the name of the Group or the Group's founder. While it does have some useful options to sort the results like Member count and Create date which can be used to determine activity in a group to a degree, it's pretty obvious that this search would be completely unhelpful for someone seeking to find new groups that interest them.

Searching through the signatures of forum users while reading threads can lead to discovering interesting groups which other members are involved in, but doing this also consumes far too much time if you have a specific type of group in mind. The chances of finding the Groups that interests you using this method are just too low and make it impractical.

The classifieds is the other option for members looking for groups. This forum is simply a mess. There is no order to the threads and using it to find groups is akin to searching for a needle in a haystack. The group directory thread is a perfect example of this. It's a complete mess of abandoned groups listed in no real order.

In order to fix this, I think the Groups need a major redesign. Groups need to be a more visible part of Bungie.net in order to attract more people to them. Adding and updating the Spotlight on the front page would help to do this.

Revamping the Find Groups page would also be very helpful. Since group names sometimes have little to do with the focus of the group itself, I think adding another search box would be a great way to improve the functionality of this page. The way the search would work is that instead of searching through group names, it could use a list of words provided by the groups administrator which describe the group (for example: fanfics, politics, books, star wars, etc.) much like meta tags in html pages.

Finally, I think the community could contribute to solving this problem by creating a working, updated directory of active Groups. I think the possibilities for this would be very wide, it could be just a thread with organized links or maybe even have a dedicated group to itself. Whatever form it would take, this is something the community needs.

""Groups" are what make up the core of the 7th Column here at Bungie.net."

I hope this thread will open up some discussion that will lead to making this sentence which I found on the Groups home-page a little more accurate.

  • 08.02.2006 9:25 PM PDT
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The chapters are in my opinion the best part of B.net. There are some tweeks that need to be done, but they play a huge role to me.

  • 08.02.2006 9:36 PM PDT
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I've been around these parts for almost eight years now...wow! Maybe I should be concerned about that...

I agree on many aspects. The group search is somewhat helpful, but it really can be very unhelpful in many situations...I also believe a type of keywords search would improve this immediatly.

And the spotlight...gosh, that thing has been inactive so long I didn't even know it exsisted! But rather than shining on one group, I think it should list groups with highest member count in certain catagories, such as Halo 3, Halo 2, Halo 1/PC, Off Topic, etc...

And as for a group database. Kd5shw has already created one, albeit it is a bit outdated.

Anyways, good post...the groups definetly need a facelift to make them an integral part of the column and Bungie, and not just a left-out side community.

[Edited on 8/2/2006]

  • 08.02.2006 9:39 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

I've got to agree with you there. Trying to search for a group is nearly impossible. The way I see it, the problem is that groups are usually not named precisely after their purpose, and trying to search for key words will turn up a thousand groups.

The first solution is the most obvious, and you have already pointed it out: Update the Group Search. By doing this, members have a better chance of finding groups within their criteria. If I am reading your post right, then we can probably also design a search that fixes the problem with group purposes not being put out in front by putting group purposes (as told by the creator of the group) out in front.

There is another problem however. Everyone can, and wants to, make a group. This is great when people have something fresh to bring to the table. But there are far too many groups that seem to be copies of others, with a new name and new look. If you wanted to find a group to discuss any one of the Halo games, you'd turn up thousands of results. We then come to the second solution, which then leads into what I feel is a paradox.

The second solution would be to severely limit what kind of groups can be created. By this I mean that while just about anyone can create a group, if they are just a copy of another group (whether it's because the member just wanted to create their own group or because they didn't know), they won't be able to create it, or it will be deleted soon after. The paradox of course is that if not everyone can make a group, then it severely limits how many people can take part in the group-making portion of the community. However, I don't see the existence of multiple groups that have the same purpose as helping the community. There are cases where groups are intent on becoming the only ones in its field. We then have more problems, namely, who would give up power? No one is going to willingly let go of what they have, because they want the recognition that they made the only _____ group on B.net.

So I agree that we need to make searching for a group less of a headache. I commend you on coming up with a solution (note that I personally haven't seen such a solution before) that sounds like it would work amazingly well in accomplishing this goal. However, I think there is still a problem that looms before us...and fixing it is not going to be easy.

