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Subject: It stops now! Introducing the member/moderator initiativie.
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Just on another note. I made a thread in the Septagon about who found who to really be their influence. I was amazed at the response I recieved from the people who posted. It was only really then that it struck me how influential we can be on each other. People make others laugh and have a good time, while others can really speak out and have their say quite powerfully, which influences people even more.

  • 08.15.2006 1:56 AM PDT

Do you feel what I feel, see what I see, hear what I hear?
There is a line you must draw between your dream world and reality

Posted by: Flaming_Rainbow
I would probably have to agree with what the OP said. The amount of flaming, spamming etc in these forums is out of hand, though it doesn't mean we can't counter-attack it so to speak. I just think we need a bit more co-operation between the members and moderators, and like Pezza said, not to flame someone when they do something wrong, but to point them in the right direction.


The heard part is doing it without coming off as a "forum cop".

  • 08.15.2006 1:58 AM PDT
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The Frozen Minority - The most infamous clan borne from the Seventh Column.

Just browsing the Halo 3 forum, I think a good summary of that place is when every post has "Please don't flame", "Bring on the flames" or some such comment underneath it.

Should we really have to be in such a mindset that we have simply accepted flaming blatantly and unconditionally as a way of life on these forums?

Should each new person and old person not be able to post an idea without knowing some idiot is going to say "StFu Nubcakez!"?

  • 08.15.2006 1:58 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pezza
Just browsing the Halo 3 forum, I think a good summary of that place is when every post has "Please don't flame", "Bring on the flames" or some such comment underneath it.

Should we really have to be in such a mindset that we have simply accepted flaming blatantly and unconditionally as a way of life on these forums?

Should each new person and old person not be able to post an idea without knowing some idiot is going to say "StFu Nubcakez!"?


StFu Nubcakez!

No, seriously, it has gotten to be a problem. I don't post topics on the Halo 3 forum anymore...just because of all the spam and flaming...it's ridiculous. I seriously think we should ban all the stupid people...and then burn Jack Thompson...

  • 08.15.2006 2:06 AM PDT
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News? Podcasts? Machinima? Active forums? Competitions? Jaffa Cakes!? OMG!
Thee Warriors!

Best. Mod. Ever.

I think the forums are generally good. There are isolated problems but it happens. The real problem I find is within and between groups. They need to be managed.

  • 08.15.2006 2:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: Telec
Remember kids: when Uncle Delta tells you he has sweeties, he isn't lying.

Now get in the van.


The Black Chapter

I came to a thought whilst browsing amongst other game forums. Many other forums are less than half the size, less than half the members but more than 1 and a half timesmore polite.
The forum i was on (found at ogame.org, not linking because that would be like some form of advertisement) was used for the members to talk about strategy, alliances/clans, anything good they had done recently. The problem with this forum is that people always seem to want to post negativly (like i am now) and not to suggest tactics and the like.
It may be that the forums are too large or has too many members, but it needs to be less negative and more positive in its ways of posting.

  • 08.15.2006 5:50 AM PDT
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The Frontline - A group dedicated to help improve the forums as a whole.

Posted by: Pezza
I agree with Mac.

Personally, I would love to see a 'love thy neighbour week' or something. Basically, everyone agrees to not flame each other for that week. Just to see who really does want to make a positive impact and who is here to ruin other peoples fun.

Quite frankly, the best thing that could be done is when you see a flamer, do not flame back. Instead, send a PM saying we are trying to make this a better place for members, please use reasoning instead of abuse and obstinance.

There was a thread in the Flood a few days ago - the older members who know the ropes need to start setting a better example, especially in the problem forums - Optimatch, New Mombassa and Halo 3 forums. Post interesting, new topics, refrain from attacking others and offer assistance where necessary.

Problem members rarely flame someone who is offering help rather than a counterattack.

What about "Hell Week"? That idea came up and hasn't been implemented, and maybe that would make people more aware of what the rules are and how they are to be abided by.

  • 08.15.2006 5:59 AM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

i think we should have a little 'report thread to the online moderators' button, if it is abused, ban the abuser.

  • 08.15.2006 6:01 AM PDT
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No. You should ban every flamer. The ones who are pissed off screaming at their computers, or post schlock like "Fix your -blam!- bungie" over and over. Bant.
If they really don't like the community, or they don't like the company and are just here to start crap, bant.


Posted by: Pezza
Just browsing the Halo 3 forum, I think a good summary of that place is when every post has "Please don't flame", "Bring on the flames" or some such comment underneath it.

Should we really have to be in such a mindset that we have simply accepted flaming blatantly and unconditionally as a way of life on these forums?

