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Subject: bungie hypocrites
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

It's because Immature kids will abuse that word to no other.

Look- I understand your frustration. And your desire to see what's done right. I can tell this is not just some "Pissed off at Bungie" rant. But you have to understand: N_ _B is forbidden, and rightly so.

Could you imagine what would happen if it wasn't enforced? I garauntee it would be abused more than any other word- that's a fact. They enforce it so tightly because they don't want people to use it as a put down, or a way to get a lame joke across.

I think the job is being done fine. The word is banished for good reason. They aren't hypocrites, they're just trying to show us the way.

[Edited on 8/14/2006]

  • 08.14.2006 6:08 AM PDT
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Hmmm...this is kinda true. Btw, you will most likely be blacklisted or this thread will be locked if your lucky.

  • 08.14.2006 6:08 AM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Posted by: XxShadowmanxX
Hmmm...this is kinda true. Btw, you will most likely be blacklisted or this thread will be locked if your lucky.


Don't say that please. They really don't like it when people cast judgement on others. If the moderators want to lock it, they'll lock it. If they want to blacklist, they'll blacklist.

But unless you're a Forum Ninja, don't say what punishment is to befall anyone.

  • 08.14.2006 6:10 AM PDT
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ಠ_ಠ

If you're referring to Recon's rant, then you must not understand. Recon was comparing how that word is used almost as derogative as the big "N" word. He's also not an employee at Bungie, so they're not hypocrites.

But mainly the reason the word is so pushed on us so strictly is because most of the members here can't seem to use the word without insulting another member here. Recon's rant was just explaining in high detail how he feels about the use of the word.

[Edited on 8/14/2006]

  • 08.14.2006 6:10 AM PDT
Subject: bungie hypocrites
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the word "noob" is so shunned here it's rediculous
i even read one moderators rant once comparing the word "noob" to another "big N word"

if that's the staff opinion then that's fine and the rules should be enforced as much as possible.

but when i read every moderator -blam!-ing about the "little n word" and then i see the same word used in the weekly update it makes me wonder why it's ok for them to say it but not ok for us...

[Edited on 8/14/2006]

  • 08.14.2006 6:03 AM PDT
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they are hypocrites when they say "don't say noob"
then in the weekly update they say "...so I get the minor joy of pwning noobs."

that is the definition of hypocrite right there

don't get me wrong here
i understand why they don't want people to use the word and all
i'm all for them enforcing their own rules

but how about leading by example....

[Edited on 8/14/2006]

  • 08.14.2006 6:15 AM PDT
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The Frozen Minority - The most infamous clan borne from the Seventh Column.

I don't remember the last time Frankie said
"You guys are all n****, my belief pwns your idea in the face!".

It is simply the E-word of choice for elitists. As such, it is suppressed.



  • 08.14.2006 6:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pezza
I don't remember the last time Frankie said
"You guys are all n****, my belief pwns your idea in the face!".

It is simply the E-word of choice for elitists. As such, it is suppressed.





why don't you read the update and then tell me what you think....

  • 08.14.2006 6:18 AM PDT
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ಠ_ಠ

It's simply a rib-poke at all the people that continually use the word as an insult. Frankie likes to play around a lot, so do most of the moderators.

  • 08.14.2006 6:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: The SyNnergy
It's simply a rib-poke at all the people that continually use the word as an insult. Frankie likes to play around a lot, so do most of the moderators.



maybe i should just run around using the "big N word" as a "rib-poke" to all the racists on xbox live...

  • 08.14.2006 6:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: Alien Zulu
Posted by: The SyNnergy
It's simply a rib-poke at all the people that continually use the word as an insult. Frankie likes to play around a lot, so do most of the moderators.



maybe i should just run around using the "big N word" as a "rib-poke" to all the racists on xbox live...


What do you propose is done to improve the situation then? You have outlined your opinion, justified it and supported it, so tell me, what should be undertaken now?

  • 08.14.2006 6:24 AM PDT
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Posted by: Alien Zulu
maybe i should just run around using the "big N word" as a "rib-poke" to all the racists on xbox live...

No, because that's socially unacceptable.

-TGP-

  • 08.14.2006 6:24 AM PDT

The forums have the rule about not using the word "noob" or any of it's variants and the rule was created by and enforced by the moderators. Bungie employees don't need to follow the rules set by the moderators for their news stories, because this is their site to do with what they wish. Remember, "Bungie controls everything. You have no rights. Play nice."

Hell, I remember one time Frankie created a thread in The Underground that didn't "belong" there and I was so tempted to move it. Obviously, me moving it would have been the wrong thing to do because this is Bungie's site, not mine.

