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This topic has moved here: Subject: FORERUNNERS ARE HUMANS!!!
  • Subject: FORERUNNERS ARE HUMANS!!!
Subject: FORERUNNERS ARE HUMANS!!!
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From what i've heard, the MC has some sort of translator that translates Grunt language.

  • 10.11.2004 9:47 AM PDT

Posted by: Grunty_Thirst
From what i've heard, the MC has some sort of translator that translates Grunt language.


I'm not sure where you heard that, but that were the case, then how do we know that 343 GS isn't being translated:-)

-Eagle 117

[Edited on 10/11/2004 9:57:43 AM]

  • 10.11.2004 9:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: Grunty_Thirst
There is one thing all of you are forgetting, why does 343 Guilty Spark speak English in the first place? And specifically with a british accent? I don't know about you guys but this is kinda significant between the link between the humans and the forerunners.

Who said 343 was a Forerunner A.I.? Why couldn't he be a plain old
Human A.I.? We discussed his accent in the post I linked to as well.

  • 10.11.2004 9:58 AM PDT
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If he was a "plain ole human A.I." then how could he have been programmed specifically to the Halo, when the modern humans didn't know anything about halo, refering it to as a "ring" or "object".

  • 10.11.2004 10:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: Eagle 117
Posted by: Grunty_Thirst
From what i've heard, the MC has some sort of translator that translates Grunt language.


I'm not sure where you heard that, but that were the case, then how do we know that 343 GS isn't being translated:-)

-Eagle 117


because that's the human's first encounter with the 343 GS.

  • 10.11.2004 10:05 AM PDT
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Posted by: Grunty_Thirst
If he was a "plain ole human A.I." then how could he have been programmed specifically to the Halo, when the modern humans didn't know anything about halo, refering it to as a "ring" or "object".

The ring has been fired before, so 343 would have to have been on
Halo since before the ring was fired. After the ring(s) were fired,
Human kind would have been wiped out. I'm sure Humans had enough
foresight to create some kind of genesis program that would restart
their civilization. This would effectively erase all memory of the Halo
in the 101,217 local years that passed with 343 on Halo.

  • 10.11.2004 10:10 AM PDT
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Wait, hold on, are you saying forerunners are humans? (Or descendants of humans I personally think) cuz thats where i'm tryin to lead you guys to.

  • 10.11.2004 10:17 AM PDT
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I don't know if that will be revealed in Halo 2, but it's a good theory. By the way, where in the world did you learn how to spell?

  • 10.11.2004 10:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: Grunty_Thirst
Wait, hold on, are you saying forerunners are humans? (Or descendants of humans I personally think) cuz thats where i'm tryin to lead you guys to.

No, I don't think the Forerunner are Humans, or related to them.
(maybe related genetically, but that's as far as I'd go) I think it's more
plausible that Humans were once servants to the Forerunner, but due
to our higher intelligence and inclination to resist oppression, we
broke off. The Covenant who were also once servants, but in the lower
caste because of their lower intelligence, were totally subservient. I
think it went down like this: Humans were very high in the Forerunner
caste, but in a freak accident(?) one day, the Flood were released. The
races that make up the Covenant were angry with Humans because
they made the Forerunner go away somehow. Whether it be death
or abandonment, the Humans are the cause for the absence of the
Forerunner, thus making the Covenant quite P.O.ed.

I think the reason 343's dialogue is so confusing is because he
sees 117 as a machine: neither Human, Forerunner, or Covenant.

If you pay attention to 343's ramblings, you'll notice he refers to
your environment suit and combat skin seperately. I don't know
much about a Spartan's anatomy, but I think the "combat skin"
343 talks about is your actual body. It kind of makes you wonder
how many parts machine the Forerunner are, if not all machine
or A.I.



[Edited on 10/11/2004 11:42:24 AM]

  • 10.11.2004 11:40 AM PDT

Posted by: Grunty_Thirst
because that's the human's first encounter with the 343 GS.

If he was a "plain ole human A.I." then how could he have been programmed specifically to the Halo, when the modern humans didn't know anything about halo, refering it to as a "ring" or "object".


Actually, some humans (Ackerson/ONI) did know about Halo before the PoA blindly jumped to it.

Posted by:Eagle 117 (Me)
A plethora evidence for this accusation can be found in the books. Cortana derived the coordinates of Halo 04 from the symbols found on the artifact at Sigma Octanus IV (p.335-336, TFoR). That same artifact was used to send a Covenant transmission from the planet Sigma Octanus IV to a Covenant stealth ship in orbit around the planet. Keys (Iroquois) intercepted part of the transmission, and we later find that this transmission and symbols found on the artifact were shown to Col. Ackerson (p.231-235, TFoR)

We know for a fact that the artifact found on Sigma Octanus IV had coordinates to the Epsilon Eridani system (Reach), which is shown by Col. Ackerson’s own analysis in the S-III file (p.130, FS). We also know for a fact that the artifact symbols gave the coordinates to Halo 04, which is shown by Cortana using the coordinates for the PoA’s “blind” jump away from Reach (p 336, TFoR). In the S-III file there are two sets of coordinates. One coordinate, which is plainly stated to be taken from the artifact symbols found on Sigma Octanus IV, gives the location of Reach. The other location in the S-III file is in uncontrolled chartered UNSC space. Cortana describes the coordinates to Halo 04 using the exact same terms: “uncontrolled UNSC space.”(p.336, TFoR) One can easily see that the two sets of coordinates, which are both located in the S-III file around the details of the artifact found on Sigma Octanus IV, are a likely 99% match.(p.130, FS).