Should each new person and old person not be able to post an idea without knowing some idiot is going to say "StFu Nubcakez!"?

  • 08.15.2006 10:22 AM PDT

*Sgt

Posted by: MAC 13720
Wasnt Impurity a mod...?

Anyway, alot of the crap we see is also stuff that isnt "blacklist worthy". Moderators cant just go around blacklisting for the slightest transgression. They have to trust us, and we need to be more trustworthy...


That used to be possible a long time ago. There are simply too many members now for there to be any kind of first name basis.

And its good everybody is trying to put a stop to idiocy here, but its not really possible to just completely obliterate everything bad - not when anybody can come here and type whatever they feel in their insignificant little minds.

  • 08.15.2006 10:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: Flaming_Rainbow
Just on another note. I made a thread in the Septagon about who found who to really be their influence. I was amazed at the response I recieved from the people who posted. It was only really then that it struck me how influential we can be on each other. People make others laugh and have a good time, while others can really speak out and have their say quite powerfully, which influences people even more.


precisely...

  • 08.15.2006 11:16 AM PDT
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You think it got what it takes to be..?.


God forbid you send me one of those I was checking for cool gamers and saw you messages too, I will scream to the top of my lungs and smash this damn screen/BlackBerry to pieces! You've been warned -_-

Posted by: MAC 13720
To all and myself,

Im not a moderator (although i do hope to one day become one). I have no "Ninja" powers or any other tools of enforcement. I say this as an equal, which i believ makes this message more powerful. These great forums are seeing lots of trash. Unprovoked aggression, vulgarity filter dodging with lewdness like the F word. And for what, so you can trash talk fellow members? So much flaming. And for what? Its really disheartening. I dont mean to sound like a "perfect word" pacifist but why the hell is there all of this garbage? To everyone; Why did you join BUNGIE.net?. I'll telll you why, because you love the things that Bungie has created these last few years. Great games like Halo and these forums. You joined because you liked it. Do you think its any different for the people that you flame. No! You joined to have fun on the forums, and now your screwing them up. Nobody wants to here your bickering and flaming, nobody thinks its funny, and everybody wants you gone. You know whats great, when i see "The Great Pretender" participating in a peaceful discussion, which there is alot of. Dont get me wrong, 70% of the time these forums are great thanks to the fantastic performance of our moderators and the conduct of good members like most of us, who just want to have fun. However sometimes the moderators, who are basically just our fellow members, have to do get serious and ban people. I hate seeing that. I hate seeing some idiot make a stupid thread and when i come back five minutes later and it says he blacklisted. Do i hate seeing it? Yes. Did he deserve it? Yes.

So, its time for myself and the many others, as just another fellow "member", to step up to the plate. To all good members reading this, help me. Its going to take more than moderators, its going to take members. Its going to take our shaking heads and our discouragement at the bad members, as well as enforcing powers of the Forum Ninjas to stop the stupidity of flaming and hatred towards each other. We complain about it, we hate it, but yet we do nothing about it. Moderators and members alike will be the team that can make these forums better than they have ever been before. Lets get to it. The forums are fun, the forums are great. But there's just that little bit we can fix it, and I hope we will.

sincerely,
MAC 13720, and hopefully every other "good" member of Bungie.net

PS - and if it helps, I present...the rules


I rather read GJJ's thread The State of Bungie.

  • 08.15.2006 11:21 AM PDT
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Maw

I agree and disagree. I agree that these forums are running a little low on morality, and I agree that the normal (not mods) people should be working to stop it, but after thinking about it, I don't disagree.

  • 08.15.2006 11:45 AM PDT
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That's right. My plumage is brighter than yours.

Posted by: BobBQ
Posted by: impurity
You write funny. *giggles*

And you stink! *giggles more*

Your mom stinks. And you're a disgrace to the clan.


*Stabs Bob*

Take it back!

  • 08.15.2006 12:03 PM PDT

I can look at these forums with an eye that's seen three years of forum activity. Sure, it's a lot less than many people, and I do not by any means claim to be more intelligent than any person who has participated in this thread, but I do claim to have seen some patterns within that 3-year time period of continuous posting on my part.

So here's what I think, in a nutshell. Both the people who say hat the amounts of "extraneous elements" (morons), and the ones who say we've stayed the same since our creation are both correct. You heard me. You're both right. Here's why.

Back when I first joined these forums there was a core group of participants that enjoyed the use of these forums on a regular basis. Things were kept under control. If someone came in and disrupted the peace, Achronos either came in and banned the individual in question, or we pretty much handled it ourselves. Topics were not repeated as much as they are today, but that was due primarily to the size of the member base at that time. I would estimate the maximum amount of people who even had an account at that time and were posters was no more than 100. That was it.