  • 08.14.2006 6:24 AM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

The big reason (as a few people have tried to say) is intent. When Frankie or a mod (and some other people) says the word, they're joking around. Hell, I use quotations whenever I use the word. If everyone did that, it'd be fine. We'd be using it rarely in the first place, and no one would feel bad when they were called it, because they knew the other person was just fooling around. But since roughly 85% of the regular posting members wish to abuse the word, it's not allowed. That's not to say that if you use the word, or even reference it, you're as good as dead. If you use it as a part of a joke on rare occasions, the mods will probably overlook it, and perhaps even join in on the joke with you. If you use it as an insult, you're going to find yourself in a lot of trouble.

This clear it up?

  • 08.14.2006 6:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pezza
What do you propose is done to improve the situation then? You have outlined your opinion, justified it and supported it, so tell me, what should be undertaken now?


what should be done? how about if bungie sticks to their guns?
i'm a super mod on a very large forum (almost 45,000 registered users)
we have rules and it is my job to enforce them so i know where you guys are coming from. i can get away with breaking the rules if i want but that is a horrible example for the community and basically says that it's ok. ultimately all i would be doing is making my job harder.

i just think that if bungie says it's not ok to do then maybe they shouldn't do it themselves. like i said "lead by example"

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Posted by: Alien Zulu
maybe i should just run around using the "big N word" as a "rib-poke" to all the racists on xbox live...

No, because that's socially unacceptable.

-TGP-


well around this community it has been deemed socially unacceptable to put down others using the n*** word

Posted by: dmbfan09
The forums have the rule about not using the word "noob" or any of it's variants and the rule was created by and enforced by the moderators. Bungie employees don't need to follow the rules set by the moderators for their news stories, because this is their site to do with what they wish. Remember, "Bungie controls everything. You have no rights. Play nice."

Hell, I remember one time Frankie created a thread in The Underground that didn't "belong" there and I was so tempted to move it. Obviously, me moving it would have been the wrong thing to do because this is Bungie's site, not mine.


i'm just saying that the leaders of this website are supposed to be more responsible with their actions and words than the users. that's why they have the job.

  • 08.14.2006 6:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: Alien Zulu
i'm just saying that the leaders of this website are supposed to be more responsible with their actions and words than the users. that's why they have the job.

The "noob rule" was put forward by us, the moderators. We enforce it, we decided on it. We still say it sometimes, I know I do. It's more of a ban on derogatory use of the word.

Changing things in the forum code is against the rules, obviously, but Achronos does it. *shrug*

-TGP-

  • 08.14.2006 6:38 AM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

I think you are missing the point. Noob is not allowed to be used because people would use it as an insult. "joo am teh noob" whereas Frankie, mockingly called the developers "noobs". It wasn't an insult, it was a definition of there skill level(albeit a little stupid).

I understand that you think it is hypocritical, but if you had said, in an on-topic post, something like "the guy I was playing was a noob" you wouldn't get blacklisted, the topic probabaly wouldn't get locked.

oh, and TGP am teh n00b.

okay, think of it this way- Noob is not allowed, becasue people use it as a derogatory word. Let's play pretend here, and imagine people have decided "pwn'' also can mean to have intercourse with someone, besides meaning beating someone at a game. Because of this, the moderators would say "pwn is not allowed, as it can be meant to be explicit". Should this stop Frankie from saying "I pwned someone in Halo 3"?. No, because he is using the correct form of the word, and that would be understood. We can't let the word be used in the forums, because people would use it as an explicit term, but Frankie would still be allowed to use it correctly in his update.

[Edited on 8/14/2006]

  • 08.14.2006 6:51 AM PDT
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This is how I see it: using the noob word on the forums is not allowed, but the top stories aren't part of the forums, they are part of Bungie.net.
Just like the forums of groups have their own set of rules, so do the front page and the main forums.
That's how I see it.

This may sound unfair, but if people would actually use the N-word in the correct way, we wouldn't have to enforce the rule in the first place.

  • 08.14.2006 7:32 AM PDT

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Got a cheater? [email]h2cheats@microsoft.com[/email]
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The "no use of n**b" rule came as a part of the "don't create posts directed at other members" rule. The term was being used as an insult; it had become a derogatory term used to demean others here in the forums. Since subtlety works about as well as asking politely here, and that asking people to use the term appropriately was an exercise in futility, the Forum Ninjas took the simpler step of making the term itself forbidden in the forums.

(Note that it was the Ninjas who jointly made this decision, not Bungie. Thank you, Bungie, for trusting our judgement on this.)

Frankie used the term as a joke, and as a jibe at certain maladapted individuals who actually enjoy playing games with a giant and blatant advantage. It was also, I should point out, NOT a forum post; it was a Top Story.

