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Subject: Does space go on forever?
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Posted by: Banshee Barron
Posted by: Stickman Army
Posted by: Banshee Barron
Something without end? Just thinking about it is beyond me; everything I know has an end, but to be endless? It makes me wonder, where does the void end, where does it lead to? How can there be pure nothingness?


But how could we - simple humans - understand it?

Wouldn't there be greater things at work, that we may never understand?


That is exactly where I'm stumped. How could something so incredible just be here, without any type of design required? It was just suddenly made randomly, they say. How could that be possible? How can something come of nothingness?


Have any of you used a gravitation program that let's you play around with mass, gravity, and inertia to make a solar system?? It's really, really hard to make a stable solar system (a system where your objects don't smash into one another or fly off into space), the best I can do is have 4 smaller mass bodies orbiting a greater mass body (which would represent a sun) in a symmetrical pattern. everything else I would try would eventually end up smashing or give up objects so that there would be only one or 2 bodies left..



Posted by: Nosferatu_Soldie
"Does space go on forever?"

Yes, it is a fact.... period.


It used to be a scientific fact that the earth was flat too.. It was said to be impossoble to go faster than sound, or to fly, and etc...
I don't know if it's good or not to set limits (probably is, just so people can break 'em).



Here's just a thought probably in line more with Reiginko's comment;
A ring continues forever.
Does it have limits?

  • 10.14.2004 7:23 AM PDT
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think space is infinite and definite. Maybe kinda like Star fox multiplayer for example. There is a limited area to explore, but it basically repeats itself. So if you are going straight and reach and "edge" you appear on the "other side". Also the universe (space) is recursive.

[Edited on 10/14/2004 10:37:45 AM]

  • 10.14.2004 10:35 AM PDT
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I have to agree with echo 630's post at the beginning. Thats how i always though about whats outside the universe, but as more of what a window would look like with nothin behind it, not darkness or light, just nothing.

Supposedly there was no space before the big bang (im not sure what the universe is expanding into) and so there is a limit, but it is so vast that there is probably life out there some where...
(que x files theme)

  • 10.14.2004 1:31 PM PDT
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because a triangle has beginnings. the points. spheres are completely devoid of identifying marks. i agree with the seraph.
Posted by: MJOLNIRdragoon
Posted by: Fallen Seraph
I believe that the universe is a sphere, so it has no real end, but no real beggining.


hey, im not insulting your oppinion or anything, but if ya think about it, if the universe goes on forever, then its not any shape in particular... or all shapes.. why not it be a triangle that goes on forever?... just a little food for thought...

  • 10.14.2004 1:41 PM PDT
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the way space would end up working is that if the big bang is correct, its happened hundreds of times before

the way atoms work is that all energy is conserved, none will dissapear

space expands, then when gravity between all atoms is at the least it can possibly get to, it will condense into the marble again, and a new bang occures.

One can never reach the edge of space, for the if not for the obvious reason that you would be long dead and decayed b4 u got there, that there is no end. If it is a curved sphere, can you find an edge? a sphere has no edge, anybody with math knows that. same as a sqaure has 4 and a triangle 3, a sphere has none. Thus, assuming u reach the edge (meaning the wall of the sphere..) , all that would happen would be u would begin to travel the outside of the sphere as it expanded. All this assumes that there is one universe. With the (proven i belive) multiverse theory that all possible choices can and will happen, (parrel universes, basicly Hitler won WW2 in one, the USA never won the Revolutionary War, Pearl Harbor never happened, and you, my friend, never existed..), we could theoretically bend time and space to travel extraordiaryly far in a short amount of time..
space can be represented by a string.. --------------------
if we take that string, and bend it, so the ends meet themselves, its a much shorter string, -- for us to cross.. (if u ever read A Wrinkle in Time, think the string and the ant example)

What all that means is, if u can bend space, you can make 1000 lightyears a few miles, by folding space. Or, you can rip space-time and go to a parrel universe, and in theory do whatever u wanted, b/c every choice happens. If we killed Hitler in WW2, lets simplyfy it and say all possible choices were that he lives or dies.

A universe where he lives appears, and one were he dies.

In one where he dies, choices become Allies win, or remaing Axis counrtries win, thus making more universes

In one where he lived, say choices are Axis win, or Allies win.

If allies won, we end up essentially in this universe

but, in other universe Axis won, and were all speakin German right now.

Yes, its confusing, but essentially every possible outcome happens, spawnign a parrel universe. A good book with an example of this much clearer is Micheal Crichton's book, Timeline (great book, sucky movie, read book then see movie almost a complety diffrent thing)

  • 10.14.2004 1:49 PM PDT
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wow.. that was longer than i thought..

but do read Crichtons book timeline, it really does have a great example of quantom physics and parralel universes

  • 10.14.2004 1:50 PM PDT
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well. i agree with shadowfish. i, for one, read his entire, boring post.

  • 10.14.2004 1:51 PM PDT
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except god created the universe. how did the universe get started before the first big bang, anyway??


awww.... dammit!! i'm getting relegious!! disregaurd my post.

  • 10.14.2004 1:52 PM PDT
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It can't possibly. Look around, you are not in space right now. The Earth and other heavenly bodies take up volume which denies the notion that space goes on forever. In other words space ends at our atmosphere.

