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Subject: Riding the Pickle

There's been a major recurring theme I've seen here in The Septagon for several weeks. Months in fact. There's been a lot of mumbling from many people about this "mod fascination" that's really beginning to stomp on the nerves. I've seen a lot of arguments presented, hell almost every other thread it seems becomes a flash point for some pretty heated discussion on the subject.

And I've never, not once, seen someone present a real reason why we're getting so many mod related threads lately. It's not just a weekly thing, either. We're getting one or two every day. Sure, the search feature is great but apparently no one is willing to use it.

The answer not for lack of ideas, either, it's pretty obvious. It's just a matter of who is willing to say it. The reason we're seeing this recurring theme here is not because of some sudden random infatuation. The reason is, they're being fed.

Troll: to fish by trailing a lure or baited hook from a moving boat b : SEARCH, LOOK <trolling for sponsors>; also : PROWL

Gentlemen, we've got trolls.

Whenever a thread directed at a moderator is created, they almost always get a response for a mod. You know, as much as I'm sure how many PMs a moderator gets a day might interest people, it is not what this forum was designed for. It doesn't pertain to this forum at all, and is simply not relevant. We're here to talk about improving this site, and the community; not to be talking about our internet egos. Not to mention, if the thread in question had been about anyone else I have no doubt in my mind that it would be locked immediately.

Moderators, I respect the fact that you are indeed human beings and are subject to human emotions just like anyone else. Honestly, I'd probably be inclined to post in such a thread too if I were a mod. But, the thing is, I'm not one. You are. I don't have to worry about what I say (within the rules) because I don't have hundreds of people clinging to every word I say. People are creating these threads because they can get away with something against the rules since they are appealing to authority just the right way. Flattery, it works wonders on even the best of people. Restraint can do the same.

The only way this is going to dwindle in popularity is if we stop feeding the trolls. Don't give people the attention they crave, it just gives them motive to go about it again. The proverbial foot needs to be put down on moderator baiting threads. You guys have a lot more power with your words and with your influence than you did when you were just normal members. Please, use that power wisely.

  • 08.29.2006 2:27 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

News? Podcasts? Machinima? Active forums? Competitions? Jaffa Cakes!? OMG!
Thee Warriors!

Best. Mod. Ever.

I shall second that!
And get a beer...
*Two minutes later*
Indeed, Ninjas do have much infulence and they should use it wisely. Not that I'm accusing them of anything. I think they do things fine.

Oh, and nice thread name...

[Edited on 8/29/2006]

  • 08.29.2006 2:32 PM PDT

*Sgt

Have a sticky about it or something...

"PM moderators or any other knowledgeable member about any moderator-related questions you have. Don't make a thread!"

[Edited on 8/29/2006]

  • 08.29.2006 2:34 PM PDT
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I HOOPE SHISKA SEES THIS!!11

  • 08.29.2006 2:36 PM PDT

Posted by: Johnrap
I agree, but where does the pickle come in?


It was a term used by Frankie in one of his updates a while back. -blam!- innuendo used in a joking tone. I used it to illustrate people using flattery to be "popular" with the moderators. I thought it was fitting.

As interesting as that all is- back to the point at hand, my friend.

[Edited on 8/29/2006]

  • 08.29.2006 2:37 PM PDT

Posted by: Banshee Barron

Moderators, I respect the fact that you are indeed human beings and are subject to human emotions just like anyone else.


This was your first mistake.

  • 08.29.2006 2:37 PM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

I agree, I think.

The various mod-related topics were fun for a while, but they take up an awful lot of space and don't do much outside of providing me with a place to be silly.

  • 08.29.2006 2:39 PM PDT

Posted by: Johnrap
EDIT: Wait a second...how do we know this isn't a mod baiting thread?


Because I'm subtly criticizing their methods? Wouldn't the point be to try to be "buds" with them? If anything, this will anger some mods, but that's not the point. The point is that hopefully, open minded mods will take this advice and work to improve themselves, and ultimately this forum in general.

[Edited on 8/29/2006]

  • 08.29.2006 2:40 PM PDT

Posted by: sir_brilliant
Posted by: Banshee Barron

Moderators, I respect the fact that you are indeed human beings and are subject to human emotions just like anyone else.


