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  • Subject: Halo 2 Piracy
Subject: Halo 2 Piracy
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I understand the responsibility a company has to prevent a leak and I realize that once one occurs many actions are taken to minimize damage. I have been a Bungie lover for much longer than probably 95% of the people on these boards and there is one thing I never though I'd hear from Bungie.

You ask to "delete any such posts you encounter." This blatant call for censorship is shameful. Stopping a leak is one thing, but turning the internet into a gustapo-run entity is another.

The joke since the beginning at Bungie has been their quest for "World Domination." It was said that joining Microsoft helped them further this goal. Now that they have started endorsing censorship I believe they have reached their goal in a shameful way.

I don't own an Xbox and I'm still content playing Halo on my Mac. I also will be first in line (again) at my CompUSA to buy Halo 2 (if and when) it is released for my beloved platform. I may disagree with your current ethics, but I also remember the days of yore and love your games. And just for future reference, I'd stop complaining if you finally made a new Marathon game. ;-P

Marathon > Halo

  • 10.19.2004 1:40 AM PDT
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Why can't people just wait for Halo 2 to come out? Bungie spent months and more months of hard work putting this game in stores and alien killes like us to enjoy on Nov. 9. I hate people who don't appreciate Bungie's hard work to make this game as fun as possible.

I will send anything about Halo 2 leak!!!!!!!

  • 10.19.2004 3:51 AM PDT
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PlEASE. The French dont need the dumbass U.S. to liberate them. Youre on crack forcefloe307. "VIVA LA FRANCE!"

  • 10.19.2004 4:03 AM PDT
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Thank you Dajae Avolution my point exactly France is cool and you cant blame a whole country for something like this.

  • 10.19.2004 4:06 AM PDT
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Jesus Test Suject like i said dont go blaming the French its probablly some U.S. guys fault that Halo 2 got leakeed anyways i mean seriously USE YOUR BRAIN.

  • 10.19.2004 4:09 AM PDT
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What makes you think it was a U.S. guy?

  • 10.19.2004 4:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: kojo07
What makes you think it was a U.S. guy?


Bungie: US
Microsoft: US
The firms who send the game out to manifacturing: Probably US...

Maybe some -blam- idiot found out that he wanted to see if anyone would notice... I dunno.. It's still crappy

  • 10.19.2004 6:56 AM PDT
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Well, it's my understanding that the copy of Halo 2 that was uploaded to the net was one of the pre-release copies that Bungie sent to some of the companies that helped finance the Halo 2 project or did something else to help Bungie. From what I remember, isn't that a regular thing that companies do? Send out some pre-release copies to the big backers of a project?

As for who actually did the uploading, I personally think that it was one of the employes from a company in France that received one of the pre-release copies. I take that belief due to the fact that the pirated copy is in French, for the most part.

In any case, thats just my opinion. I don't have much against the French personally. Only thing I have against them is the fact that they refused help from the Allies when Hitler was right outside of their capitol! Even after Hitler took over, the only ones who asked for help were the French Resistance for peak sakes! I mean, did the French actually think they stood a chance agaist the German forces? Especially since Hitler was using a good number of Panzers in that campaign.

Wow, sorry for getting off topic there. I just really get into History and sometimes can't help myself. ^^;

  • 10.19.2004 7:08 AM PDT
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From what ive heard the .xbe was signed retail so it was a final version. I wouldnt think they would send tester games signed retail to people who helped them out.

  • 10.19.2004 7:31 AM PDT
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Hey umm yeah well its a good thing you told me I dont cause my xbox told me a different story last night but ok you are the all knowing Lord fo the Yeah people, I will trust your judgement. Anyhow I thought you had to use a "exploit" like 007 night fire downloader or another "exploit" like mech assault downloader to be able to "flash" anything on to your xbox. Also I heard their are "exploits" or worms that will do the job to. Ohh and with the new Xbox's yeah the process by which you get the new dashboard on your xbox has to allow you to use Xbox live also or the xbox will not run your "exploit". So yes it is still possible to run Xbox live with your Xbox once you are using a new Dashboard. example "EVO. X". But first you must be using the Microsoft Dashboard because you cannot Boot into Live from that Dashboard. So in essence you have well you can have multiple Dashboards on the same Xbox. OHH and umm yeah you are right I dont know a whole lot about modding xboxes becuase all that I care about is that My modded xbox can do what I want. All the other bs doesnt matter to me. Also Bios HAX refers to the changing or moddification of the original Bios of your Xbox. So there you go.

p.s. To be able to up load a Dashboard to your Xbox you must Modify the Bios.