As we all know Bungie.net was upgraded a few years back to allow for the coming of Halo 2. Within a day (literally) we went from a forum less active than The Septagon to a sprawling forum with thousands of posters. According to many people, this is when the forum degradation began.

Now let us say (this is a rough estimate) that 25% of potential forum users will be "bad apples" and contribute negatively ect ect. Earlier I used the example of there being 100 active users that participate in the Original Septagon, Underground, and The Maw. 25% of 100 is, you guessed it, 25 people. At any given time in the early forum history let us say hypothetically that I am correct in this assessment, and there were always about 25 negative contrubuters.

Now take the original 100 users and increase this number to 3000 (Site upgrade forum explosion). For those of you who are bad at math, such as myself, that's 750 people who will contribute negatively. It's the same percent of people but the actual number has increased dramatically.

In essence, what I'm trying to prove is that the retardation (I always wanted to use that word, really.) of the forums has essentially stayed the same over time, but at the same time it has grown. Now, the effects of having larger ammounts of negative contrubuters (AKA, what we like to call idiots having the ability to yell so loud collectively that it strangles the oftentimes quieter voices of reason) is up for debate. I can only guess that this is the explination of what many call the "collapse of community feeling".


-My two cents. Take them for what you will.

[Edited on 8/15/2006]

  • 08.15.2006 12:04 PM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Nice post Banshee Barron- very thorough. I agree wholeheartedly.

  • 08.15.2006 1:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: BobBQ
Posted by: impurity
You write funny. *giggles*

And you stink! *giggles more*

Your mom stinks. And you're a disgrace to the clan.

I think Mac is on to something here; we could do with more nice and less napalm in our interactions.

And we need better jokes.


Yes, we do need better jokes, but that's because you've overkilled all the mom jokes Bob...

Anyway, I have to say, bravo, I joined these forums because I loved Halo, but then there are flamers, trolls and spammers just busting in and ruining the fun. It would be nice if they could settle down and be nowmal people, but they won't, because they suck...So, I guess all we can do is pm a ninja and hope that the flamer/troll/spammer is blacklisted (or perma-banned I hope...)

  • 08.15.2006 2:04 PM PDT

Banshee nailed it. The problems are mainly ones of scale. A lot more users meant a lot more bad apples.

I've witnessed the fall from glory first-hand on the Gears of War forums. They were released a few months ago. A small group joined, became friends, enjoyed themselves, chatted with the developers, and quietly dealt with bad posters. However, as the viral marketing campaign built up and Emergence day was announced, the traffic went up a few hundred times and everything fell apart.

That happened here, just like it happens everywhere. Small forums are always better for discussion and large forums are better for information dissemination.

Indeed, it does stink that b.net has become what it has. This might even be the calm before the storm that Halo 3 will bring.

However, I have faith in Achronos, his tiny team, and huge gorilla to sort things out step by step. He's had a lot of time to think this through and read our thoughts over the past year. I'm sure he's got something coming eventually.

For now, though, the Septagon is pretty nice.

  • 08.16.2006 1:37 PM PDT

Add the email above to your MSN to contact me with emergencies on the forum.

FOR CARNAGE, APPLY WITHIN
Marathon, Myth, and MORE (Under construction)

NO U! A Webcomic.
Mob Of Angry Peasants Chat

Posted by: EastBeast
Indeed, it does stink that b.net has become what it has. This might even be the calm before the storm that Halo 3 will bring.


I don't think B.net is all that different, in fact, may even be milder in recent months.

Some of the spammers this site has seen were WAY worse than anything we have now. Some of the older members here will still shudder if you mention Charizard.

  • 08.16.2006 2:18 PM PDT
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The Frozen Minority - The most infamous clan borne from the Seventh Column.

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Some of the older members here will still shudder if you mention Charizard.


Make it stop, make it stop!

Though, you had to admire his efficiency.

  • 08.16.2006 2:21 PM PDT
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The days before the "Anti-Spam" feature. Oh god that was horrible.

  • 08.16.2006 2:59 PM PDT
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While you make a good post/point it's going to take a lot more than this to stop this from happening. Trust me we need a lot more than that.

  • 08.16.2006 3:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: BobBQ
And we need better jokes.
I would have been your dog, but that mom beat me over the fence...

  • 08.16.2006 3:25 PM PDT

We do need better jokes.
*shudders* Charizard.

[Edited on 8/16/2006]

  • 08.16.2006 6:28 PM PDT

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