This was your first mistake.


As much as I enjoy reading such posts, because they are funny, I think that they are adding to the moderator infatuation on these forums as well. It's just that the jokes are starting to get... stale. It was great the first couple of times but now... it's taking threads off topic a lot more than they should. The mods are great, sure- but we should be focusing on the quality of the community, among other things which are of greater importance.

I can't claim to be free of it myself, either, who doesn't like to poke fun at your boss? And Sir Brilliant, don't take this personally, either. I hate to use your post as an example. I hold you in high esteem; and your work on the Bathroom Reader was great. That being said, it was a chance to prove a point that I decided to take.

[Edited on 8/29/2006]

  • 08.29.2006 2:50 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

I'm going to agree on the part of the fact that there are too many "what's it like to be a mod"-esque threads. One is probably too many. However, I can't say I'm that angry with the "how do I become a mod" threads, since that won't go away until people start using the search engine (and it seems that so far members aren't using it to look for old topics). People are curious about how they can gain power, and they think it's easier to ask up front than to wait patiently until someone else asks. I suppose the whole thing isn't too surprising to me. It'd be nice if it would stop, but it won't. I guess all that could be done is for the moderators to state that threads concerning moderators (i.e. "how do I become a mod;" "who is the coolest mod;" etc.) be outlawed. But then again, is it really fair to punish someone for having a question? Personally, I think what should be done is that the threads concerning moderators (i.e. "who is the coolest mod;" "how many PMs do the mods get per day;" "what kind of threads do mods like;" etc.) not be allowed, while threads concerning how moderators are chosen ("how do I become a moderator") be allowed only until the question is answered, at which point it is locked.

  • 08.29.2006 3:04 PM PDT

Phrog pilots, reckless and free. We would strap into our birds, set the engines on fire, and leave these earthly bonds with a chorus of WHOP WHOP WHOP. Akin to beating your chest and howling in defiance at the rest of the world.
Phrogs eye view
sockbaby

The problem with some of the threads about moderators is avoiding the random ass-kissery while not coming across like a jerk for not responding. It's a delicate balance sometimes.

  • 08.29.2006 3:09 PM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
I think that I understand the reasoning behind this.... but still.

I know that we're being requested to post more to explain our actions (when blacklisting or locking). We're also being asked to post our views and opinions on various discussions.

But we're NOT supposed to answer questions about.... moderating?


I fail to see how threads/posts involving personal moderator questions have anything to do with with the operation of this community. In my mind, they do not belong here as per forum rules and people are posting them via a loophole. The said loophole often coming in the form of flattery.

[Edited on 8/29/2006]

  • 08.29.2006 3:10 PM PDT
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I think we should start locking those threads. Admitted, I too am guilty of posting replies. Perhaps it's time "mod threads" fall under the category of "threads about specific users". Still, there isn't really that much wrong with people asking how to become a moderator, so I suppose such threads should still be allowed.

This thread= good thread (for it is about the rules, regarding mod threads)

Who is the coolest mod?= bad thread (it's about specific users)

Something like that perhaps?

[Edited on 8/29/2006]

  • 08.29.2006 3:10 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Barron, that's actually somethign I haven't thought of... although I should have guessed at it. I always thought that threads like that persist because they're "on-topic," but now you've shown why they're not.

Thanks.

  • 08.29.2006 3:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Johnrap
EDIT: Wait a second...how do we know this isn't a mod baiting thread?

Because Barron is a moron that isn't smart enough to bait mods, lol. But really, "Riding the Pickle" doesn't sound like "Look at me!"

About leadership for everyone
The real leader has no need to lead - he is content to point that way.

The final test of a leader is that he leaves behind him in other men the conviction and the will to carry on.... The genius of a good leader is to leave behind him a situation which common sense, without the grace of genius, can deal with successfully.

The quality of leadership, more than any other single factor, determins the success or failure of an organization.

I used to think that running an organization was equivalent to conducting a symphony orchestra. But I don't think that's quite it; it's more like jazz. There is more improvisation.

Hell, there are no rules here--we're trying to accomplish something.