  • 10.19.2004 7:52 AM PDT
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I think that these people should be caught and given the death life in jail. These responsible for this should never be allowed to touch a single game console or game as long as they live. They shall be burned alive. Those responsible shall pay for their crimes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 10.19.2004 8:06 AM PDT

I looked at some pics and the attract movie. I apologize to Bungie. I couldn't help myself.
I want this game so bad it's crazy. But where I found the pics, the guy was openly advertising links to bittorrents or whatever, and boasting about it - "F#K MS and Bungie!"

Enjoy the heat, you scumbag.

"To: (ME)
Subject: Halo2 Pirate [Incident:041018-000751]
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:47:21 +0000


Response
---------------------------------------------------------------
Microsoft Corporation thanks you for your recent correspondence to our
Anti-Piracy team. As an international company that believes in appreciating and protecting intellectual property, Microsoft devotes substantial time and effort towards fighting software piracy, and we appreciate your shared interest in this cause...."

  • 10.19.2004 8:42 AM PDT
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Ill help but i doubt ill ever find anything to spoil it. i mean why would i till i have the game

  • 10.19.2004 8:42 AM PDT
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The people who are responsible for this must be incredibly stupid. What kind of an idiot steals something that is somebody's hard work. I shal hunt them down.

  • 10.19.2004 8:49 AM PDT
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The underground soldiers of Halo and Halo 2 will continue a search for these unloyal fools. And they will pay for the treason they commited. Slowly we are all becoming apart of the story of Halo, and one day that story will no longer be a story, but a reality for everyone to see.

  • 10.19.2004 9:23 AM PDT
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G0DSR34P3R, You must know something that everyone on xbox-scene dont....even the creators of the exploits.

Going on live while your box is exploited (non chip) will download MS patches that will disable exploits.

Since your so smart, please pm me and tell me how this "worm" things works and how you can hax you bios without using an exploit first. You can not Even access the bios of you box without running some sort of exploit and gaining ftp access.

unless you hotswap it into your pc and do your work from their/

  • 10.19.2004 9:25 AM PDT
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Cant edit so I will make another.

I know you can have multiple dashes, I have Avalaunch, EVOX, and MXM. If your box is not chipped you CANNOT go on Xbox Live without removeing the exploit first.

And yes the most common exploits are the 007, Mechassault and splinter cell save game hacks which exploit the xbox which will let you use big fonts.

  • 10.19.2004 9:29 AM PDT
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Wow, that's deep. No, wait, it's not. Remember when Dave Matthews' album Lillywhite Sessions was released? The Band was pissed, and rightfully so. However, they did mention that the can't be mad at their fans for wanting their material. There are a few bad people involved here, they went above and beyond to injure the protected work of a few good souls. Don't be mad at the fans that *happen* to have modded boxes that *happen* to have friends that have received this. This is already happening via Sneakernet. You can't track someone gathering 25 modded boxes together and FTP'ing the code from box to box, so trying to stop the spread is futile.

If someone placed this game in your hands right now, it would be difficult to wait 3 weeks for it. I have heard from several people that have pre-ordered the game, and have illicit copies of it, and it hasn't affected their decision at all. They're just playing it earlier.

It would be wrong of these individuals to post about it and spoil the surprise, but Bungie commands such a loyal following (and did for me till they abandoned my home platform), that I forsee this having a negligible effect. Bungie knew this risk, and instead of being angry, should be grateful they put so much into the Karma bank by being an awesome, non-evil entity that gamers like myself feel beholden to them, and would be guilted into making the purchase no matter what.
Kudos on what I hear to be a great game, and you'll have my $50 in short order.

  • 10.19.2004 9:34 AM PDT
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The response of the Bungie fan community, and indeed much of the online gaming community, has been one of sympathy and support for those at Bungie affected by the French-language copies of Halo 2 that are now circling the world ahead of their official release date, in defiance of international copyright laws, and allowing users to consume expensively-produced entertainment content without paying anything to get it.

However, some, of course, have expressed slightly different sentiments, which is desireable and understandable. Such an outpouring of support for Bungie would mean nothing were it not sincere and well-considered, something impossible to generate if the possibility of differing opinions did not exist.