-Ringer

  • 10.14.2004 1:58 PM PDT
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lol... well.. way i heard it, since matter is neither created nor destroyed, it has to renew, and cant keep expanding, else all matter would lose contact and gravity would be gone in all small amounts, thus ending the universe.

it has to come back into a small dense object, then heat and pressure explode it again, renewing all matter, or else it would drift apart

  • 10.14.2004 1:59 PM PDT
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space does not end at atmosphere

at edge of atmosphere is empty space

unless by space u mean a lack of mass, u just said that the universe ends at a planet, when planets are in the universe

  • 10.14.2004 2:00 PM PDT
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You can convert matter into energy, and therefore there must be a way to be able to do the reverse...

A super being may have created the universe, but he sure didn't say how he did..

  • 10.14.2004 2:03 PM PDT
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Yea that makes you wanna think if space goes on forever that would mean teres an infinate # of plaents and probally life but we probally never even get as far as another galaxy because youd have to go millions of miles per second to make it by age 80 but did you know voyager the space probe left our solar system and found a planet similar to earth but bigger! it was on the discovery channel last year oh and what also makes you think is Cyber Space now that goes on forever because its called internet but how did it exist when computers were linked howd they make it never ending did you know your computer only goes so far because it can only tae so much information space is a great mystery

  • 10.14.2004 2:04 PM PDT
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well, idk, nobody realy converted matter to energy b4, einstein just said e=mc2

Perhaps we are all just an antfarm to a bigger thing, which in turn is an antfarm to yet larger entities.. and so on.. untill.. ITS A COW!!! AHHHHHHHH

  • 10.14.2004 2:06 PM PDT
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umm.. that made very little sense, all jumbled, no periods or punctuation really..

also, this is about the universe, not cyberspace.
cyberspace is not really space, just information bewteen silicon chips..

also e=mc2 says matter can make energy, so energy can make matter

but you would need a tremendous amount of it to do a small amount..

  • 10.14.2004 2:08 PM PDT
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Space ends at the atmosphere. Space is a vacuum - meaning nothing. I never said anything about the universe. That is an entirely different question to which no one (yet) can answer.

You are correct. Space borders the atmosphere and at that point it ceases. Therefore space does not 'go on forever'.

-Ringer


Posted by: shadowfish
space does not end at atmosphere

at edge of atmosphere is empty space

unless by space u mean a lack of mass, u just said that the universe ends at a planet, when planets are in the universe

  • 10.14.2004 2:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: shadowfish
umm.. that made very little sense, all jumbled, no periods or punctuation really..

also, this is about the universe, not cyberspace.
cyberspace is not really space, just information bewteen silicon chips..

also e=mc2 says matter can make energy, so energy can make matter

but you would need a tremendous amount of it to do a small amount..


True.

If I remember right..
During a nuclear explosion, in addition to the bonds breaking up releasing energy, a very tiny amount of matter is converted into energy (which also adds to the boom).

whether there is a boundry to our universe or not I don't know, but my money is down on the infiniteness of space- that there isn't a boundry, at least with the first 3 dimensions.

[Edited on 10/14/2004 2:17:56 PM]

  • 10.14.2004 2:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: shadowfish
lol... well.. way i heard it, since matter is neither created nor destroyed, it has to renew, and cant keep expanding, else all matter would lose contact and gravity would be gone in all small amounts, thus ending the universe.

it has to come back into a small dense object, then heat and pressure explode it again, renewing all matter, or else it would drift apart


Just because objects in the universe are hurtling away from one another does not imply that the universe will end. It just means that the universe is getting bigger. And if something can get bigger implies that it can not be infinite.

And energy does not renew. There is the same amount of energy in existence now as there was at the beginning of the universe. The same as there will be until the end.

-Ringer

[Edited on 10/14/2004 2:19:12 PM]

  • 10.14.2004 2:14 PM PDT
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Hello, a nuclear explosion is the conversion of matter into energy. Remember that matter = energy and visa versa.

Just look at the sun. It is an ongoing nuclear reaction. Soon all it's fuel will be converted and it will burn out.

-Ringer

[Edited on 10/14/2004 2:18:29 PM]

  • 10.14.2004 2:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ringer

Just because objects in the universe are hurtling away from one another does not imply that the universe will end. It just means that the universe is getting bigger. And if something can get bigger implies that it can not be infinite.

And energy does not renew. There is the same amount of energy in existence now as there was at the beginning of the universe. The same as there will be until the end.

-Ringer


not necessarily, all that implies is a limit to how far you have to go before you reach an area where matter has not been ever before.

  • 10.14.2004 2:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: Blackmarch


not necessarily, all that implies is a limit to how far you have to go before you reach an area where matter has not been ever before.



So then space is not infinite by your definition. But still, space exists in the absence of matter so why is that relevant?

-Ringer

  • 10.14.2004 2:41 PM PDT
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As being able to move in 3 dimensions infinitely in any direction was present... all matter may have started at a point and is expanding from that point.

Uhhm, my definition of universe is the total area of 3 dimensions (also 4th) that our reality is in...
When you talk about the universe is it more or less the same?

  • 10.15.2004 6:43 AM PDT

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