- Shai Hulud
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- Exalted Mythic Member
With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.
Posted by: Shishka
Posted by: JAY132
But to carry on the argument in a way that shouldn't seem like flaming, my point was this. Halo 2 made $125,000,000 on its first weekend of release (first day?). Other companies (Ubisoft for example) give their extra content away free. I never implied anything as to what I want done. I'm simply saying what I'd like to see as a fan. I didn't even mention anything to do with business structure. And just to inform you, I know a hell of a lot about business structure thank you.
For all you know about business structure, I don't feel you're actually considering what you're saying.
That's fantastic, Shishka. How nice of you to accuse Jay of not knowing anything about business, when you've never met the guy?
Companies such as Ubisoft are hundreds of people strong. That's why they can work on multiple titles at once, on multiple platforms at once.
Relatively speaking, Bungie is a small studio. How many projects do we have right now? One. Given that the job of porting Halo 2 to Vista was given to Pi, you can't call that "our" project.
You've taken to the standard fallacy that all profit goes immediately to some giant tower-vault, where it sits in waiting for Bungie employees to swim through it like water. "You guys made a lot of money on Halo 2. I should get extra content for free!" Sure, we did make a lot of money. That money paid the hard working employees that made the most popular title on Xbox Live. That money bought us our own office so we can work comfortably given our growing numbers and general studio personality. That money pays for the website, and for the employees that work on non-development-related community content. That money goes into work on the next title, as well. The list of places where that money goes after its been made is staggering.
To be fair, Jay never said that any of this wasn't the case. I for one agree with Jay's arguments.
It's not that we don't understand how capitalist businesses work. They work for money, and the money goes to the employees and expanding the business. Repeat. They don't have to work for the fans, but to people such as Jay and myself, Bungie wasn't like this. Not even you can deny that Bungie isn't--at least wasn't--the stereotypical money-making business. They had a fairly large appreciation for their fans. But now look: They give us a few maps to a 2-year-old game and make us pay for it. It's not that we don't understand why one would have to pay for the damn maps, but it didn't seem like the Bungie we were used to. It was cold, and lacked appreciation for the fans.
And although it was his argument, it's not just the maps that cause Jay to think the way he does. There's been plenty of recent events that have basically implied Bungie is saying "-blam!- the fans." The updates for one; they're utter bull-blam!-. Well-written, and Frankie is a cool guy, but they tell us nothing. They might as well not be there. Bungie makes us pay for a few maps, and part of that money goes to paying a guy to not tell us things? That's great.
And you really set a poor example for Bungie, Shishka. Put your ego behind you for once and do your job right. Bungie must have picked you to be a moderator for a reason, but that reason seems to have been lost over the years.
And you did dismiss our work, Jay. You dismissed that the maps were made free after the summer they were released in. You dismissed the fact that we didn't force anyone to buy the maps; you could still play matchmaking without downloading them until the maps were made free, then we made them a mandatory download so we could add them to the playlists. You dismissed the fact that several people came together and worked hard on the DLC maps, and that work costs money. You also dismissed the fact that that money doesn't go straight into "Bungie's Pockets," as fans who think of Bungie as a single entity would like to put it, but instead went to employees that earned money for their hard work, and into the company to fund future projects.
Things companies big enough to have several games being worked on at the same time don't have to think about as much.
And no, you didn't "imply" what you want done. You outright set terms for your fandom. To quote you:
Shishka, if you wanted to show the fans 'real' appreciation, that map pack would've been free from the start, and there would have been more maps made for Halo 2 by now.
"If you really love me, you'll meet this demand." How utterly selfish, and rude.
That's not even on the line of what Jay said. He, nor anyone else, is demanding anything. Sure, we want, but we're not stupid. We know Bungie won't always give us what we want. Don't over-simplify things to make Jay look like an ass.
Instead of answering me in a sensible manner, or taking the debate further, you've attempted to make me look like an arse infront of kids who idolise you. How pathetic. Are you trying to say that we, the fans, the customers, can't voice our opinions even? Can't suggest anything? Because as far as I'm aware, from a 'business' perspective, that's lousy.
I did nothing of the sort. People are allowed to have their opinions. I merely pointed out that you took our work and threw it back in our faces by exacting terms that we "have to meet" if we "really appreciate you." That's not how being a fan works.
You completely overlooked that Jay also stated he loves Halo as well as Bungie. That doesn't really imply that he's throwing their work back in their faces, now does it, Shishka?