Unfortunately, many of these expressions of doubt, anger, jubilation and skepticism-- as well as some of the expressions of support-- are not based on careful consideration, knowledge of the market or the law, or any basic insights into human behavior; and many are just appeals to humanity's baser instincts, or to rank paranoia.

So I thought I'd take a moment to address some of them.

The leak helps Microsoft. There have been a number of reasons used to justify this conclusion; some call the leak a kind of unofficial demonstration.

However, the bottom line is that Halo 2 is already one of the most-hyped console games ever, and certainly the most hyped on the Xbox. It had advertisements in movie theaters, for goodness' sake. And if it weren't for Doom 3, it'd probably be the most hyped game coming out in 2004. Some may argue that it still is.

In short, the pirated copies of Halo 2 don't, and cannot, benefit Microsoft. The download is so large, and the hurdles-- namely, modchipping an Xbox-- so high, that nobody who can successfully use it is someone who didn't already know about Halo 2, enough to decide whether or not to purchase it. If they're purchasing it anyway, then they are breaking the law out of sheer impatience; if they were not, then they are doing so with an intent to steal.

And if we rule out the ludicrous idea that someone who doesn't already own an Xbox would purchase one to play a game they got for free, we have to admit that every illegal copy of Halo 2 out there is, at least, a potential loss of a sale for Microsoft.

The leak was caused by Microsoft. This is the one of the more ludicrous variations on the first two myths, which takes as its prerequisite the idea that piracy is good promotion, and that in order to get free publicity (as if Halo 2 wasn't getting enough paid, and, through I Love Bees, enough free or cheap publicity as it is) they leaked a copy of the game.

This really is ludicrous; you have to be an aficionado of conspiracy theories not to break into a smile when you hear it. Next thing we'll be hearing there was a Spec Ops Elite with a Carbine over on the grassy knoll. Next.

Piracy is just a way of markets doing "right-pricing" adjustments. Actually, I don't hear this one much, but it's probably one I'd use myself if I was trying to justify a position that it was OK to pirate Halo 2. So please allow me to burn down my own straw man.

The right-pricing argument-- the idea that people who are pirating something aren't lost revenue because they can't afford the item they are stealing anyway, and that as such this trend should be an indication that a company could, in fact, make more revenue at a lower price point-- does not apply to Xbox games. The Xbox console, even though it loses money, still costs a good three times what a game does, and is a prerequisite for playing a stolen game (not to mention the modchip's cost). And given that Halo and now Halo 2 are widely regarded as system-sellers, reasons to have the box in the first place, the idea that someone can afford an Xbox, but can't afford Halo 2, simply doesn't hold water.

So piracy may indeed, if looked at from a purely economic, rather than legal, point of view, be a legitimate market force to be considered, rather than something to be sued into oblivion-- but even so, it doesn't apply to Halo 2.

Now, let's move on to deconstructing some of the positive statements.

Those who stole, copied, uploaded, downloaded or played Halo 2 are thieves, scum, horrible human beings, and should be whipped, boiled, chopped into bits and jumped on. Let's have some sense of perspective here. Yes, these people have broken the law for no good reason other than the fact that they want to brag about it, to do something they think will be perceived as a successful assault against Microsoft, or because they want to play the game early and/or without paying. But they aren't serial murderers. If you have information that is credible and seems as if it would lead towards catching someone responsible for making the game available for download, or downloading and playing an illegal copy, send it to Microsoft as they've asked.

But I've seen so many incidents in the past week of people saying that a friend of theirs emailed them links to some spoiler screenshots, and then that they're going to report them for piracy. Let's keep a sense of perspective; I doubt Bungie was intending to provoke Two Thousand Betrayals when they asked for help locating pirates. Sure, spoilers suck; but there's a difference between passing on spoiler material, which is bad (and earns you a ban from some forums and chat servers) and uploading or downloading the game (which is a crime punishable by law).

All piracy is illegal and morally wrong, so let's report everyone who does it to Microsoft, get their XBL accounts banned, their websites taken down, and shun them in polite society. Actually, this one isn't so much wrong (which it isn't, really) as it is hypocritical. Because, you see, I've also seen those statements uttered by people known to me to have pirated other software. Sometimes games, sometimes other things. Usually, they've used one of the above arguments to justify why they've done so.

