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Subject: Lets here a thank you from Bungie...

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

I'm thanking Bungie for everything they've done for us. Who needs thanks from them? What have you guys done for them, besides argue about how the standard they've set, still isn't good enough?

Bungie, I thank you for:
- These forums, in which I've met many good friends and enjoy for at least a few hours, every day.
- Your hard work on Halo 3, every work day.
- Your overseeing of the development of the porting of Halo 2 to the PC.
- Your overseeing of the upcoming Halo movie. It's more than ID did for Doom.. :)
- Creating several closets of Halo swag, which I have purchased many of, by my own free will.. That's right, I'm intentionally supporting Bungie by giving them my money.
- The Seven7h Column groups. They're a great feature to keep the community united.
- The personality of the Bungie staff, and how they're almost always there to help.
- Bungie's involvement in the community, compared to any other game developer I have seen in my life.
- Bungie's willingness to listen to their fans and bring us new playlists for matchmaking, quite frequently.
- Bungie's wise selection of forum moderators, who are a great group of guys that really respect members of the forum and are always helpful.

Thanks Bungie! Keep up the great work!

[Edited on 8/28/2006]

  • 08.28.2006 2:05 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Halo 2 was a thank you, simply because it was a sequal to a very good game that we liked. We thanked them for Halo 1, so in return, they thanked us for thanking them with Halo 2.

The same will happen for Halo 3.

  • 08.28.2006 3:23 PM PDT
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The Frontline - A group dedicated to help improve the forums as a whole.

Posted by: Shai Hulud
Halo 2 was a thank you, simply because it was a sequal to a very good game that we liked. We thanked them for Halo 1, so in return, they thanked us for thanking them with Halo 2.

The same will happen for Halo 3.

How will they thank us for thanking them for Halo 3?! :D

  • 08.28.2006 3:34 PM PDT

Posted by: l iam117 l
Posted by: Shai Hulud
Halo 2 was a thank you, simply because it was a sequal to a very good game that we liked. We thanked them for Halo 1, so in return, they thanked us for thanking them with Halo 2.

The same will happen for Halo 3.

How will they thank us for thanking them for Halo 3?! :D


Gnop 2, no doubt.

  • 08.28.2006 3:55 PM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

Posted by: Shishka
Worse than dismissing what is done for the fans is dismissing what is done, and then attempting to set terms for what you want done. Let alone the part where you basically tell us that, despite being a business, we failed to show appreciation to the fans by not choosing to lose money (that is ultimately spent on things things for the fans), and then telling us how our business structure "should be," like you have any clue.

That's just egotistical.


If we're arguing over ego's mister, you win hands down.

Firstly, I never dismissed anything. I specifically said I love Halo, so there. And to be honest, I'd never dismiss anything Bungie do either. While I'm aware you work there, you don't make the game.

But to carry on the argument in a way that shouldn't seem like flaming, my point was this. Halo 2 made $125,000,000 on its first weekend of release (first day?). Other companies (Ubisoft for example) give their extra content away free. I never implied anything as to what I want done. I'm simply saying what I'd like to see as a fan. I didn't even mention anything to do with business structure. And just to inform you, I know a hell of a lot about business structure thank you.

Instead of answering me in a sensible manner, or taking the debate further, you've attempted to make me look like an arse infront of kids who idolise you. How pathetic. Are you trying to say that we, the fans, the customers, can't voice our opinions even? Can't suggest anything? Because as far as I'm aware, from a 'business' perspective, that's lousy.

Remember, you're not always talking to 12 year-olds dude, you 'accomplished photoshopper' you!

[Edited on 8/28/2006]

  • 08.28.2006 5:06 PM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

I recall GRAW's chapter two costing money ;)

HOnestly, Bungie is the most down-to-earth group of guys I have ever met (honestly, I haven't talked to any other major game companies)

This websit is a great gift, and people like frankie and KP do a lot for us.

And honestly, Shishka is probably the greatest of them all- Not only does he work for bungie, but he also (for free) moderates this forums to keep it more enjoyable for us, the fans.


Your welcome bungie.

  • 08.28.2006 5:15 PM PDT
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In the matter between Jay and Shiska, you're both right in a manner. Both of you have biased opinions, so no one is right in this situation. Yes Bungie is busy and such, but they do have fans/members who feel the need for some kind of acknowledgement. All in all, balancing these two sides is virtually impossible.

Funny how my History class was debating about biased opinions and such. Anyways, thats my conclusion.

  • 08.28.2006 5:59 PM PDT

-S

Posted by: JAY132
But to carry on the argument in a way that shouldn't seem like flaming, my point was this. Halo 2 made $125,000,000 on its first weekend of release (first day?). Other companies (Ubisoft for example) give their extra content away free. I never implied anything as to what I want done. I'm simply saying what I'd like to see as a fan. I didn't even mention anything to do with business structure. And just to inform you, I know a hell of a lot about business structure thank you.


