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Subject: Does space go on forever?

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Makes you think about the relationship between science and theology.. Maybe they really ARE both right.

  • 10.11.2004 8:14 PM PDT
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Some people believe that after expanding for so many years, the galaxies inside the universe will start pulling together again. Then a "Big Crunch" will take place, the opposite of the Big Bang.

  • 10.11.2004 8:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: Banshee Barron
Something without end? Just thinking about it is beyond me; everything I know has an end, but to be endless? It makes me wonder, where does the void end, where does it lead to? How can there be pure nothingness?


But how could we - simple humans - understand it?

Wouldn't there be greater things at work, that we may never understand?

  • 10.11.2004 8:16 PM PDT

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Makes you think about the relationship between science and theology.. Maybe they really ARE both right.


Hm. Perhaps I'll find out when I'm dead. Or perhaps not. The universe is so complex, so far beyond us. I have so many questions that will probably never be answered, because they will never have answers.

  • 10.11.2004 8:17 PM PDT

Posted by: Stickman Army
Posted by: Banshee Barron
Something without end? Just thinking about it is beyond me; everything I know has an end, but to be endless? It makes me wonder, where does the void end, where does it lead to? How can there be pure nothingness?


But how could we - simple humans - understand it?

Wouldn't there be greater things at work, that we may never understand?


That is exactly where I'm stumped. How could something so incredible just be here, without any type of design required? It was just suddenly made randomly, they say. How could that be possible? How can something come of nothingness?

  • 10.11.2004 8:19 PM PDT
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The same questions could be asked about life?

  • 10.11.2004 8:21 PM PDT
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I wonder if this e'll get religious...

  • 10.11.2004 8:22 PM PDT

Posted by: Stickman Army
The same questions could be asked about life?


Heh, heh. I don't really know where to start. I've thought about all of this long and hard, and couldn't find an answer. I figured out that we will never know, so there is no need to worry about it. ;-)

  • 10.11.2004 8:25 PM PDT

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Posted by: lysergicide
I'm starting to think that people just don't even read my posts, are they really that hefty for you guys?... lol.

Anyway, Science and Theology, the two pillars of light. Science the apollan, and Theology the dionysian I guess...

Who knows.

The point is, there is no one path that leads to enlightenment, only a vast nexus of paths that we tend to seperate into two "distinct" catagories. Remember 1000 years ago, scientists were called magicians, maybe 1000 years from now, magicians will be called scientists. There is a lot more to the supernatural than delusions of grandeur, but also don't forget, science is the most grandiose of delusions, the idea that we can catagorize, explain, and understand everything is as preposterous as it gets.


Agreed, but - we are all to far from any true realization that it's foolish to attempt to prove it - but thinking about it is just fine.

  • 10.11.2004 8:29 PM PDT

"Does space go on forever?"

Yes, it is a fact.... period.

  • 10.11.2004 8:41 PM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

Probably not. Some scientist will try and state otherwise, but he's obviously just making crap up. And no, there's no life out there, it's just the devil -blam!- with you.

  • 10.11.2004 9:09 PM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Makes you think about the relationship between science and theology.. Maybe they really ARE both right.


Or they're both wrong.


Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Twelve Large
Probably not. Some scientist will try and state otherwise, but he's obviously just making crap up. And no, there's no life out there, it's just the devil -blam!- with you.

Okay, so the scientists are making crap up, according to the guy who says that he knows what the devil's motives are. Right?


Well, if I was the devil, that's what I'd do. :p Sorry. I'm just making up stuff, for kicks, don't kill me. I love science!



[Edited on 10/11/2004 9:26:22 PM]

  • 10.11.2004 9:24 PM PDT

Space does have a shape. There is a whole branch of science concerned with it, called topology. Essentially, the universe is the surface of a 4-dimensional sphere. If we lived in a 2-dimensional universe, it would be the surface of a 3-dimensional sphere - like a balloon. This is why, if you continue in one direction, you will end up back at your starting point - just like if you sailed around the world, or an ant walked around a balloon.

Don't try to imagine a 4-D sphere. It's impossible. Luckily, we can still do maths in higher dimensions, so we can develop these theories.