Given that Ackerson derived the coordinates of the Epsilon Eridani system (Reach) from the symbols on the artifact, then it's logical to conclude that he, like Cortana, found the coordinates of Halo 04. Ackerson was involved with something at this “uncontrolled UNSC coordinates,” which I've shown to be the location of Halo 04. Further evidence of this can be found in several MP map descriptions. Rat Race, for example, is described as an “asymmetrical map which involves some human mining into one of Halo's hallway system.” As was discussed in an earlier thread of mine, the humans who escaped the Pillar of Autumn, only to crash land on Halo, certainly didn’t have the time, man power, nor equipment to go on a “mining expedition” into one Halo’s hallway system. However, we do know that in the S-III file, right after the details of those coordinates, there is a brief mention of Ackerson being interested in procuring digging equipment: “Additional files detailed the procurement of digging equipment, and a new set of blueprints and geological surveys. The new maps looked like a network of veins and arteries. What am I looking at, Kalmiya? According to the coordinates of these secondary maps, Doctor, this facility was built over an old titanium mine... and before that this site was surveyed as an extinct volcano. These are designated as a series of lave tubes. I wonder if they used the natural passages to help build the mines, and later this facility. Dr. Halsey removed her glasses and cleaned them as she thought this through. No... if it was as simple as that, why would Ackerson be interested? And why then classify this data as level X-ray? How does this connect to the alien artifact of Cote d Azur?” (p.131 FS) I won't go any further into the MP map descriptions, though, becasue I know that some of you find their descriptions to be major coincidences, and nothing more;-)

In an interview between HBO and Eric Nylund (the author of Halo: TFOR and FS), this question was posed to the author, “Why, if Halo is in uncharted space, are the moon and planet know as Basis and Threshold?” Nylund responded with, “I’ll throw out a clue here: “uncharted” from whose perspective? “Surveyed” by whom?” I believe this was a hint pointing toward ONI, because they are the ones who charter space ( Office of Navy Intel ). To add to this, if one looks at the computer monitor on the bridge of the PoA during the first mission, then they will notice that it displays the names Basis and HALO. Does it seem a reasonable possition to hold that the PoA's computers name planets/moons/and strange artifacts as it comes across them? Of course not. Those names are displayed because they are the names assigned to them by the Navy when this are of "uncontolled UNSC space" was chartered. If Threshold/Basis were charted, then someone must have discovered Halo before the Pillar of Autumn did the so called “blind” jump to it.

After all this, mainly the coordinates found on the artifact parts, it’s quite easy to see the Ackerson knew of Halo 04 before the PoA’s blind jump:-)


That was from another one of my threads:-)

-Eagle 117



[Edited on 10/11/2004 2:34:08 PM]

  • 10.11.2004 2:28 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

ok i think its time for me to get in on this. Eagle,would you bring me up to date on whats being discussed here?

  • 10.11.2004 2:36 PM PDT

Well, you didn't miss much; that is, not much that you haven't already discussed with others over a dozen times:-)

Basically, this thread originated as a Human = Forerunner debate, but it's now turned into a 343 GS debate: was he made by the Forerunners, were the surviviors of the PoA 343 GS's first encounter with "modern" humans, etc:-)

Long time no see. Where have you been, or have I just not run into you over these last few weeks?

-Eagle 117

[Edited on 10/11/2004 2:52:44 PM]

  • 10.11.2004 2:48 PM PDT

­"You have to aim above the head, but then a little lower so you actually get it."

-John Mayer

[quote]Posted by: DelJay
now that i see that someone cares i can get into my other resones
In the second lvl "Halo" when u go under ground and activate the light bridge, the book mentions that when MC went up an looked at the control panel he somehow just by instinct and a very strong feeling, knew which botton to press, which cortana couldnt figure out her-selfhow he knew. [quote]

Thats because the artifact on one of earth's colonies (the one in Fall of Reach) cortana and chief went to stop the covenant from stealing it, the artifact was a forerunner artifact. It had directions on it leading to earth, and some other things. Which cortana interpretted. When they jumped from reach, cortana drew a random vector from her memory, and the artifact's directions is what fate landed on.

  • 10.11.2004 2:58 PM PDT
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Humans are somehow related to the covenant. My proof is in First Strike when Fred steals the Wraith, he knows what controls do what in the wraith, even though they are in the alien language. That means that maybe the spartan augmentations bring those humans back close to what they may have been in the time of the Forerunners. None of the other humans were able to do about the same thing.

About the grunts speaking in english from time to time, the Covenant consider the humans to be the scum of the universe (hate to say it, but they're right). What would make a better cuss than speaking in a heritic language.