For all you know about business structure, I don't feel you're actually considering what you're saying.

Companies such as Ubisoft are hundreds of people strong. That's why they can work on multiple titles at once, on multiple platforms at once.

Relatively speaking, Bungie is a small studio. How many projects do we have right now? One. Given that the job of porting Halo 2 to Vista was given to Pi, you can't call that "our" project.

You've taken to the standard fallacy that all profit goes immediately to some giant tower-vault, where it sits in waiting for Bungie employees to swim through it like water. "You guys made a lot of money on Halo 2. I should get extra content for free!" Sure, we did make a lot of money. That money paid the hard working employees that made the most popular title on Xbox Live. That money bought us our own office so we can work comfortably given our growing numbers and general studio personality. That money pays for the website, and for the employees that work on non-development-related community content. That money goes into work on the next title, as well. The list of places where that money goes after its been made is staggering.

And you did dismiss our work, Jay. You dismissed that the maps were made free after the summer they were released in. You dismissed the fact that we didn't force anyone to buy the maps; you could still play matchmaking without downloading them until the maps were made free, then we made them a mandatory download so we could add them to the playlists. You dismissed the fact that several people came together and worked hard on the DLC maps, and that work costs money. You also dismissed the fact that that money doesn't go straight into "Bungie's Pockets," as fans who think of Bungie as a single entity would like to put it, but instead went to employees that earned money for their hard work, and into the company to fund future projects.

Things companies big enough to have several games being worked on at the same time don't have to think about as much.

And no, you didn't "imply" what you want done. You outright set terms for your fandom. To quote you:


Shishka, if you wanted to show the fans 'real' appreciation, that map pack would've been free from the start, and there would have been more maps made for Halo 2 by now.

"If you really love me, you'll meet this demand." How utterly selfish, and rude.

Instead of answering me in a sensible manner, or taking the debate further, you've attempted to make me look like an arse infront of kids who idolise you. How pathetic. Are you trying to say that we, the fans, the customers, can't voice our opinions even? Can't suggest anything? Because as far as I'm aware, from a 'business' perspective, that's lousy.

I did nothing of the sort. People are allowed to have their opinions. I merely pointed out that you took our work and threw it back in our faces by exacting terms that we "have to meet" if we "really appreciate you." That's not how being a fan works.

Remember, you're not always talking to 12 year-olds dude, you 'accomplished photoshopper' you!

A fact that fills me with increasing disappointment when I read posts like these.

  • 08.28.2006 6:01 PM PDT
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I dont ask for much, but when that day comes, and trust me it will, i would like to be the first one to ride the slingshot. Ive heard its good.

  • 08.28.2006 6:11 PM PDT
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  • Intrepid Mythic Member

For Carnage, Apply Within.

I have returned from the Untamed Lands. MOAP is dead.

If you can't say thank you Bungie, at least give my mommy back :*(

  • 08.28.2006 6:39 PM PDT

-S

Posted by: EL
If you can't say thank you Bungie, at least give my mommy back :*(


Not until I'm done drilling her.

...

Grilling her. I meant grilling.

  • 08.28.2006 6:42 PM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Posted by: Shishka
Posted by: EL
If you can't say thank you Bungie, at least give my mommy back :*(


Not until I'm done drilling her.

...

Grilling her. I meant grilling.



Tsk. Tsk. Shishka.

  • 08.28.2006 7:00 PM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
He's making it increasingly difficult to keep up the story that he really doesn't eat babies.


But we can confirm that he's real, right?

  • 08.28.2006 7:03 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

You've got to think crazy, of course, because you only get innovation by refining insanity. - Jason Jones

Now how many kids can go to their moms and ask if shishka drilled her? answer: NONE. Thats what bungie can give us right there and do day in and out. They give us these games, the forums and the never ending your mom jokes.

While the community has gone south since the announcement of halo 2 as far as company/fan interaction we do still get interaction which is more than alot of game companies can say they do for their fans. Im not wanting an thank you all i want are great games and for my mom not to get made fun of.



[Edited on 8/28/2006]

  • 08.28.2006 7:04 PM PDT
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I just finished reading Shishkas rant. I know it's not the hip thing to say, but it's posts like that, that make me admire the guy.

[Edited on 8/29/2006]

  • 08.29.2006 12:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: Greg of Halo
I just finished reading Shishkas rant. I know it's not the hip thing to say, but it's posts like that, that make me admire the guy.


*salutes Shishka*

  • 08.29.2006 1:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: Shishka
Fair enough.