If they're supporting Bungie now because piracy is illegal and morally wrong, they are creating something of a double standard for themselves, which leads me to my final point, which I think explains accurately the community reaction, but which admits that it is not based on morality or legality:

Bungie is a sacred cow. Let's face up to it, perhaps even embrace it. There are few in any gaming community who can claim to never have copied a piece of software, although there are those who can credibly claim to have outgrown it, both philosophically and economically. But the real basis of the outrage here is the respect for Bungie as a developer different from other developers; that somehow pirating a Bungie game is more wrong than pirating anything else. This may be morally and legally indefensible, but in a real and practical way, this describes the attitude of the community.

Bungie fans know how long it's taken to make this game. Through the Weekly Updates, they've seen the process of it going together; perhaps not from as technical a viewpoint as provided by, say, John Carmack's .plan file updates, but one need not be overwhelmed by technical detail to see the care, love and attention showered on the Halo universe by those that work at Bungie. It's apparent in every facet of the first game, and I've no doubt that faith in that attention to detail will be upheld by the sequel.

Those who abhor moral relativism in all its forms will no doubt be repulsed by that argument, and consider it soft on piracy; so be it. But let's not kid ourselves: Bungie is special. Bungie's fans know it. And that is what distinguishes this event from others like it; Bungie fans are taking it personally that someone has decided to steal Halo 2, and that others are spreading material designed to spoil the game for those who will play it later. That their objections are emotional rather than legal or moral should not be looked upon as a criticism of the fans, but rather as a credit to the work of Bungie that has engendered such respect. (Narcogen @ Rampancy.net)

  • 10.19.2004 9:43 AM PDT
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Well put, Master Chief 81, that is the most well-thought-out take on the situation I've seen yet.

That should be a sticky.

  • 10.19.2004 10:07 AM PDT
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U know what guys?

...IM HUNGRY
*stomach rumble*

  • 10.19.2004 10:34 AM PDT
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we'll find the persons responsible, ... blah!

  • 10.19.2004 10:55 AM PDT
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CLAN SWIFT SPARTANS REPORTING FOR DUTY SIRS, Swift Ronin.
on behalf of my clan and my clans allies i would like 2 say that any one caught posting or dl'ing anything from this will be banned i urge other clans 2 do the same

  • 10.19.2004 11:12 AM PDT
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Banned from what?

  • 10.19.2004 11:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: Master Chief 81
The response of the Bungie fan community, and indeed much of the online gaming community, has been one of sympathy and support for those at Bungie affected by the French-language copies of Halo 2 that are now circling the world ahead of their official release date, in defiance of international copyright laws, and allowing users to consume expensively-produced entertainment content without paying anything to get it.

However, some, of course, have expressed slightly different sentiments, which is desireable and understandable. Such an outpouring of support for Bungie would mean nothing were it not sincere and well-considered, something impossible to generate if the possibility of differing opinions did not exist.

Unfortunately, many of these expressions of doubt, anger, jubilation and skepticism-- as well as some of the expressions of support-- are not based on careful consideration, knowledge of the market or the law, or any basic insights into human behavior; and many are just appeals to humanity's baser instincts, or to rank paranoia.

So I thought I'd take a moment to address some of them.

The leak helps Microsoft. There have been a number of reasons used to justify this conclusion; some call the leak a kind of unofficial demonstration.

However, the bottom line is that Halo 2 is already one of the most-hyped console games ever, and certainly the most hyped on the Xbox. It had advertisements in movie theaters, for goodness' sake. And if it weren't for Doom 3, it'd probably be the most hyped game coming out in 2004. Some may argue that it still is.

In short, the pirated copies of Halo 2 don't, and cannot, benefit Microsoft. The download is so large, and the hurdles-- namely, modchipping an Xbox-- so high, that nobody who can successfully use it is someone who didn't already know about Halo 2, enough to decide whether or not to purchase it. If they're purchasing it anyway, then they are breaking the law out of sheer impatience; if they were not, then they are doing so with an intent to steal.

And if we rule out the ludicrous idea that someone who doesn't already own an Xbox would purchase one to play a game they got for free, we have to admit that every illegal copy of Halo 2 out there is, at least, a potential loss of a sale for Microsoft.

The leak was caused by Microsoft. This is the one of the more ludicrous variations on the first two myths, which takes as its prerequisite the idea that piracy is good promotion, and that in order to get free publicity (as if Halo 2 wasn't getting enough paid, and, through I Love Bees, enough free or cheap publicity as it is) they leaked a copy of the game.