  • 08.02.2006 9:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mabian
I've got to agree with you there. Trying to search for a group is nearly impossible. The way I see it, the problem is that groups are usually not named precisely after their purpose, and trying to search for key words will turn up a thousand groups.


I considered that too, but I think that the sorting options like member count and creation date could help someone narrow the results.

  • 08.03.2006 10:44 AM PDT
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I think we just need a seventh column page again. Right now we have a bunch of chapters running around with no head really.

  • 08.03.2006 10:51 AM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: Mekeritrig
Posted by: Mabian
I've got to agree with you there. Trying to search for a group is nearly impossible. The way I see it, the problem is that groups are usually not named precisely after their purpose, and trying to search for key words will turn up a thousand groups.


I considered that too, but I think that the sorting options like member count and creation date could help someone narrow the results.


I just want to make sure I know what your idea was:

A member creates a group, and along with the normal fields they put in (name, method of gaining membership, etc.), they also have to put in keywords they believe tells other members who want to consider joining what the group is supposed to be about. These keywords are then put up on the front page, and are used in group searches. That's what you were saying, right? That was the idea I was agreeing with.

  • 08.03.2006 11:24 AM PDT
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Posted by: Mabian
A member creates a group, and along with the normal fields they put in (name, method of gaining membership, etc.), they also have to put in keywords they believe tells other members who want to consider joining what the group is supposed to be about.


I was thinking more that the keywords wouldn't be visible on the actual group page, but would be hidden and put under Admin tools. Sorta like in an html page, the meta tags aren't visible to people reading the page.

  • 08.03.2006 11:45 AM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: Mekeritrig
Posted by: Mabian
A member creates a group, and along with the normal fields they put in (name, method of gaining membership, etc.), they also have to put in keywords they believe tells other members who want to consider joining what the group is supposed to be about.


I was thinking more that the keywords wouldn't be visible on the actual group page, but would be hidden and put under Admin tools. Sorta like in an html page, the meta tags aren't visible to people reading the page.


But as long as there is a search for such keywords, then we're on the same page.

  • 08.03.2006 11:50 AM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Posted by: stosh
I think we just need a seventh column page again. Right now we have a bunch of chapters running around with no head really.


And all these Chapters do is spam People with PM's. There are some Groups I've been messaged about that sounds interesting, but lately people just seem to Flood up my inbox with Group Invites.

Flattering? Yes.
Annoying? Sometimes.
A problem? Most Definitly.

And from the general consensus, I would say that the majority of people feel this way too, as they actually have "Don't send me Group Invites" in their sig, as GJJ so aptly pointed out in his Thread.

  • 08.03.2006 12:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: stosh
I think we just need a seventh column page again. Right now we have a bunch of chapters running around with no head really.



Whatever happend to that?

  • 08.03.2006 4:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: death incarneate
Posted by: stosh
I think we just need a seventh column page again. Right now we have a bunch of chapters running around with no head really.



Whatever happend to that?


Yea, i'd like to know as well. Ever since the site change I have forgotten.

  • 08.03.2006 4:28 PM PDT
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You think it got what it takes to be..?.


God forbid you send me one of those I was checking for cool gamers and saw you messages too, I will scream to the top of my lungs and smash this damn screen/BlackBerry to pieces! You've been warned -_-

There are groups that are....well.......stupid. I saw one group that is made for flammers. That was dumb.

  • 08.03.2006 4:36 PM PDT
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Only the paranoid will survive!

Posted by: BMW
There are groups that are....well.......stupid. I saw one group that is made for flammers. That was dumb.


Your point being?

An updated group search is a decent idea. Allow for more detailed searches and such.

  • 08.03.2006 10:10 PM PDT
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Finding active groups is pretty easy for me. I just check the group lists of members that I respect and I keep an eye on groups that are found in a lot of sigs. If one interests me I check it. There are a surprising number of active groups still around. It just takes patience to find them.

  • 08.04.2006 4:32 PM PDT

Skillet was here and referred to himself in the third person.

I think the biggest part of groups being better is that group's members being more active.

It's better to have ten active members in a group than 100 inactive members.

  • 08.04.2006 8:13 PM PDT