Instead of working on Halo 3, overseeing the development of a PC port of Halo 2, overseeing work on a Halo movie, creating several closets worth of Halo swag (including posters, fluid containers, t-shirts, school gear, pens, a long-lived action figure line and more), and instead of making a website that acts as a link between the fans and the developers, an array of forums for discussing Bungie related topics, and giving the fans the ability to run their own customizable groups for their own discussion needs...

We'll write a "thank you" note.

Please. Don't you think you're being a little greedy? You may think it doesn't sound like much to ask us to write some kind of formal "thank you," but what you've done is dismiss everything we do for the fans because it doesn't feel enough to you like we worship you. It's actually fairly insulting, if you ask me, to just shrug off map packs, contests, news articles, and the like because you want some grovelling letter of appreciation.


I think you're over looking as to what he is saying. Bungie profits fairly well from all of what you mentioned. Oddly enough a map pack was the least that could have been done for a game that was hyped and bugged a bit too much. But every 2 weeks you look at your paycheck and should be reminded , as i am, that it is from the customer. The reason YOU and OTHERS can support yourself is ultimatly from the customer. So in my opinion the OP is stating all he wants is a thank you, NOT something that takes time from your day. YOU make it sound like a chore ,to say thank you, would an old lady say the same thing after you helped her across the street ???



WOW shiska you helped me acrossed the street ; now piss off !

As for the website, i'm trying to think of a "GAME" company of whom doesn't have a website with forums ... odd

So the way i took it was ; "Hey we made some action figures and a tee shirt you can purchase off the website we made you , and be sure to drive down to the local store and pick up more of our worthless "swag" !

It took you more time to act like your usual grovelling self than just to write two words "Thank you"

  • 08.29.2006 3:31 AM PDT

Why should they thank us...They made the game...we would deserve a thank you if halo sucked and we still bought it....but it is awesome.

  • 08.29.2006 5:29 AM PDT

Posted by: Johnrap
Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
7/7/07 Bungie.net Barbeque ftw.


Good idea. You know how they do that Guiness thing where they like break the record for the most Guiness drank in a day on St. Patty's day. We should break the largest gaming LAN party record on 7/7/07. We can have like LANs set up all around the world to play Halo 2, and eat barbecue, on 7/7/07.

I can definitely host a Staten Island LAN that day.


This idea deserves a thread of it's own johnrap.

*Wink Wink*

  • 08.29.2006 5:30 AM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Posted by: Shishka
Posted by: JAY132
But to carry on the argument in a way that shouldn't seem like flaming, my point was this. Halo 2 made $125,000,000 on its first weekend of release (first day?). Other companies (Ubisoft for example) give their extra content away free. I never implied anything as to what I want done. I'm simply saying what I'd like to see as a fan. I didn't even mention anything to do with business structure. And just to inform you, I know a hell of a lot about business structure thank you.


For all you know about business structure, I don't feel you're actually considering what you're saying.


That's fantastic, Shishka. How nice of you to accuse Jay of not knowing anything about business, when you've never met the guy?

Companies such as Ubisoft are hundreds of people strong. That's why they can work on multiple titles at once, on multiple platforms at once.

Relatively speaking, Bungie is a small studio. How many projects do we have right now? One. Given that the job of porting Halo 2 to Vista was given to Pi, you can't call that "our" project.

You've taken to the standard fallacy that all profit goes immediately to some giant tower-vault, where it sits in waiting for Bungie employees to swim through it like water. "You guys made a lot of money on Halo 2. I should get extra content for free!" Sure, we did make a lot of money. That money paid the hard working employees that made the most popular title on Xbox Live. That money bought us our own office so we can work comfortably given our growing numbers and general studio personality. That money pays for the website, and for the employees that work on non-development-related community content. That money goes into work on the next title, as well. The list of places where that money goes after its been made is staggering.


To be fair, Jay never said that any of this wasn't the case. I for one agree with Jay's arguments.

It's not that we don't understand how capitalist businesses work. They work for money, and the money goes to the employees and expanding the business. Repeat. They don't have to work for the fans, but to people such as Jay and myself, Bungie wasn't like this. Not even you can deny that Bungie isn't--at least wasn't--the stereotypical money-making business. They had a fairly large appreciation for their fans. But now look: They give us a few maps to a 2-year-old game and make us pay for it. It's not that we don't understand why one would have to pay for the damn maps, but it didn't seem like the Bungie we were used to. It was cold, and lacked appreciation for the fans.

And although it was his argument, it's not just the maps that cause Jay to think the way he does. There's been plenty of recent events that have basically implied Bungie is saying "-blam!- the fans." The updates for one; they're utter bull-blam!-. Well-written, and Frankie is a cool guy, but they tell us nothing. They might as well not be there. Bungie makes us pay for a few maps, and part of that money goes to paying a guy to not tell us things? That's great.