This really is ludicrous; you have to be an aficionado of conspiracy theories not to break into a smile when you hear it. Next thing we'll be hearing there was a Spec Ops Elite with a Carbine over on the grassy knoll. Next.

Piracy is just a way of markets doing "right-pricing" adjustments. Actually, I don't hear this one much, but it's probably one I'd use myself if I was trying to justify a position that it was OK to pirate Halo 2. So please allow me to burn down my own straw man.

The right-pricing argument-- the idea that people who are pirating something aren't lost revenue because they can't afford the item they are stealing anyway, and that as such this trend should be an indication that a company could, in fact, make more revenue at a lower price point-- does not apply to Xbox games. The Xbox console, even though it loses money, still costs a good three times what a game does, and is a prerequisite for playing a stolen game (not to mention the modchip's cost). And given that Halo and now Halo 2 are widely regarded as system-sellers, reasons to have the box in the first place, the idea that someone can afford an Xbox, but can't afford Halo 2, simply doesn't hold water.

So piracy may indeed, if looked at from a purely economic, rather than legal, point of view, be a legitimate market force to be considered, rather than something to be sued into oblivion-- but even so, it doesn't apply to Halo 2.

Now, let's move on to deconstructing some of the positive statements.

Those who stole, copied, uploaded, downloaded or played Halo 2 are thieves, scum, horrible human beings, and should be whipped, boiled, chopped into bits and jumped on. Let's have some sense of perspective here. Yes, these people have broken the law for no good reason other than the fact that they want to brag about it, to do something they think will be perceived as a successful assault against Microsoft, or because they want to play the game early and/or without paying. But they aren't serial murderers. If you have information that is credible and seems as if it would lead towards catching someone responsible for making the game available for download, or downloading and playing an illegal copy, send it to Microsoft as they've asked.

But I've seen so many incidents in the past week of people saying that a friend of theirs emailed them links to some spoiler screenshots, and then that they're going to report them for piracy. Let's keep a sense of perspective; I doubt Bungie was intending to provoke Two Thousand Betrayals when they asked for help locating pirates. Sure, spoilers suck; but there's a difference between passing on spoiler material, which is bad (and earns you a ban from some forums and chat servers) and uploading or downloading the game (which is a crime punishable by law).

All piracy is illegal and morally wrong, so let's report everyone who does it to Microsoft, get their XBL accounts banned, their websites taken down, and shun them in polite society. Actually, this one isn't so much wrong (which it isn't, really) as it is hypocritical. Because, you see, I've also seen those statements uttered by people known to me to have pirated other software. Sometimes games, sometimes other things. Usually, they've used one of the above arguments to justify why they've done so.

If they're supporting Bungie now because piracy is illegal and morally wrong, they are creating something of a double standard for themselves, which leads me to my final point, which I think explains accurately the community reaction, but which admits that it is not based on morality or legality:

Bungie is a sacred cow. Let's face up to it, perhaps even embrace it. There are few in any gaming community who can claim to never have copied a piece of software, although there are those who can credibly claim to have outgrown it, both philosophically and economically. But the real basis of the outrage here is the respect for Bungie as a developer different from other developers; that somehow pirating a Bungie game is more wrong than pirating anything else. This may be morally and legally indefensible, but in a real and practical way, this describes the attitude of the community.

Bungie fans know how long it's taken to make this game. Through the Weekly Updates, they've seen the process of it going together; perhaps not from as technical a viewpoint as provided by, say, John Carmack's .plan file updates, but one need not be overwhelmed by technical detail to see the care, love and attention showered on the Halo universe by those that work at Bungie. It's apparent in every facet of the first game, and I've no doubt that faith in that attention to detail will be upheld by the sequel.

Those who abhor moral relativism in all its forms will no doubt be repulsed by that argument, and consider it soft on piracy; so be it. But let's not kid ourselves: Bungie is special. Bungie's fans know it. And that is what distinguishes this event from others like it; Bungie fans are taking it personally that someone has decided to steal Halo 2, and that others are spreading material designed to spoil the game for those who will play it later. That their objections are emotional rather than legal or moral should not be looked upon as a criticism of the fans, but rather as a credit to the work of Bungie that has engendered such respect. (Narcogen @ Rampancy.net)

Real good Master Chief 81. Excellent post. Kudos to you.

  • 10.19.2004 12:40 PM PDT