- Reiginko

  • 10.12.2004 12:38 AM PDT
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(Just a theory)

Who says theres only one universe though?... it's not like theres only one atom, one particle or one planet (all spheres)... surely beyond our universe theres a whole other bunch of universes.
Space should go on forever, could you imagine a brick wall on the very outside saying:
"Sorry, this is the end of the universe, please turn back the way you came."
If anything the universe will expand and expand until it runs out of fuel, then it'll go BOOM... and start again.


  • 10.12.2004 6:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: Helljumper76
I was going to post this in the extra-terrestrial thread but then I decided it needed it's own thread and a poll.

If space continues forever then chances are there is intelligent life out there. We probably will never find them but they probably exist. A lot of people think (myself included) that space does not go on forever but if you were to travel far enough in one direction you would some how end up where you started. The idea that anything could go on forever is just too dificult to believe. What do you think?

Guess that depends how you define existence, reality and Etc...

  • 10.12.2004 6:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: Reiginko
Space does have a shape. There is a whole branch of science concerned with it, called topology. Essentially, the universe is the surface of a 4-dimensional sphere. If we lived in a 2-dimensional universe, it would be the surface of a 3-dimensional sphere - like a balloon. This is why, if you continue in one direction, you will end up back at your starting point - just like if you sailed around the world, or an ant walked around a balloon.

Don't try to imagine a 4-D sphere. It's impossible. Luckily, we can still do maths in higher dimensions, so we can develop these theories.

- Reiginko


A 4-D sphere? If it's impossible for it to exist how can we be living in it?

  • 10.12.2004 1:50 PM PDT

I didn't say it's impossible for a 4-D sphere to exist, I said it's impossible to imagine one.

- Reiginko

  • 10.12.2004 8:44 PM PDT
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Holy Beast! You made me think too hard.

  • 10.12.2004 8:54 PM PDT
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Sorry normally I'd contribute the fact that technically if you took the odds of intelligent life existing on a planet, and paired that up with the theory that the universe is infinite, that means there has to be intelligent life out there somewhere.

For example, lets say that the there's about a 1 in a 100 trillion chance that there can be intelligent life on a planet (It's probably much more but oh well)
and the universe is infinite

that means there's atleast 100 trillion planets out there. So there's at least one with life.......

but I'm to tired.


(btw shouldn't Obbi be in this conversation somewherE?)

[Edited on 10/12/2004 9:01:27 PM]

  • 10.12.2004 9:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: Stickman Army
Some people believe that after expanding for so many years, the galaxies inside the universe will start pulling together again. Then a "Big Crunch" will take place, the opposite of the Big Bang.
For that theory to work, there has to be enough matter(Including so-called "Dark Matter") in the universe for it's gravity to cause it to collapse in on itself. If not, then the universe wil expand infinitely, and black holes will swallow almost everything until they evaporate, then there will only be a couple of stray particles every hundred lightyears. But in the event of a Big Crunch, black holes will merge, the backround temperature of space will get so hot that stars will boil away, and all the black holes in the universe will merge into a super black hole, until the universe winks away into nothingness. I prefer the latter, and quote Robert Frost's Fire and Ice

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire
But if I had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To know that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice


Also, if there was a Big Crunch, it could bounce back, and result in another Big Bang that could create a brand new universe. And another thing that might confuse you: Before the Big Bang, there was no time or space. If this was true, how could time pass to get to the point of when the Big Bang occured? And about the edge of space thing, since the universe began, here is what I have to say. "Everything that has a beginning, has an end."

P.S. If you know me, you will notice that this is the one of the only times I have said something intelligent on the forums. And also, I have been really good at astronomy and science since I was 5. I drew a picture of all the planets in order labeled with the correct names, and roughly accurate appearances and scales.

[Edited on 10/12/2004 10:40:16 PM]

  • 10.12.2004 10:34 PM PDT
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Oh yeah, for this, what are we defining "Space" as?

  • 10.13.2004 9:28 PM PDT

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Posted by: Captain Fleas
Oh yeah, for this, what are we defining "Space" as?


You will find definition on the first page.

Reiginko has the most scientifically accepted theory for shape - but I still want to know the basis for the measurement - (a.g. what provides the outside perspective for something to exist like that, if the 4-D sphere exists, what does it exist in?)

  • 10.14.2004 5:27 AM PDT

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