Lastly, unless the forerunner language was able to be translated 343's meaninless babble would have been even MORE meaningless babble than it was. (I hate 343)

  • 10.11.2004 6:40 PM PDT
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Ummm ok Halo was desighned to destroy all sentient life in the galaxy wich means....Humans the Forerunner are highly advanced non sentient beings...Non living breathing no organs you get the picture

[Edited on 10/11/2004 6:51:07 PM]

  • 10.11.2004 6:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: The42ndWarrior
Humans are somehow related to the covenant. My proof is in First Strike when Fred steals the Wraith, he knows what controls do what in the wraith, even though they are in the alien language. That means that maybe the spartan augmentations bring those humans back close to what they may have been in the time of the Forerunners. None of the other humans were able to do about the same thing.

About the grunts speaking in english from time to time, the Covenant consider the humans to be the scum of the universe (hate to say it, but they're right). What would make a better cuss than speaking in a heritic language.

Lastly, unless the forerunner language was able to be translated 343's meaninless babble would have been even MORE meaningless babble than it was. (I hate 343)

I don't think that necessarily means Humans are related to Covenant,
(although that is possible) I do think it means that Humans and
Covies get some of their technology from the same place. (Forerunner)
Ever wondered why the Covenant didn't just glass Earth? Why go
through the trouble of sending massive ground forces when you
could nuke them from orbit? The answer may be that we have
Forerunner technology here on Earth, but it's top secret, and the
Spartan program could be based entirely on Forerunner tech.
The armor, genetic enhancements. . .everything basically.

If Spartan genetic enhancements were based on Forerunner tech,
it makes you wonder what kind of information, or instinct the
Spartans would be imbued with. Also, in the books I think one of
the Spartans recalls being in The Library, or remembering some-
thing about it. If you go to the Library forum on this very website,
you'll notice that it defines a Library as A collection of cloned
DNA sequences whose location and identity can be established
by mapping the genome of a particular organism
. Could the
Spartans be Clones of some DNA found in the Library? I don't
think this means that Humans must be Forerunner however,
as there could be many species' DNA in The Library, including
Humans. (super humans in this case)

  • 10.11.2004 7:02 PM PDT
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if i am not mistaken eagle 117 and chaplain have both written theories on this subject.. i argued both... im not bothering this time...

  • 10.11.2004 7:09 PM PDT
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That's right. My plumage is brighter than yours.

didnt i make a thread like this before already?

  • 10.11.2004 7:27 PM PDT

Posted by: eMCee
If you go to the Library forum on this very website,
you'll notice that it defines a Library as A collection of cloned
DNA sequences whose location and identity can be established
by mapping the genome of a particular organism
.



Thanks for pointing that out.

I had never noticed it before:-)

-Eagle 117

  • 10.11.2004 7:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Me
If you go to the Library forum on this very website,
you'll notice that it defines a Library as A collection of cloned
DNA sequences whose location and identity can be established
by mapping the genome of a particular organism.



Posted by: Eagle 117
Thanks for pointing that out.

I had never noticed it before:-)

-Eagle 117

Yeah, those Bungie guys are pretty sneaky.

P.S. how do you make a quote inside a quote? I've never figured
that one out.

  • 10.11.2004 7:44 PM PDT

Posted by: eMCee
Posted by: Me
If you go to the Library forum on this very website,
you'll notice that it defines a Library as A collection of cloned
DNA sequences whose location and identity can be established
by mapping the genome of a particular organism.



Posted by: Eagle 117
Thanks for pointing that out.

I had never noticed it before:-)

-Eagle 117

Yeah, those Bungie guys are pretty sneaky.

P.S. how do you make a quote inside a quote? I've never figured
that one out.


Respond to this post, click the QUOTE button at the bottom of the respond window, and then look at how the code for the double quote in my response to you.

I could try to explain it to you, but seeing it for yourself should work better:-)

-Eagle 117

[Edited on 10/11/2004 7:51:51 PM]

  • 10.11.2004 7:50 PM PDT
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You new guys should go over to the HBO Halo story page and read up on all the theories and background info to really get some ideas in your head. I particularly reccomend the "Rampant Speculation" area. Good stuff (not to mention a little tru7h).

  • 10.13.2004 10:07 AM PDT
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Ok. So all yall say it went from human=forerunner debate to 343GS debate. Well, whats to say guilty spark wasnt the creator of the forerunner? Or the 'death' of the forerunner?

  • 10.15.2004 8:37 PM PDT
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if the forerunners are humans and the covenant think the forerunners gods why are the covenant killing us?

  • 10.15.2004 8:49 PM PDT
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Ther are so many therories that can fall into play with a subject like this. It is established in the books thst the Covenant are trying to find a specific artifact of forunner technology, and are finding it on human colonized worlds. Maybe the forunner created our species as a gaurdian being to protect their legacy, and one day plan to return. This may be why the Covies hate us so much. They might think that we're a joke and just want to wipe us out so that they can clame the forunner technology.

  • 10.15.2004 9:11 PM PDT