Sadly, I thought that someone would react this way when I read the article; I think I've been hanging around here too much. (Unclean... I feel unclean...) The humourless, the self-righteous, the indignant, and the other forum parasites are just too danged predictable in a forum with TWO MILLION accounts. So I've been thinking of an appropriate response, and here it is.

Lump it if you can't take a joke.

No other response I can make will preserve my sanity.

-- Steve's wondering why the orignal poster didn't also demand the ability to lock, move, and edit posts... 'cause it's a privilege not available to the general membership either and therefor is "unfair". The reasons behind both are the same. The proof is left as an exercise for the reader.

  • 08.14.2006 7:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: Anton P Nym

-- Steve's wondering why the orignal poster didn't also demand the ability to lock, move, and edit posts... 'cause it's a privilege not available to the general membership either and therefor is "unfair". The reasons behind both are the same. The proof is left as an exercise for the reader.


this isn't quite the same thing as moderating the forum

i would understand if you guys had just said "you guys can't use the word responsibly so you're not allowed too"

it's just that i read these preachy posts telling us that it is no different than using a racial slur and it should be completely banished from the english language. like the "big N word." i mean in my mind, and most other peoples, that word is unnacceptable in all circumstances. so if the "little n word" is just the same as the "big N word" then it makes me wonder why they would use it themselves, ever.

i think i'm beginning to see that most of the ninjas do not actually feel this way about it though. so that sheds some light on it for me.

i do however wonder how that particular member of the bnet team (forget who had the rant about big and little n's) feels about the update...

  • 08.14.2006 8:04 AM PDT
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i found the rant that i am referencing

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Resources/Article.aspx?cid =228846

  • 08.14.2006 8:15 AM PDT

-S

Bottom line:

This is Bungie's website. They are the law, and they are above the law. Don't like it? Deal. There are plenty of other websites to visit if you can't accept it.

The fine print:

The "no calling others noob" rule was made, as should have been drilled into your skull by now, by the moderators. That means it's not Bungie's rule. Bungie's opinions may not necessarily reflect those of the moderators. A moderator may take the word extremely seriously. Hell, a good number of you geniuses certainly do. That's why the word is banned from conversation on the forums. Many of you use it as a derogatory term, and many of you perceive it as one.

Regardless, the forums are not the front page. The front page is not a forum. There's no reason for the forum-specific rules to be applied to Frankie's (and other Bungie employees). Bungie are not the ones the Moderators were asked to babysit.

  • 08.14.2006 8:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: Alien Zulu
i would understand if you guys had just said "you guys can't use the word responsibly so you're not allowed too"


Actually, I've seen many people use said word responsibly without getting in trouble. I think what Steve was trying to say was that it was easier to say "You can't use the word" than "You can use the word, but only if you don't use it as an insult." They'd probably have people complaining that they did not mean to use the word as an insult if that were how they worded the rule. Basically, if you are using the word responsibly, the mods won't care. If you're using it irresponsibly, you'll get in trouble, and the rule will be cited.

it's just that i read these preachy posts telling us that it is no different than using a racial slur and it should be completely banished from the english language. like the "big N word." i mean in my mind, and most other peoples, that word is unnacceptable in all circumstances. so if the "little n word" is just the same as the "big N word" then it makes me wonder why they would use it themselves, ever.

Perhaps I am misinterpreting Recon, but I believe he means the use of the "little n word" as a derogatory statement, much like how the "big N word" is used. If everyone used the "little n word" responsibly, and never used it as a derogatory statement, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion, that rule would not be up there, and Recon would probably not have put up that rant. In short, it's not the word itself that is the problem, but how it's used.

  • 08.14.2006 8:16 AM PDT
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i guess another thing i was unaware of was the large gap between the ninjas and the rest of bnet

thanks for clearing some of this stuff up

i'm understanding the scenario much better now

some of you seem like you're snapping at me or maybe even under your breathe calling me an idiot
sorry if i offended anyone or made anyone angry
it wasn't my intention

i think it's also important that i point out again that i am not opposed to the rule at all. some of you keep saying things like "if you don't like the rules then leave"
i have no problem with the rule
it just caught my eye when i saw (what i thought was) such a taboo word, and i thought it should be brought up

[Edited on 8/14/2006]

  • 08.14.2006 8:23 AM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

I was not offended, I understood what you were getting at, I just think you put two and two togethor, and came out with something different than the rest of us, but that is how it goes some times.

I thank you for attempting to argue your side thoughfully, instead of just kicking and screaming that you want it your way. If all members acted like that, it wouldn't be bad to use the word noob, because no one would use it; It is stupid, and a joke.

  • 08.14.2006 8:45 AM PDT

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