For moderators of bnet
Leadership is understanding people and involving them to help you do a job. That takes all of the good characteristics, like integrity, dedication of purpose, selflessness, knowledge, skill, impiacability, as well as determination to not be common.

Lead and inspire people. Don't try to manage and manipulate people. Inventories can be managed, but people must be lead.

The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chose field of endeavor.

To end all of egoism: My favorite quote
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

  • 08.29.2006 3:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Josher 35
For moderators of bnet
Leadership is understanding people and involving them to help you do a job. That takes all of the good characteristics, like integrity, dedication of purpose, selflessness, knowledge, skill, impiacability, as well as determination to not be common.

Lead and inspire people. Don't try to manage and manipulate people. Inventories can be managed, but people must be lead.

If you are saying we mods are leaders, we are not. And i ain't much of source of inspiration either. But perhaps I misunderstood your post.

Being a moderator, is like being an apple janitor. While all the other apples are green, you as the janitor apple, wear your nice red uniform, and you're shiny, you're a shiny red apple. But in truth, you're still an apple like the rest, an apple that also cleans the place up and looks after the place.

[Edited on 8/29/2006]

  • 08.29.2006 3:51 PM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

People make threads about Moderators because they want to see how many White-texted and Custom Avatar responses they get. Then it give them a warm and fuzzy feeling inside because "Shishka made a joke in my thread!" Or "Omg, I can't believe Yoozel said that!"

It's sometimes hero worship. Other times, like now, it's directed at a community problem that needs fixing. But more or less, these are the reasons I've come up with for why threads are made about moderators (I believe I've posted this before):

1.) Said user has a question about the moderators (i.e. "What do you to become one?")

2.) Said user has a question that they believe only the moderators can answer (i.e."I need help, can you guys please respond?")

3.) Said user has a Problem with how you guys work (i.e. "You do this good, but you need to improve on this thing.")

How is this solved? PM's to moderators are always encouraged, but to be honest sometimes people want the community to discuss the issue as well, or the moderators simply don't reply to PM's. This makes some users feel like their questions fall on deaf ears.

I think we all need to realize: Hero worship is alive and well on this site. As long as people look up to you (moderators) there will be threads about you, because they're interested in you.

Maybe we should crack down on it indeed. Or make threads of interest that are accesible for discussion.

  • 08.29.2006 3:56 PM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

I think we need a way to submit something to HFCS, so that all moderators can read it. That way, we can spam their forums with stuff like this, keep it private, and stop having to say

You don't ask to be in mod club;
mod club asks to be in you


not that saying that isn't fun ;)

[Edited on 8/29/2006]

  • 08.29.2006 4:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: just another fan
If you are saying we mods are leaders, we are not. And i ain't much of source of inspiration either. But perhaps I misunderstood your post.

Being a moderator, is like being an apple janitor. While all the other apples are green, you as the janitor apple, wear your nice red uniform, and you're shiny, you're a shiny red apple. But in truth, you're still an apple like the rest, an apple that also cleans the place up and looks after the place.

Well like it or not even if you consider youself a member and nothing more, that doesn't mean other people do. What I was trying to say is that the moderators of bnet are the leaders. Besides the power to ban, lock, pin, and all that other fun (not really fun from what I've heard) stuff, moderators have the power of people looking at them for leadership. Look at the beginning of my quotes and you should find one about how people look up to leaders for everything. Show a good example and don't let your egotistic-self get in the way.

Note: I've just returned after months of not being on at a time, so I'm sorry if this insults some moderators, but from what I've seen for the past few days, things like this need to be said.

[Edited on 8/29/2006]

  • 08.29.2006 4:03 PM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

ah, josher, but other people's delusions does not a leader make.

I honeslty have less respect/admiration for mods I rarely see than for members like Mabian, Zee jolly roger, and that guy, banshee, banshee something, aw screw it, he's a jerk ;)

[Edited on 8/29/2006]

  • 08.29.2006 4:04 PM PDT

The people that have a question should PM a moderator. Or a sticky of sort should be made explaining that you can find everything at HFCS.

  • 08.29.2006 4:05 PM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

Yeah, but Yoozel already made the Moderator FAQ, it should have staid stickyed.

  • 08.29.2006 4:07 PM PDT

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