And you really set a poor example for Bungie, Shishka. Put your ego behind you for once and do your job right. Bungie must have picked you to be a moderator for a reason, but that reason seems to have been lost over the years.

And you did dismiss our work, Jay. You dismissed that the maps were made free after the summer they were released in. You dismissed the fact that we didn't force anyone to buy the maps; you could still play matchmaking without downloading them until the maps were made free, then we made them a mandatory download so we could add them to the playlists. You dismissed the fact that several people came together and worked hard on the DLC maps, and that work costs money. You also dismissed the fact that that money doesn't go straight into "Bungie's Pockets," as fans who think of Bungie as a single entity would like to put it, but instead went to employees that earned money for their hard work, and into the company to fund future projects.

Things companies big enough to have several games being worked on at the same time don't have to think about as much.

And no, you didn't "imply" what you want done. You outright set terms for your fandom. To quote you:


Shishka, if you wanted to show the fans 'real' appreciation, that map pack would've been free from the start, and there would have been more maps made for Halo 2 by now.

"If you really love me, you'll meet this demand." How utterly selfish, and rude.


That's not even on the line of what Jay said. He, nor anyone else, is demanding anything. Sure, we want, but we're not stupid. We know Bungie won't always give us what we want. Don't over-simplify things to make Jay look like an ass.

Instead of answering me in a sensible manner, or taking the debate further, you've attempted to make me look like an arse infront of kids who idolise you. How pathetic. Are you trying to say that we, the fans, the customers, can't voice our opinions even? Can't suggest anything? Because as far as I'm aware, from a 'business' perspective, that's lousy.

I did nothing of the sort. People are allowed to have their opinions. I merely pointed out that you took our work and threw it back in our faces by exacting terms that we "have to meet" if we "really appreciate you." That's not how being a fan works.


You completely overlooked that Jay also stated he loves Halo as well as Bungie. That doesn't really imply that he's throwing their work back in their faces, now does it, Shishka?

  • 08.29.2006 7:31 AM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

Ego. Ego. Ego.

I'm not out to try and make Shishka look like an arse (one could argue that he's done that himself). He's the boss as he likes to think, so I've got to respect that. It's just a shame that what I said got taken completely out of context.

As far as me being a Bungie fan, I'll admit this. If I were to ever meet Martin O'Donnell, I'd probably go weak around the knees. In the same manner as I would if I met other talented musicians (such as Steely Dan for example). Joe Staten, Frank O'Connor etc, I'd be the same. I love Bungie in the same way I love Star Trek for example. I'm a huge geek, and not ashamed to admit it. I have no problem with the job they do (if I make suggestions, I don't expect them to be implemented into the game; I'm 20, not 10). I love taking part in debate, but I also realise the way I must seem on here makes me look arrogant sometimes. I apologise for that, but if you knew me on Live, you'd know me better.

Shishka (Chad, I hate using online names when being serious), I did not pass over the fact that Bungie made Quality, Classy maps. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn't necessarily have had to pay for them from the start. Bungie made a lot of money from Halo 2 at the point of the maps shipping, so I for one was disappointed. I appreciate that had I waited a couple of months, they were made free, but being a fan as big as I am, I couldn't wait, and I just feel that Microsoft then, took advantage of that. (just to note, I also bought the map disc as well to get the extra's, where as many people simply just went to Team Xbox or found torrents).

The overall big point I'm trying to say here, that as a customer, I'm unhappy with the way things are run around (more to the point, the way people are treated). And the sad truth is, instead of quoting me here and saying 'well let's talk, here your ideas ('your' as in everyone here), I'm probably just going to get quoted and told 'tough, go leave'. That's what I expect, and that's why I'm angry and saddened at what this place has become. No pleasure can be had out of these forums anymore, none. Have a strong debate, you get told you're flaming. Have a laugh or a joke in a way that doesn't mention Halo, Marathon or Myth, then you're most likely going to get banned. It's sad, and a damn shame.

  • 08.29.2006 10:16 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Jay, while I'm more inclined to agree with you, I can understand where both you and Shishka are coming from. I think the problem lies with the chosen mode of communication. If this discussion were to take place over Live or through some other medium, I'm sure the conversation would be more intelligible. Unfortunately, on these forums, it comes across as nothing more than a pissing contest. Anyone familiar with the Bungie.net forums knows how these turn out.

That being said, my only question is, now that Bungie is under the parent company of Microsoft, how much power does Bungie actually have in determining what it offers to the public, free or for-profit?

The answer doesn't change what Bungie used to be, but it might offer some insight as to why things are the way they are now.

  • 08.29.2006 11:32 AM PDT

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